urbanSTL

For those of you who like spotting, swift has a 767 widebody in for the Carribean flights.

stl07 wrote: ↑

Jun 22, 2018

For those of you who like spotting, swift has a 767 widebody in for the Carribean flights.

Thanks for the heads up. I have been seeing other cities getting it, I was hoping we would at some point. Hopefully I can stop by to see it take off.

Can the gates they use (A15/E29) handle a 767 or does it have to load/offload somewhere else?



In other news. A new PFC is out. Nothing too exciting (snow equipment) and some rework to T1 pickups and baggage. Hopefully it helps baggage times from the plane to the claim.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... Notice.pdf

BIGGER news, in my opinion, though is that I emailed the person listed in this asking about if anything was going on with renovating C29 and C30 in the previous PFC. He told me bids were recently released and the plan is to have it activated and opened by March 2019.

That would line up pretty well with an April or May start for a new airline.. Which is when new Europe routes usually start....

It would be nice to see Lambert finally open back up all of that corridor in the C concourse, but its nice to see gates C29 and C30 to reopen again.

I have used C28 quite a few times with American Airlines using that gate as an overflow/extra gate for its flights, and finally we can see Lambert take down that wall and door after gate C24.

Here are some questions I have about that part of the C concourse.

What was on the 2nd floor above C25-C28? Was that a second location TWA Aviators Club before? There are stairs to the upper level near decommissioned gate C26. Hopefully, Wingtips or someone else will open a common-use lounge for T1.

Also here is hoping that the moving walkways in C is reopened!

For those of you interested I updated my Load Factor Spreadsheet for March.



First month for West Palm Beach on Southwest. 92.57% out and 82.79% inbound. So I would expect that back next year. Maybe even add a Sunday flight.

Outbound to Denver on frontier was 97.5 percent full for the month. Pretty crazy for an A321.

BLV ran over 90% for the month so things are looking good there.

Trololzilla wrote: Also: I hadn't seen this proposal for a redesigned concourse layout before (surprisingly, given that it's quite a few years old):


I can see why it wouldn't be the best solution, however (it causes more problems than it solves, IMHO).

. . .

STLEnginerd wrote:Yeah not really sure what problem they were trying to solve there. Lack of retail in concourse D...?

That was a quite old suggestion. I hesitate to even call it a proposal, as so far as I know the only place it ever appeared was in the article on NextSTL. I'd call it a thought experiment with nice art. The article dates to 2011 when concourse C was still closed due to tornado damage, and the demolition of C was only part of the proposal. The author also suggested connecting all concourses inside of security to ease cross carrier connections.



It's not absolutely clear to if the proposed connection included a single secuirty checkpoint or if you would now access it from the ticketing hall level. There really doesn't appear to be enough room in the drawing for anything much beyond a narrow corridor. (Which corridor I don't care for anyway, as it would block the windows that are very much the heart and soul of that terminal design.)

Finally, this was at the very depth of the doldrums as the airport bottomed out. After the 2008 dehub, but before the Southwest adds really started picking up steam. So the thing aimed to solve three problems: Get rid of excess space, make the remaining space continuous airside, and use the tornado insurance money as efficiently as possible.

Of course, the idea that people will make cross carrier connections is . . . much debated. Here and elsewhere. And with Southwest that's particularly difficult, since they don't even use the same reservations system as anyone else. Further, I'm not convinced such an ambitious construction project would actually be cheaper than what was done. But I'm not sure it was a terrible plan for all that. I think time has borne out what the airport actually did, but it's interesting to speculate what might have happened had they done something like that instead. I expect the place would seem packed wall to wall at this point.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 22, 2018

BIGGER news, in my opinion, though is that I emailed the person listed in this asking about if anything was going on with renovating C29 and C30 in the previous PFC. He told me bids were recently released and the plan is to have it activated and opened by March 2019.

That would line up pretty well with an April or May start for a new airline.. Which is when new Europe routes usually start....

Question to ponder and really don't know the answer. Would opening C gates as noted above for international flights say BA put Lambert in position to move all the current international flights, arriving and departing, if desired to T1? Thus giving Lambert the option of both T1 & T2 having international arrivals and departures.

Essentially making Terminal 2/E gates a true standalone terminal for Southwest and therefore any improvements curbside, baggage and so forth a one airline discussion, vision. Who knows what Southwest Execs discussed with Lambert but that seems like a reasonable discussion point. It also gives the option to change things up on west side including partial demo of D for more parking/consolidated car facility between T1 and TE

^I'm pretty sure all the advantages and disadvantages of C concourse customs have been discussed before. There were more gates with access to customs. The actual customs hall is actually slightly larger. But you have to reenter airside just to exit the airport, since it's at the very end of the concourse, and there's probably no decent way to fix that without breaking the bank. (Or tearing the concourse down and starting over. Which would probably be cheaper.) I'd love to see it happen for reasons of pure childhood glee. But . . . I'd probably also want white trijets with red stripes everywhere. Or maybe humpback whales. That customs hall would be great for connections. It makes good sense for a gateway where most arriving passengers are hopping another flight. But it's less fantastic for O&D. Not that we wouldn't put up with it, mind. If it's just an inconvenience to locals . . .

It'd be an expense, but the capacity is there. On the other hand, the better half of international arrivals probably are Southwest. And they have enough gate, and I should think customs capacity without moving anyone. There's only, what, two international arrivals a day on average that aren't theirs? I'd guess it's possible. But I'm not sure there's an economic justification for it . . . yet.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 24, 2018

^I'm pretty sure all the advantages and disadvantages of C concourse customs have been discussed before. There were more gates with access to customs. The actual customs hall is actually slightly larger. But you have to reenter airside just to exit the airport, since it's at the very end of the concourse, and there's probably no decent way to fix that without breaking the bank. (Or tearing the concourse down and starting over. Which would probably be cheaper.) I'd love to see it happen for reasons of pure childhood glee. But . . . I'd probably also want white trijets with red stripes everywhere. Or maybe humpback whales. That customs hall would be great for connections. It makes good sense for a gateway where most arriving passengers are hopping another flight. But it's less fantastic for O&D. Not that we wouldn't put up with it, mind. If it's just an inconvenience to locals . . .

It'd be an expense, but the capacity is there. On the other hand, the better half of international arrivals probably are Southwest. And they have enough gate, and I should think customs capacity without moving anyone. There's only, what, two international arrivals a day on average that aren't theirs? I'd guess it's possible. But I'm not sure there's an economic justification for it . . . yet.

Intl that need customs
Frontier has Cancun daily
Southwest has Cancun Saturday only (runs daily starting November, and had run daily in March)
WOW 5x weekly
Swift 6 flights a week right now. Every day but Tuesday.

So, I guess in theory you could move everyone besides Southwest to C and cover all but one flight a day. Frontier is already in C, you could move WOW and Charters to C. If BA comes, they will run out of C I am sure. I would guess if it is someone else they will use C also for departures. All that said for reasons poet noted I doubt they open C back up. They just renovated the FIS in T2 so I don't see them moving anyone. Frontier just has to basically turn around to get to their gate from E29 and the new entrant wouldn't have far to go either. Only Swift has the long tow to A but their next flight is a day later so it isn't like they have to be in a hurry.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Jun 24, 2018

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jun 24, 2018

^I'm pretty sure all the advantages and disadvantages of C concourse customs have been discussed before. There were more gates with access to customs. The actual customs hall is actually slightly larger. But you have to reenter airside just to exit the airport, since it's at the very end of the concourse, and there's probably no decent way to fix that without breaking the bank. (Or tearing the concourse down and starting over. Which would probably be cheaper.) I'd love to see it happen for reasons of pure childhood glee. But . . . I'd probably also want white trijets with red stripes everywhere. Or maybe humpback whales. That customs hall would be great for connections. It makes good sense for a gateway where most arriving passengers are hopping another flight. But it's less fantastic for O&D. Not that we wouldn't put up with it, mind. If it's just an inconvenience to locals . . .

It'd be an expense, but the capacity is there. On the other hand, the better half of international arrivals probably are Southwest. And they have enough gate, and I should think customs capacity without moving anyone. There's only, what, two international arrivals a day on average that aren't theirs? I'd guess it's possible. But I'm not sure there's an economic justification for it . . . yet.

Intl that need customs
Frontier has Cancun daily
Southwest has Cancun Saturday only (runs daily starting November, and had run daily in March)
WOW 5x weekly
Swift 6 flights a week right now. Every day but Tuesday.

So, I guess in theory you could move everyone besides Southwest to C and cover all but one flight a day. Frontier is already in C, you could move WOW and Charters to C. If BA comes, they will run out of C I am sure. I would guess if it is someone else they will use C also for departures. All that said for reasons poet noted I doubt they open C back up. They just renovated the FIS in T2 so I don't see them moving anyone. Frontier just has to basically turn around to get to their gate from E29 and the new entrant wouldn't have far to go either. Only Swift has the long tow to A but their next flight is a day later so it isn't like they have to be in a hurry.

BA won’t be coming to STL in the near future...and if/when they do the airport will bend over backwards to accommodate them and their operational needs. The biggest challenge STL has is filling the forward cabin which produces an outsized portion of the revenue on such a flight. Without that it’s irresponsible to deploy a $~150 million capital asset, a $100 million LHR slot pair, and assume other commercial risks on a what is, at very best, an anemic growth market with household incomes well below the national average and a population that by and large is content traveling domestically.

I know many on here will say I’m being harsh but seriously, why would a carrier like BA come to STL when there are other faster growing markets with stronger fundamentals and industries that are more supportive of profitably filling a premium cabin? WN has a great thing going, other carriers may add some incremental opportunistic additions but seriously BA just isn’t meant to be. It’s almost as preposterous as saying there should a Bloomingdales or Mandarin Oriental located in the latest Union Station revitalization efforts.

JAL007 wrote: ↑

Jun 25, 2018

with household incomes well below the national average and a population that by and large is content traveling domestically.

By and large, I understand your reasons against BA coming here, but wonder if your logic isn't backed by facts or you are conflating the city with the region.

https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/missouri/st-louis/

The Census ACS 1-year survey reports that the median household income for the St Louis Missouri metro area was $59,780 in 2016, the latest figures available. St Louis median household income is $8,034 higher than the median Missouri household income and $2,163 greater than the US median household income.

I also believe that STL has more travelers to/from Europe than Indianapolis, Cinci and Pittsburgh....unfortunately, I cannot find the source from airliners.com.

My point - with subsidies comparable to other similar sized metros, STL could support a BA flight.

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jun 25, 2018

JAL007 wrote: ↑

Jun 25, 2018

with household incomes well below the national average and a population that by and large is content traveling domestically.

By and large, I understand your reasons against BA coming here, but wonder if your logic isn't backed by facts or you are conflating the city with the region.

https://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/missouri/st-louis/

The Census ACS 1-year survey reports that the median household income for the St Louis Missouri metro area was $59,780 in 2016, the latest figures available. St Louis median household income is $8,034 higher than the median Missouri household income and $2,163 greater than the US median household income.

I also believe that STL has more travelers to/from Europe than Indianapolis, Cinci and Pittsburgh....unfortunately, I cannot find the source from airliners.com.

My point - with subsidies comparable to other similar sized metros, STL could support a BA flight.

I also would argue based on what I have heard by WOW flights being pretty full and them adding an extra flight, because of demand, that I wouldn't say the region is content on flying domestically. Now WOW and BA are totally different price points so it isn't apples to apples but I think if we get a nonstop on BA that demand will increase, like it does for most nonstops.

I think BA will do fine. If Indy can support a Delta flight to Paris, with half the amount of passengers at the airport that we have, I think we can support one to London.

Any ideas what this could be. Lambert tweet:

We’ve got some exciting news to share! Tomorrow at 10:00 am CST, we’ll be announcing a new airline coming to STL. Any guesses???

Matthew Hibbard wrote: ↑

Jun 25, 2018

Any ideas what this could be. Lambert tweet:

We’ve got some exciting news to share! Tomorrow at 10:00 am CST, we’ll be announcing a new airline coming to STL. Any guesses???

I am going to guess Spirit. Probably too early for European and Madison, WI also has a new airline announcement tomorrow. Spirit seems like it would make sense if those are connected (not going to each other but both starting). I hope its Jetblue though.

Sun Country's twitter just tweeted they have announcements this week. Looks like Tuesday and Wednesday, so maybe they are an option also.

KMOV is reporting the flights will start 'later this year'.

Please be JetBlue...

pdm_ad wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2018

KMOV is reporting the flights will start 'later this year'.

Please be JetBlue...

I really hope its JetBlue, it will give STL more options especially to both BOS, FLL, and return of direct service to JFK.

I wouldn't mind Sun Country entering STL either as they are changing from a low-cost carrier into a more of a no-frills, budget-oriented carrier.

KMOV just more or less confirmed that it will be Sun Country on the 10 PM news.

No further details given.

Jeff

jeffrk wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2018

KMOV just more or less confirmed that it will be Sun Country on the 10 PM news.

No further details given.

Jeff

To add to Jeff's comment.

http://www.kmov.com/story/38503798/new- ... rt-airport

Sources tell News 4 Sun Country Airlines, a low-cost airline based in Minnesota will be offering flights out of St. Louis.

Great addition. Look, I’m not upset about this. This is a cool add for the airport and provides us with more service. I’m eager to see what destinations they serve.

As many have also said, I have heard rumblings that there will be an announcement in August as well.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jun 26, 2018

Great addition. Look, I’m not upset about this. This is a cool add for the airport and provides us with more service. I’m eager to see what destinations they serve.

As many have also said, I have heard rumblings that there will be an announcement in August as well.

I honestly don't know much about Sun Country except they are based in Minny and are switching to low cost Frontier type model. I just hope they don't add something like Orlando that we already have 4 airlines on, but I am sure they will. No one has trouble getting people to go there. I would like to see someplace new to go with it at least.

EDIT: Sun Country isn't quite as ULCC as I thought. They will have a premium economy class and will have usb ports at every seat. Some will have power ports. Free soft drinks. Only Includes an under the seat item so you pay for carry ons/bags and seat selection. Actually, doesn't sound bad at all. Pretty much the new basic economy fares from AA and United.

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 483463871/

Sun Country's current route map:



-RBB