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PostJun 26, 2018#4701

It's officially Sun Country. Tampa and Fort Meyers. 2x per week.

As happy as I am that this is new service, there is seriously no way these routes will be remotely successful. I give them 6 months.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4702

Agreed. I don't know what they see that we don't. Those two markets are very well-served.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4703

Watched a bit of the presser, and I think the most telling question was "What is Sun Country?"

Not to be a bit of a downer, but even Rhonda seemed 'meh' about this. Seriously though, two times per week?? How can that even be profitable?

Again, I'm still very excited that an airline is choosing to serve St Louis, but these routes just will not be anywhere near profitable.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4704

pdm_ad wrote:KMOV is reporting the flights will start 'later this year'.

Please be JetBlue...
Have heard JetBlue isn’t likely in the nearish future(Next Few Years). BA in August though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostJun 26, 2018#4705

MEH

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PostJun 26, 2018#4706

Chalupas54 wrote:
Jun 26, 2018
Watched a bit of the presser, and I think the most telling question was "What is Sun Country?"

Not to be a bit of a downer, but even Rhonda seemed 'meh' about this. Seriously though, two times per week?? How can that even be profitable?

Again, I'm still very excited that an airline is choosing to serve St Louis, but these routes just will not be anywhere near profitable.
Did you watch it online? I couldn't find it. Let me know where.

And I think they will do okay. Allegiant/Frontier hasn't had any problems with twice a week to the same spots. Although, if Southwest price matches it could be rough for them. I think most would take Southwest over them and Allegiant/Frontier are going to be about half the price for the base fares.

I have seen it mentioned they are seasonal so I want to know what they are going to switch to for summer.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4707

Any indication as to what gates they would use?

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PostJun 26, 2018#4708

mjbais1489 wrote:
Jun 26, 2018
Any indication as to what gates they would use?
I am not even sure what is available, at least short term til March.

Has to be in T1
A9 is open but it has a really small waiting room that would be better for an RJ.
A15 is the charter gate, maybe they could share if all the charters are morning departures. I kind of doubt they share though.

C2 I am pretty sure also has no waiting room, if there even can be a gate there anymore with the restaurants and retail in that area..
C9 is blocked by C15 and Cape Air/Air choice one.
C17 is blocked by C15 and C19
C27-C30 will be in the middle of a remodel then. Maybe they can get C27 done in time for them to start.

If they re-position C15/19/23 then maybe they can get C25 back online but it will also be in the remodel zone I think.

Frontier has 2 gates and only runs 4 to 6 flights a day. I doubt they want to share with a competitor though.

I am curious how they will work it out.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4709

Yeah, was hoping for something bigger—but more flights and a new airline is still a plus. Hopefully they will do well, such that they'll add some Caribbean flights, and maybe Costa Rica.

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PostJun 26, 2018#4710

Maybe the airport isn’t doing as well as we thought??? Should we be worried about the long term trends?


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PostJun 26, 2018#4711

moorlander wrote:
Jun 26, 2018
Maybe the airport isn’t doing as well as we thought??? Should we be worried about the long term trends?

He is cherry picking stats from 2009 til now. The airport didn't do all that great from 2009-2015ish. Since then it has been performing really well. If you take the long period it averages out not as great (although it still is a 15% increase in passengers).

If we were having the privatization talk in 2011, then I would be more receptive but now that the airport has turned things around isn't the time to be giving control to someone else. You don't fire people after they figure it out and get it going again.

Cost per emplacement is down 24% since 2009. So although high (and not THAT high) it is going down.
The main place revenue is down is landing fee revenue, because they are lowering landing fees.
Non Passenger aeronautical revenue is up 73% since 2009
Non aeronautical revenue is up 35% since 2009.
Operating expenses (not counting depreciation) are down 4% since 2009.

Operating income was 1.1 million in 2009
It was 6.1 million in 2016
Pretty much break even in 2017

Stats change year to year.

Anyone can find stats to fit what they want to portray.

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PostJun 27, 2018#4712

^ Strong agree with you jshank. My AP US Gov teacher always said: "Statistics are like bikinis: what they reveal is interesting; what they don't reveal is even more interesting."

I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds it super shady that former mayor Slay is now part of the team pushing for airport privatization after he was the one that initiated it right before he left office. Behind a paywall, but: https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ct-to.html

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PostJun 27, 2018#4713

Trololzilla wrote:
Jun 27, 2018
^ Strong agree with you jshank. My AP US Gov teacher always said: "Statistics are like bikinis: what they reveal is interesting; what they don't reveal is even more interesting."

I'm glad I'm not the only one that finds it super shady that former mayor Slay is now part of the team pushing for airport privatization after he was the one that initiated it right before he left office. Behind a paywall, but: https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ct-to.html
At least Kirn was somewhat receptive to feedback, especially from the @flystl account. @flystl was especially chipper today on twitter.

This one did make me laugh today.
----
@nickpistor
How bad is Lambert Airport? It’s wall-to-wall coverage when a heavily subsidized route to Florida is added by an airline you’ve never heard of.

@flystl
Replying to @nickpistor
The airline did not apply for any local subsidy or incentives prior to its announcement.
----

It was even said in the press conference they aren't getting incentives.

I think if the airport continues to add flights and especially new airlines (even more so if BA comes), I think the privatization crowd is going to have a tough road. I would like to some proposals by the end of the year of what privatization could look like money wise and airport improvement wise. I am just still a little skeptical we are going to get more out of it now, than we already are, after the private company takes their cut.

PostJun 28, 2018#4714

Southwest extended their schedule for Jan-Feb today. No new routes, but they are up 6 flights day over last year. Cancun stay daily.

My google spreadsheet.

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PostJun 29, 2018#4715

Arrived at 6:30 PM last evening (Thursday) from reykjavik and T2 was crazy busy. Not only did three international flights arrive at the same time - so the line in customs/immigration area was long. There were at least enough agents on duty and were keeping the extremely long line moving. Global Entry point with the machines was moving quickly too. But, that being said, the carousel and baggage from these three arrivals at once was completely jammed and it took about an hour and a half to get baggage and being stuck in that baggage area before customs was quite tedious.

From Frankfurt to Reykjavik our WOW flight was on time. It was mostly full - a few seats open. The staff and crew on board were great. We really like WOW's excellent on board service. They are extremely professional and dressed to impress on all flights.

We had a short layover in Reykjavik for 2 hours. Reykjavik KEF airport is expanding and under major construction. But overall is very nice.

From Reykjavik to STL our flight was, again, completely sold out and on a larger A321. We did the "big seats" which are just two seats together on both sides and WOW's "first-class" or WOW Premium selection. The seats were better than any first-class seats I have had on Alaska, American (for sure) or Iberia. Very comfy and nice. WOW's planes are all immaculate and fresh. Our entire group of 18 were extremely satisfied and thought WOW was the way to fly to EU.

As for STL T2 Customs/Immigrations Arrivals hall... they need to already expand it. It is nice and fairly large but WOW seems to be really taking off and busy.

I like to watch, ask and listen to other flyers and this is what I took away from our R/T STL-KEF-FRA flights:

1) At LEAST a third of the 200+ people on our flights home were flying to/from Frankfurt. Both STL natives and German natives.
2) The people sitting next to us on the Reykjavik to STL flight were from Tel Aviv flying to STL to see relatives.
3) There was a group of about 10 people who were coming to STL from Ireland on the return flight.
4) Overall, most were impressed with WOW service.
5) Our luggage transferred completely fine R/T.
6) There were a few people from Iceland traveling to STL for vacation holiday.
7) Lots of families traveling on WOW to/from Iceland and other places.

So that being said, I would say more than 70% of our Thursday Reykjavik to STL flight had connected in Reykjavik to come to STL. Other airlines are going to take note of that fr sure. I truly believe that WOW has opened the door to EU for STLians and those coming here from other countries. Easy Easy connection in Reykjavik and a quick 6-7 hour flight to STL nonstop is very nice. WOW is banking on the connections to STL here - not just Iceland travelers... and it seems like they are doing it well.

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PostJul 01, 2018#4716

Apparently WOW will stop serving Tel Aviv altogether in October. Apparently the route was doing well, but they just couldn't justify the high airport fees, the low utilization of the aircraft (an A321neo, no less. It'd sit at TLV for something like 16 hours in order to make the connections work), and the fact that the flight from KEF was so long and costly (one of the longest A321 flights in the world apparently, at ~7 hours long). Shame to see that connection go away so quickly.

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PostJul 01, 2018#4717

^ the aircraft utilization likely contributes to making this route unviable, but the other thing to understand is TK/Turkish serve all the major US-TLV originators and they regularly undercut the AC, DL, UA, and LY non-stop mainstays from North America.

TK runs 9x peak day (321s, 333s, even occasional 77Ws) into TLV, all through traffic with the discretionary tourist and Jewish diaspora traffic heading to U.S., Canada, Europe in addition to the likes of BKK (very popular for Israelis). Why would someone stomach WW if they can fly TK on a widebody, get meals, assigned seats and at least one free bag (assuming they’re content transiting IST)?

WW would be backtracking for all of Western Europe which is already very well served with LCC/ULCC capacity into TLV T1 on the likes of Ryan Air, EasyJet, and Wizz Air. Besides, Israelis tend to spend their vacations and live in warm coastal places like Miami, Los Angeles, Bangkok, Barcelona but also major global cities like New York, London, etc with different climates. Hardly any history of presence of the Jews in Iceland which shouldn’t come as a surprise when you consider both circumcision and Kosher slaughter are outlawed.

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PostJul 02, 2018#4718

Not to take away from your post, which is probably spot-on, but I was essentially paraphrasing what others said in the a.net topic about the likely route cut. Just mentioned it here since the flight seemed to be getting at least some traction on the local end, so it's a shame to see it go away so soon.

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PostJul 02, 2018#4719

Trololzilla wrote:
Jul 02, 2018
Not to take away from your post, which is probably spot-on, but I was essentially paraphrasing what others said in the a.net topic about the likely route cut. Just mentioned it here since the flight seemed to be getting at least some traction on the local end, so it's a shame to see it go away so soon.
Fair enough, airliners.net has always been widely considered by those of us who work in the industry and have a solid grasp of business/commercial aspects to be mostly low information teenager, ramp agent and aviation enthusiast type posters. The site has gotten much worse when the floodgates opened a few years back and they eliminated the very nominal sign-up fee making the site overrun with more low information posters. About the only people there left that have good contributions are MAH4546, LAXintl, and Commavia. Those of us wanting a more sophisticated platform to substantively discuss this stuff are provided or pay for a subscription to Holly Hegeman’s Plane Business Banter, and/or Airline Weekly.

Regarding all the interest in Tel Aviv, I was very pleased to see at the GlobalSTL Health Summit held at WUSTL last week 10/14 investment pitches were from Israel. The other four for anyone interested were Ireland (x2), Netherlands, and U.K.

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PostJul 06, 2018#4720

I saw this on the contract opportunities site and it caught me a little off guard.

RFQ for Evaluation of the CBP Facility Location Alternatives at St. Louis Lambert International Airport

I didn't think they would be looking to move/add another CBP facility.

Seems like more foreshadowing of more Intl coming.

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PostJul 07, 2018#4721

American officially closing its pilot base in STL. 153 pilots affected. American puts another dagger into the remnants of TWA. :evil:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ame ... se-closure

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PostJul 07, 2018#4722

DogtownBnR wrote:
Jul 07, 2018
American officially closing its pilot base in STL. 153 pilots affected. American puts another dagger into the remnants of TWA. :evil:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ame ... se-closure
When I saw the closing announced last October I was surprised they still had a pilot base here. But I guess it made sense with the MD flying they still did. Now that they are getting rid of the planes, I guess the base goes also.

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PostJul 07, 2018#4723

jshank83 wrote:
Jun 22, 2018
stl07 wrote:
Jun 22, 2018
For those of you who like spotting, swift has a 767 widebody in for the Carribean flights.
Thanks for the heads up. I have been seeing other cities getting it, I was hoping we would at some point. Hopefully I can stop by to see it take off.

Can the gates they use (A15/E29) handle a 767 or does it have to load/offload somewhere else?
It seems to work fine.



Perspective plays odd tricks on you, but I believe it's at E31. The Frontier flight is from Cancun and is also at a customs gate, presumably E29, so they can even do a widebody at the same time as other international arrivals. Given scheduling, I'm guessing this is getting to be a common occurrence.

Now, I'd not be at all surprised if you have to have E33 clear to do that.

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PostJul 07, 2018#4724

^thanks for the pic!

I would assume you are right about not being able to use one of 31/33 if a wide body is in the other one. Busy in customs at that time I would guess.

If you ever see it loading let us know. I find it hard to believe they would wedge it back in A15. Maybe they use C28?

Thanks again

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PostJul 07, 2018#4725

jshank83 wrote:
Jul 06, 2018
I saw this on the contract opportunities site and it caught me a little off guard.

RFQ for Evaluation of the CBP Facility Location Alternatives at St. Louis Lambert International Airport

I didn't think they would be looking to move/add another CBP facility.

Seems like more foreshadowing of more Intl coming.
This does make sense, as it gives Southwest more of a chance to expand into international flights. I don't think it would be a stretch for Southwest to fill all 3 of the E international gates. STL could be a good midwest hub for flights to Mexico. WOW, charters, and future international flights could move back to the end of C.

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