800 Pine is a data center. I've always assumed there are not hordes of employees working in there everyday.mjbais1489 wrote: ↑Nov 01, 2017Okay - good to hear the other two are occupied. Certainly did not look like alot was going on in any of the buildings yesterday.MattnSTL wrote: ↑Oct 31, 2017The tallest tower in the middle is the one that is now vacant, and in foreclosure if I recall correctly. That one needs a lot of work for a new user, and some big users to make sense to reactivate. The other two are still occupied by AT&T, so conversion potential doesn't much matter.
The PD is reporting that Clayco/CRG has made an offer for 909 Pine. I would think they have some sort of plan and tenants in mind to want to purchase 1.4 million sf of vacant and aged office space. Any thoughts on what they could be trying to do? I'm wondering if they have an office tenant in the works that wants to take on a lot of space? Or mixed-use office and residential? I wouldn't mind living up at the top.
I think residential conversion is the way to go. Companies want fancy new buildings.
The only bad part is that that is A LOT of floor space. With Railway and Jefferson residential units coming on the market, we could actually see a dip in the residential occupancy demand.
The only bad part is that that is A LOT of floor space. With Railway and Jefferson residential units coming on the market, we could actually see a dip in the residential occupancy demand.
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The article mentions Otis Williams saying it will be mixed-use but didn't know any details of Clayco's plans.
The article said it was a mixed use project. It also said for a deal in place there would have to be at least 50% leased commitment.MattnSTL wrote: ↑Apr 05, 2018The PD is reporting that Clayco/CRG has made an offer for 909 Pine. I would think they have some sort of plan and tenants in mind to want to purchase 1.4 million sf of vacant and aged office space. Any thoughts on what they could be trying to do? I'm wondering if they have an office tenant in the works that wants to take on a lot of space? Or mixed-use office and residential? I wouldn't mind living up at the top.
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fwiw Indy's office market pretty much was in the toilet until Salesforce chose a rather similar building for its expanded regional HQ. I don't think it was single tenant for the original bank anchor but it was built in 1990 and has required some significant investment. Anyway, I hope office is at least part of the plan.aprice wrote: ↑Apr 05, 2018I think residential conversion is the way to go. Companies want fancy new buildings.
The only bad part is that that is A LOT of floor space. With Railway and Jefferson residential units coming on the market, we could actually see a dip in the residential occupancy demand.
As for housing, I agree that with all the new units in the pipeline there will be increasing questions about sustainable occupancy rates, but otoh I believe RR/X is looking at smaller-sized units, which will be a welcomed addition to the market, and Jefferson Arms will appeal to more of the higher-end clientele looking for a more historic setting than hi-rise tower. I think BPV and 300 S. Broadway may be more of the competition (and part of the reason I'm not really keen on 300 S. Broadway as it's so heavily subsidized when we already got a contributing building there and other sites more in need.)
I 100% agree that office SHOULD be part of the plan. I think that a lot of companies looking downtown can't find what they're looking and decide to move elsewhere. But I don't think that building or proposing office space is the way to create downtown STL office demand. There has to be a much much more well thorough strategic office demand plan.
I seriously doubt this as the plan, but could they possibly be planning on demo and a new building in its place? Would that ever be cheaper than re-configuring the building in a way that is attractive for both residential and office?
^Not in St. Louis, but it's happening in New York. Chase Bank is tearing down a 52 story building built in 1961, and replacing it with a new 70 story building. The "old" building is 1.5 million sq. ft., the new one will be about 2.5 million sq. ft.
https://archpaper.com/2018/02/de-blois- ... ion-chase/
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https://archpaper.com/2018/02/de-blois- ... ion-chase/
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God I hope not. There are two major drawbacks as I understand it.
1stly it is designed as a single occupancy building. For something SOO massive it will likely take a while to hook a big enough fish to fill it but even if that was the only option i tend to think its the right use for the building. I wish Express Scripts would take it it for instance.
I've heard it could be very costly to convert it to a multiple user building. Honestly though I have never understood what makes such a conversion so daunting. All I've heard is that it has stacked elevators... I've never been inside so I'd be interested in what it would take to make it attractive for several users.
The second major drawback as i understand it is a lack of adjacent dedicated parking. For this I think the solution is to put several floors of underground parking on the site of Serra's Twain. Then cover it with an extension of City Garden. The additional upside is we would finally have a strong enough argument to get rid of that sculpture that its supporters would likely not be able to counter it.
I really hope it stays primarily office. To me it seems there are much better options for mixed use conversions/residential. And its extremely premature to consider demo. Its by far one of the best looking building downtown and one of the tallest. You could consider dozens other sites downtown and a handful on the Gateway mall itself that would be more tolerable for demo consideration than this and very few of them would be tolerable.
Bold statement considering the quality of building stock Downtown.
While I will always be dumbfounded by what happened to the Columbia Building, perhaps a similar treatment could be applied to the AT&T Building. Take it from 44 stories/1,400,000 sq.ft. down to 22 stories/700,000 sq.ft. and suddenly you might have a somewhat more leasable and manageable property.
The subterranean parking idea is a good one (whether Twain is replaced or otherwise). Such an underground garage could also be shared with 1010 Market, which I believe is a less "problematic" building than AT&T in terms of size, elevator configuration, etc..., but shares that same primary hindrance of not having adequate connected parking for most tenants' wants/needs.
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I think this deal is incredible news. Personally, I would love to see this building get recladded on the exterior, but obviously that is highly unlikely. In the Amazon proposal, they gave this building a crown. That would be really cool to see.
Also, I would say that we will see Busch Stadium get demolished before this tower.
Also, I would say that we will see Busch Stadium get demolished before this tower.
That makes a lot sense for the St. Louis market and what some of major companies exist who might need more space and or consolidate office space/lease space whether it be Enterprise looking or say Charter considering that Clayco floating a 500,000 sq ft spec office building(s) along I-270wabash wrote:
While I will always be dumbfounded by what happened to the Columbia Building, perhaps a similar treatment could be applied to the AT&T Building. Take it from 44 stories/1,400,000 sq.ft. down to 22 stories/700,000 sq.ft. and suddenly you might have a somewhat more leasable and manageable property.
The subterranean parking idea is a good one (whether Twain is replaced or otherwise). Such an underground garage could also be shared with 1010 Market, which I believe is a less "problematic" building than AT&T in terms of size, elevator configuration, etc..., but shares that same primary hindrance of not having adequate connected parking for most tenants' wants/needs.
Incorporating a underground garage gets around one of the more difficult issue with this building. Even better if it sends Twain structure packing and you extend city garden
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So Bob Clark is going to buy this tower for $21MM?
He's going to make a few changes to it to prepare for a major tenant (hello Enterprise). Could be huuuuuuuuge for downtown.
He's going to make a few changes to it to prepare for a major tenant (hello Enterprise). Could be huuuuuuuuge for downtown.
Where did you get that number? Enterprise would do great down here.whitherSTL wrote:So Bob Clark is going to buy this tower for $21MM?
He's going to make a few changes to it to prepare for a major tenant (hello Enterprise). Could be huuuuuuuuge for downtown.
Could be huge is correct, but is (hello Enterprise) a speculation on your part or something behind that comment?whitherSTL wrote: So Bob Clark is going to buy this tower for $21MM?
He's going to make a few changes to it to prepare for a major tenant (hello Enterprise). Could be huuuuuuuuge for downtown.
Bob Clark's Clayco/GRG is becoming a huge player for St. Louis. Just think of the following between Downtown, Clayton CBD and West County
- looking at buying ATT One Center's 1.4 Million square feet
- Multiphase phase/mixed use with Centene, several million square feet I imagine when all said and doen
- 40 properties on contract in West County for 750,000 sq feet of spec office development.
Add in the fact that they built the Everly in short notice and have a stake in Delmar Divine as well as partner (if still the case) with Koplar/Koman to build Lindell & Kingshighway tower if ever gets off the ground
Why would Enterprise/EHI want to go downtown? If they need to expand they’re the type of company that would go for another corporate campus or “opportunistically” lease available space in locations along the central corridor. Outside their Clayton campus they already have people in O’Fallon and Olivette.
Why would their leadership team subject their employees to the city occupational earnings tax, high crime and lack of on-site parking?
Why would their leadership team subject their employees to the city occupational earnings tax, high crime and lack of on-site parking?
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^ I can;t quite tell if you're serious or if you're joking.
No joke. Is any of the above unsubstantiated?
-It is widely acknowledged there is a shortage of onside parking at this facility
-Non-residents of the city of St. Louis would become subject to the occupational earnings tax
-It is widely acknowledged that the downtown St. Louis area has more crime than Clayton and is also perceived to be more dangerous (rightfully so)
Sorry if the reality is inconvenient for some here.
-It is widely acknowledged there is a shortage of onside parking at this facility
-Non-residents of the city of St. Louis would become subject to the occupational earnings tax
-It is widely acknowledged that the downtown St. Louis area has more crime than Clayton and is also perceived to be more dangerous (rightfully so)
Sorry if the reality is inconvenient for some here.
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^ I thought it might be a joke because you made it sound like having a downtown presence would be subjecting employees to some kind of hell. Downtown has a lot to offer and which tens of thousands at firms such as AT&T and Stifel and Spire and Momentum and many others get to enjoy. It may not be the best fit for every company but I don't see any reason why a significant downtown presence for a large enterprise like Enterprise would be a huge surprise.
It's the kind of attitude that you express that keeps our downtown stuck in a slower gear while peers like Detroit are ascending to another level.
It's the kind of attitude that you express that keeps our downtown stuck in a slower gear while peers like Detroit are ascending to another level.
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Anything is achievable & downtown is only as dangerous as we allow it be.. Clayton has crime though in small doses but theres always that thing called perception. Whoever decides to settle into the former at&t high-rise has so many options around them & amenities.
How did this rumor of Enterprise moving start? A company of their status can build (or have built) office space anywhere without having to worry about constraints from renovating a building like the ATT tower.
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These backhanded comments are why no one takes you seriously on here, to be honest.JAL007 wrote: ↑Apr 09, 2018No joke. Is any of the above unsubstantiated?
-It is widely acknowledged there is a shortage of onside parking at this facility
-Non-residents of the city of St. Louis would become subject to the occupational earnings tax
-It is widely acknowledged that the downtown St. Louis area has more crime than Clayton and is also perceived to be more dangerous (rightfully so)
Sorry if the reality is inconvenient for some here.
Its 11:01 PM and just got home from Hamilton (the musical) and just got done walking the dog in Downtown STL.
JAL this is exactly why your comments on these boards are so jacked up and ridiculous. You don't even live in STL (as you have told us) or experience this city on a regular basis and you post such flagrant and flippant comments that your posts are superfluous.
JAL this is exactly why your comments on these boards are so jacked up and ridiculous. You don't even live in STL (as you have told us) or experience this city on a regular basis and you post such flagrant and flippant comments that your posts are superfluous.
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^Pure speculation on my part, but I feel that Enterprise needs to become a bit more of a tech company and quickly. And they know this. Their competition is not necessarily who the average Joe would guess it is. From where I'm sitting I'd guess their biggest competition right now is in Silicon Valley. And if they work right they're sitting pretty to do really really great things. But to do so they'll need even more tech talent than they have now and they'll need it fast. Millennials. Immigrants. Folks that maybe, statistically, don't want an enclave in the burbs anymore. And as others have said, there's just a lot more to do downtown that Clayton right now. That's changing, and quickly, but for the moment it's still true. And it will remain true relative to their more Brentwoody chunk of Clayton for a while to come. At least until they really work on building it into something better.