I never quite understood why they rebranded the whole system so generically "Metro" when two thirds of the transit agencies in the country seem to share that moniker. I recall the argument was to make branding consistent across busses and trains, but that still seems a poor choice. I could go for a return to Bi-State.
The font here is not exactly the same, but this metro reimagined banner points to the new design. I think the new logo is great. Clean, modern, and NOT red white and blue. And it's sneaky with the STL forming an M, and it's off center inside the circle, which makes it kind of awkward, which I find endearing. I hope the trains and buses get painted just like that logo, sort of beige/cream with red and dark gray.
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There's change coming to the Bi-State Development Board with a new Illinois law coming into effect giving St. Clair County four seats on the ten person board. Madison County is reduced to just one seat on a permanent basis. Previously, the two counties each had two permanent seats with a fifth being passed back and forth as terms ended. Both Missouri and Illinois have five seats each on the ten person board.
Pritzker and St. Clair County's Chairman Kern view it as being equitable in terms of Illinois seat allotment since Madison County isn't apart of Bi-State (Madison County operates Madison County Transit), but St. Louis County Executive Page is viewing it as a power grab. St. Louis City and County have a similar rotating relationship in terms of that remaining fifth seat similarly to how St. Clair County and Madison County used to operate.
As for the other players, Mayor Krewson seems indifferent and Madison County Board Chairman Prenzler views it as a power grab from Madison County, but also has no comment on Page's concerns.
You can read more here:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 0c581.html
Pritzker and St. Clair County's Chairman Kern view it as being equitable in terms of Illinois seat allotment since Madison County isn't apart of Bi-State (Madison County operates Madison County Transit), but St. Louis County Executive Page is viewing it as a power grab. St. Louis City and County have a similar rotating relationship in terms of that remaining fifth seat similarly to how St. Clair County and Madison County used to operate.
As for the other players, Mayor Krewson seems indifferent and Madison County Board Chairman Prenzler views it as a power grab from Madison County, but also has no comment on Page's concerns.
You can read more here:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 0c581.html
A couple things...
Metro is not ignoring the "pressing" issues of security. They are working to secure the system better. They, too, are working on imaging. People seem to think that companies/organizations/enterprises cannot multi-task (an do) anymore. So frustrating. Just like city-naysayers will often say things like ... "The Mayor announces new development BUT what about crime?" - seriously, that sounds so ridiculous, but you see that everywhere.
The new imaging has been in works for awhile and I think the system needs an overhaul on design. The logo now alright - but the paint scheme on the trains and buses could use a little update. I think what the new CEO is taking STL's Metro in a new direction... let me explain... I always felt that Metro/Bi-State ran (imaging and marketing) more like the Zooline Railroad than a large scale big city mass transit system (if that makes sense). The cartoon(y) looking imaging and marketing just never looked right to me. The system needs a new look and new way of operating. The are changing this by implementing the new/redesigned bus routes (in effect now) and then the rail system. It seems that the new CEO will finally change the image as what it is - a large scale major metropolitan transit system. This new logo (if this is the one they go with - and is in terrible print form) looks like a Metro Rail logo in Europe and other US Cities. I prefer it - if this is the one they choose. One of the new imaging plans I hope they are working on is... automated announcement systems on the rail system. The train operators are operators - and sound ridiculous and you cannot even understand them - others have accents you cannot decipher and some think they are radio disc jockeys. I hate it!
The STL PD writer (in that article) is obviously an anti-transit user and anti-supporter. He took/got a photo from somewhere/someone of one of the new logo designs and went with it (due to the fact that Metro has not released any new logos/schemes yet) and wrote that ridiculous article about how they are "ignoring" transit security and "fixing" it with a new logo.... good grief... welcome to today's media writers. Shameful.
Overall, I would like to see Metro implement the new system and a new marketing campaign. I would like them to just drop the name "Metrolink" and call the entire system just "Metro" which most people do anyway. I also think Metro needs to get MODOT involved in new signage on the highways where Metro Park and Ride Lots are for both Bus/Rail. I really think that the existing little signs that read "Metrolink Exit 18A" are ridiculous.
We are also not the only city wanting to change the image of their rail/bus systems. I know that Houston is doing the same right now and Atlanta's Marta is changing their name and imaging to "The ATL" because of negative perceptions among people with the name Marta and crime issues.
Metro is not ignoring the "pressing" issues of security. They are working to secure the system better. They, too, are working on imaging. People seem to think that companies/organizations/enterprises cannot multi-task (an do) anymore. So frustrating. Just like city-naysayers will often say things like ... "The Mayor announces new development BUT what about crime?" - seriously, that sounds so ridiculous, but you see that everywhere.
The new imaging has been in works for awhile and I think the system needs an overhaul on design. The logo now alright - but the paint scheme on the trains and buses could use a little update. I think what the new CEO is taking STL's Metro in a new direction... let me explain... I always felt that Metro/Bi-State ran (imaging and marketing) more like the Zooline Railroad than a large scale big city mass transit system (if that makes sense). The cartoon(y) looking imaging and marketing just never looked right to me. The system needs a new look and new way of operating. The are changing this by implementing the new/redesigned bus routes (in effect now) and then the rail system. It seems that the new CEO will finally change the image as what it is - a large scale major metropolitan transit system. This new logo (if this is the one they go with - and is in terrible print form) looks like a Metro Rail logo in Europe and other US Cities. I prefer it - if this is the one they choose. One of the new imaging plans I hope they are working on is... automated announcement systems on the rail system. The train operators are operators - and sound ridiculous and you cannot even understand them - others have accents you cannot decipher and some think they are radio disc jockeys. I hate it!
The STL PD writer (in that article) is obviously an anti-transit user and anti-supporter. He took/got a photo from somewhere/someone of one of the new logo designs and went with it (due to the fact that Metro has not released any new logos/schemes yet) and wrote that ridiculous article about how they are "ignoring" transit security and "fixing" it with a new logo.... good grief... welcome to today's media writers. Shameful.
Overall, I would like to see Metro implement the new system and a new marketing campaign. I would like them to just drop the name "Metrolink" and call the entire system just "Metro" which most people do anyway. I also think Metro needs to get MODOT involved in new signage on the highways where Metro Park and Ride Lots are for both Bus/Rail. I really think that the existing little signs that read "Metrolink Exit 18A" are ridiculous.
We are also not the only city wanting to change the image of their rail/bus systems. I know that Houston is doing the same right now and Atlanta's Marta is changing their name and imaging to "The ATL" because of negative perceptions among people with the name Marta and crime issues.
^ Very, very well said.
It's very much possible for Metro (and the City for that matter) to walk and chew gum at the same time so to speak.
I'm generally a pretty big fan of Tony Messenger, but I also thought he missed the mark on that piece. Myself and other readers here are intelligent enough to get his point, but the whole "forget the crime, let's do a new logo instead" angle is just going to feed the ignorant bottom feeders in the exburbs (basically Tony's neighbors lol) who haven't seen the inside of a MetroLink train in 15 years, if ever.
I think a rebranding (and a system overhaul like Reimagined) are very important steps forward for Metro. I'm still of the mind that security issues won't really fix themselves until the system has a unified, single police force...but I don't think the County (Belmar specifically) wants to let their mitts off the controls.
It's very much possible for Metro (and the City for that matter) to walk and chew gum at the same time so to speak.
I'm generally a pretty big fan of Tony Messenger, but I also thought he missed the mark on that piece. Myself and other readers here are intelligent enough to get his point, but the whole "forget the crime, let's do a new logo instead" angle is just going to feed the ignorant bottom feeders in the exburbs (basically Tony's neighbors lol) who haven't seen the inside of a MetroLink train in 15 years, if ever.
I think a rebranding (and a system overhaul like Reimagined) are very important steps forward for Metro. I'm still of the mind that security issues won't really fix themselves until the system has a unified, single police force...but I don't think the County (Belmar specifically) wants to let their mitts off the controls.
- 10
Just realized I posted my above Bi-State post in the wrong thread. My bad. Going to post it in the catch all thread now.
Wow, great pictures. What a blast from the past, this one especially, with the old bus station, Sheraton convention hotel, and Union Market - back when it was still a market, I think - all in one shot. That was taken some time in the mid-to-late '70s, but what year I wonder...stlgasm wrote:I think "STL" forming an M is actually pretty clever. Although nothing beats the '70s/'80s Bi-State logo and color scheme. Think how cool MetroLink trains would look in these blue and green stripes.
Images are courtesy of Mel Bernero, and can be viewed at http://gallery.bustalk.info/
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1978! The year I was born (barn).urbanitas wrote: ↑Sep 25, 2019Wow, great pictures. What a blast from the past, this one especially, with the old bus station, Sheraton convention hotel, and Union Market - back when it was still a market, I think - all in one shot. That was taken some time in the mid-to-late '70s, but what year I wonder...stlgasm wrote:I think "STL" forming an M is actually pretty clever. Although nothing beats the '70s/'80s Bi-State logo and color scheme. Think how cool MetroLink trains would look in these blue and green stripes.
Images are courtesy of Mel Bernero, and can be viewed at http://gallery.bustalk.info/
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Just because I was curious, and maybe someone else is too: The public market in Union Market closed sometime in 1982, so it was indeed open when that picture was taken. BTW, I found an interesting timeline with a lot of info on this old blog: Is Union Market Cursed?stlgasm wrote:1978! The year I was born (barn).urbanitas wrote:Wow, great pictures. What a blast from the past, this one especially, with the old bus station, Sheraton convention hotel, and Union Market - back when it was still a market, I think - all in one shot. That was taken some time in the mid-to-late '70s, but what year I wonder...stlgasm wrote:I think "STL" forming an M is actually pretty clever. Although nothing beats the '70s/'80s Bi-State logo and color scheme. Think how cool MetroLink trains would look in these blue and green stripes.
Images are courtesy of Mel Bernero, and can be viewed at http://gallery.bustalk.info/
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They seem to be checking tickets far, far more than in the past. Maybe too much. A lady next to me today was clearly annoyed at having to show her ticket again. Mine was checked three times on a 16-minute round trip ride.
It's too bad they can't put some of that manpower into addressing actual crime instead of squandering it on pestering fare-paying riders nonstop. But obviously that'd require police instead of just security guards.
It's too bad they can't put some of that manpower into addressing actual crime instead of squandering it on pestering fare-paying riders nonstop. But obviously that'd require police instead of just security guards.
^ YMMV of course, but I ride daily, and my ticket still hasn't been checked in at least six months and counting. I haven't seen a police officer in more than three months (and when I did, they rode from Clayton to Richmond Heights and didn't do anything). I haven't seen a Metro PSO on the train or platform in almost nine months.
This is just my experience, but it seems to come and go in waves. There will be a few weeks with lots of checks for fares and then nothing for two or three months. I always thought it might be a cycle of management pushing the inspectors to write more citations, which they do for a couple of weeks to satisfy management, before returning back to phoning it in. Rinse and repeat.
I rarely see actual Metro public safety or other police. It's the private security guards. And they seem to check every single time I enter the platform, plus on the train at least 60% of the time.
It's just frustrating, and I got into it with a guard once. They still let neer-do-wells congregate at the stairways blocking access, but they want to check tickets nonstop. I'd rather them maintain a safe path to the station rather than check fares 3x per trip. We've already determined criminals on Metrolink have paid fares for the most part.
Checking everybody's fares all the time using guards who are unable to address real crime (other than calling police) isn't making things safer.
It's just frustrating, and I got into it with a guard once. They still let neer-do-wells congregate at the stairways blocking access, but they want to check tickets nonstop. I'd rather them maintain a safe path to the station rather than check fares 3x per trip. We've already determined criminals on Metrolink have paid fares for the most part.
Checking everybody's fares all the time using guards who are unable to address real crime (other than calling police) isn't making things safer.
Glad that the region's criminal element abhor the tragedy of the commons and support our public transit system.
StLToday - You'll see more security on MetroLink, but some issues still aren't resolved
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 5af55.html
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... 5af55.html
Not sure I agree with no guns for security guards. So what you will have is a glorified mall cop.
They’re not qualified mentally or physically to carry guns with force. That’s not a dig, it’s just the truth. 99% of “crime” on MetroLink does not require a gun to address. If a larger issue comes up, the better communications and presence of legitimate police can be called upon.
The 108 security guards should be oriented towards customer service and petty crime.
The 108 security guards should be oriented towards customer service and petty crime.
Pretty much agreed. Most of the comments I see when I subject myself to the P-D comments section assume that guards today all carry guns, when in reality it's a minority. An as you pointed out, most of those that do are not fit to do so. There is even a Facebook page that shows videos of Metro guards that have pulled guns on people and then have no idea what to do.addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 27, 2020They’re not qualified mentally or physically to carry guns with force. That’s not a dig, it’s just the truth. 99% of “crime” on MetroLink does not require a gun to address. If a larger issue comes up, the better communications and presence of legitimate police can be called upon.
The 108 security guards should be oriented towards customer service and petty crime.
That said, it has been a tough sell to de-arm security guards when the police presence has been so woefully and willfully neglected.
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"If you're nothing without a gun, then you shouldn't have it." - Tony StarkNot sure I agree with no guns for security guards. So what you will have is a glorified mall cop.
My worry is that the the urge to break up an ongoing crime might not be there without deputization. They're probably not paid very well, and, unarmed, too boot. They have to at least have a taser or something, right? I just see this as yet another weak deflection for public perception. What's it going to take to just have the police there from the very get-go? Why should these guards have to hopefully witness, assess, take time to call, and wait for a deputized officer to arrive, who can then assess themselves, and scratch their head when the offender is gone or something has already happened?addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 27, 2020They’re not qualified mentally or physically to carry guns with force. That’s not a dig, it’s just the truth. 99% of “crime” on MetroLink does not require a gun to address. If a larger issue comes up, the better communications and presence of legitimate police can be called upon.
The 108 security guards should be oriented towards customer service and petty crime.
Exactly...this is all about public perception. Metro and "regional leaders" have really failed to run the Metrolink effectively in my opinion. Everything from safety to expansion is a circus and a joke in my opinion. How about 1 officer permanently at the station and 1 security guard to ride the trains. Give the security radios to call for back up and have police waiting at the stations to arrest perpetrators as soon as they get off the train. That's how I've seen it work in other cities and you don't need a million dollar study to figure that out. I'll gladly give Metro a deal. My fee is $200.bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Feb 28, 2020My worry is that the the urge to break up an ongoing crime might not be there without deputization. They're probably not paid very well, and, unarmed, too boot. They have to at least have a taser or something, right? I just see this as yet another weak deflection for public perception. What's it going to take to just have the police there from the very get-go? Why should these guards have to hopefully witness, assess, take time to call, and wait for a deputized officer to arrive, who can then assess themselves, and scratch their head when the offender is gone or something has already happened?addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 27, 2020They’re not qualified mentally or physically to carry guns with force. That’s not a dig, it’s just the truth. 99% of “crime” on MetroLink does not require a gun to address. If a larger issue comes up, the better communications and presence of legitimate police can be called upon.
The 108 security guards should be oriented towards customer service and petty crime.
Then I encourage you to visit the crime prevention plan created by WSP as well as the Bi-State Board meeting minutes to actually review the extent of these changes.
This isn’t a ceremonial symbolic process. This is a realignment of security, police, and prosecution to match industry standards. The bill on this realignment is $30m+ which now gives Metro 108 customer service oriented security guards, 40+ actual full-time officers, 2 full time staff dedicated to security operations, and a new communication systems between the jurisdictions.
I’m not a fan of everything being changed either, but it’s definitely not a “perception” change.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This isn’t a ceremonial symbolic process. This is a realignment of security, police, and prosecution to match industry standards. The bill on this realignment is $30m+ which now gives Metro 108 customer service oriented security guards, 40+ actual full-time officers, 2 full time staff dedicated to security operations, and a new communication systems between the jurisdictions.
I’m not a fan of everything being changed either, but it’s definitely not a “perception” change.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Metro has ran 20+ trains daily at 6-12 minute frequency with minor delays and fairly clean trains and stations. THE region has failed to make adjustments in land use or zoning to support growth. Metro has held up its end of the deal. The public hasn’t.
100% agree. Metro has done fine, maybe even more than fine, considering the resources they've been given. The region's fragmentation is what the real problem is here. Another study also suggested a single unified police department for Metro, which in my opinion is still the way to go. Fat chance of that happening with this region though. No matter how many agreements are put in place among the current agencies, it's still four or five separate groups that aren't all that fond of each other.addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 28, 2020Metro has ran 20+ trains daily at 6-12 minute frequency with minor delays and fairly clean trains and stations. THE region has failed to make adjustments in land use or zoning to support growth. Metro has held up its end of the deal. The public hasn’t.
And no, I'm not talking about deputizing the current security guards, but a fully accredited police department with fully vetted officers. Most all large transit systems have a single police department...St. Louis could, and should, too.
Having started riding MetroLink again on the daily this month, I have noticed a lot more security and they seem to be cracking down on the abuses we have all gotten used to seeing. I definitely feel safer riding, though this has been mostly during rush hour so I can't speak to conditions at other times.