I think I can completely agree with that. If they really can do what they promise then I'm not opposed to it, but I want to see numbers. And I want a say. I don't want this to be a giveaway engineered over drinks on a certain (quite lovely) patio. There's just too much opportunity for smooth talkers to manipulate things without transparency. Even if those smooth talkers are indeed true believers we still need a free and open debate. An informed debate.
If we get a large ($750m+) payment upfront for a reasonable length lease then I could find my self supporting it.
I would want the full audit complete alongside a 20 year comprehensive budgeting plan by the city.
Months ago Trumps major infrastructure project list included the Lambert shipping hub. I take everything he says with a grain of salt, but a PPP might give the project a push. ++ Jobs.
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I would want the full audit complete alongside a 20 year comprehensive budgeting plan by the city.
Months ago Trumps major infrastructure project list included the Lambert shipping hub. I take everything he says with a grain of salt, but a PPP might give the project a push. ++ Jobs.
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- 1,792
I think they need to demonstrate where the inefficiencies are that a private company could address that a pseudo governmental organization can't. I think if they identify them you have to wonder why they can't just implement the changes rather than privatizing.
I just find it hard to see privatization of our international airport, which has demonstrated a solid steady recovery since its de-Hubbing under the current management structure makes very little sense.
The one thing that makes me think about changing the structure of ownership fort the airport is the fact that a city owned asset sits in the county which derives a large portion of the ancillary benefit from it (in terms of hotels, and restaurant taxes). To my mind the city should re-enter the county and the county should transfer a proportional amount of money to the city to bring the asset under a unified port authority. A big stated reason why many countiians resist reentry is the pat the county would have to bail out the cities financial issues. To me this is an example of a way for the city to get financial value out of the asset without privatizing the airport which is imho too risky and unproven. If there were a lot of national privatization success stories I might think differently but if it was such a no-brained you would think that everyone would be doing it.
I just find it hard to see privatization of our international airport, which has demonstrated a solid steady recovery since its de-Hubbing under the current management structure makes very little sense.
The one thing that makes me think about changing the structure of ownership fort the airport is the fact that a city owned asset sits in the county which derives a large portion of the ancillary benefit from it (in terms of hotels, and restaurant taxes). To my mind the city should re-enter the county and the county should transfer a proportional amount of money to the city to bring the asset under a unified port authority. A big stated reason why many countiians resist reentry is the pat the county would have to bail out the cities financial issues. To me this is an example of a way for the city to get financial value out of the asset without privatizing the airport which is imho too risky and unproven. If there were a lot of national privatization success stories I might think differently but if it was such a no-brained you would think that everyone would be doing it.
Nasheed seeks removal of Sinquefield-related firm from airport privatization team
I agree with her thoughts on this.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -firm.html
I agree with her thoughts on this.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -firm.html
Found this posted on twitter. Show the seats available by airline for the last 3 Decembers.
Change from 2016-17
American (-22,904) -1.51%
Air Canada (+8,547) +26.71%
Alaska (-6,621) -5.11%
Delta (-8,070) -0.74%
Frontier (+36,780) +9.88%
United (-19,835) -3.09%
Southwest (+539,098) +10.86%
Total (+518,899) +10.45%
![]()
3E = Air Choice One
9K = Cape Air
AC = Air Canada
AS = Alaska
F9 = Frontier
WN = Southwest
I think the rest everyone can figure out.
Just glancing through what I have seen for routes this year. Southwest will be up a fair amount again. I think Alaska will be up some. Frontier will be down. WOW will be new. Air Choice One (lost Decatur) and Cape Air (lost Cape G and Quincy, gained Decatur) will be down. United I am not sure but I would guess will be down again. American and Delta I am not sure about. Air Canada will be up a little more now that their 3x daily will have a full year on it.
Change from 2016-17
American (-22,904) -1.51%
Air Canada (+8,547) +26.71%
Alaska (-6,621) -5.11%
Delta (-8,070) -0.74%
Frontier (+36,780) +9.88%
United (-19,835) -3.09%
Southwest (+539,098) +10.86%
Total (+518,899) +10.45%
3E = Air Choice One
9K = Cape Air
AC = Air Canada
AS = Alaska
F9 = Frontier
WN = Southwest
I think the rest everyone can figure out.
Just glancing through what I have seen for routes this year. Southwest will be up a fair amount again. I think Alaska will be up some. Frontier will be down. WOW will be new. Air Choice One (lost Decatur) and Cape Air (lost Cape G and Quincy, gained Decatur) will be down. United I am not sure but I would guess will be down again. American and Delta I am not sure about. Air Canada will be up a little more now that their 3x daily will have a full year on it.
18 aldermen ask St. Louis leaders to reject Sinquefield-affiliated firm as airport privatization advisor
It will be interesting to see how this plays out seeing they can block any privitization.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... b854d.html
It will be interesting to see how this plays out seeing they can block any privitization.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... b854d.html
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Just because this second list seems important too, here's who didn't sign the letter:
Samuel L Moore, Ward 4
Tamika Hubbard, Ward 5
Jack Coatar, Ward 7
Joseph Vollmer, Ward 10
Tom Oldenburg, Ward 16
Joseph Roddy, Ward 17
Terry Kennedy, Ward 18
Marlene E Davis, Ward 19
Joseph Vaccaro, Ward 23
Samuel L Moore, Ward 4
Tamika Hubbard, Ward 5
Jack Coatar, Ward 7
Joseph Vollmer, Ward 10
Tom Oldenburg, Ward 16
Joseph Roddy, Ward 17
Terry Kennedy, Ward 18
Marlene E Davis, Ward 19
Joseph Vaccaro, Ward 23
Sort of an odd list that mostly overlaps with who I would consider the most "pro development" aldermen but several of the pro development crowd also signed the letter.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2018Just because this second list seems important too, here's who didn't sign the letter:
Samuel L Moore, Ward 4
Tamika Hubbard, Ward 5
Jack Coatar, Ward 7
Joseph Vollmer, Ward 10
Tom Oldenburg, Ward 16
Joseph Roddy, Ward 17
Terry Kennedy, Ward 18
Marlene E Davis, Ward 19
Joseph Vaccaro, Ward 23
- 6,119
It may not mean much. The lack of signatures doesn't necessarily mean they didn't support the letter. It could also mean they simply never had the chance. I'd guess most folks had a chance, but you'd have to contact them for comment. It was probably a silly exercise.
I added March to my Departures by Month Spreadsheet. (Airline/City)
Notes:
I added plane type to all routes. (737 is just 737, I didn't break it out by -700,-800 etc)
Southwest starts West Palm Beach (Saturday only) and brings back Panama City (daily)
Southwest is up 13 weekday departures from February to 114. Up 22 on Saturday (93) and up 19 on Sunday (114). I think everything seems to be back (or close) to pre 737-300 retirement levels.
Alaska brings Portland back and adds a 2nd daily to Seattle.
Frontier goes to 4x weekly to Denver for March. First time I have seen it less than daily. I do not understand Frontier's route strategy. March was their best Load % last year.
STL is up 136 weekly departures total from February (up 19.4 per day).
BLV is up 1 weekly.
Wednesday has the most departures with 255.
Total weekly depatures by airline:
Southwest .....778
American .......280
United.............188
Delta ..............184
Frontier...........30
Alaska............28
Allegiant..........21
Air Canada .....19
Notes:
I added plane type to all routes. (737 is just 737, I didn't break it out by -700,-800 etc)
Southwest starts West Palm Beach (Saturday only) and brings back Panama City (daily)
Southwest is up 13 weekday departures from February to 114. Up 22 on Saturday (93) and up 19 on Sunday (114). I think everything seems to be back (or close) to pre 737-300 retirement levels.
Alaska brings Portland back and adds a 2nd daily to Seattle.
Frontier goes to 4x weekly to Denver for March. First time I have seen it less than daily. I do not understand Frontier's route strategy. March was their best Load % last year.
STL is up 136 weekly departures total from February (up 19.4 per day).
BLV is up 1 weekly.
Wednesday has the most departures with 255.
Total weekly depatures by airline:
Southwest .....778
American .......280
United.............188
Delta ..............184
Frontier...........30
Alaska............28
Allegiant..........21
Air Canada .....19
One thing to realize is that some airlines (I know American does for sure) load a "base schedule" 330 days in advance but don't load a final schedule until 2-3 months before flight date.
As a result, estimating flight / seat counts further in advance than that may not accurately reflect the actual service that will be offered.
Greg
Yea, thats why I try to only update it a month ahead. I have noticed that before with the big 3. It seems like most of the updates lately have been to May schedules so I figured March was pretty solid by now. Thanks for the heads up though.gregl wrote: ↑Feb 06, 2018One thing to realize is that some airlines (I know American does for sure) load a "base schedule" 330 days in advance but don't load a final schedule until 2-3 months before flight date.
As a result, estimating flight / seat counts further in advance than that may not accurately reflect the actual service that will be offered.
Greg
Final 2017 numbers are out. They are in a cool graphic form, including route map, instead of the usual spreadsheet. I am guessing the spreadsheet will still be released with December numbers.
14,730,656 is the final count for the year. Up 5.5% (771,530 total)
Aircraft Operations up 3.1%
57.5% Southwest
16.6% American
11.5% Delta
6.8% United
4.7% Frontier
Total Departing Seats 18,743,407 up 5.9% (I think this is a typo and should say total seats departing and arriving)
Connectioning Passengers up 29.7%
Solid year.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... istics.pdf
14,730,656 is the final count for the year. Up 5.5% (771,530 total)
Aircraft Operations up 3.1%
57.5% Southwest
16.6% American
11.5% Delta
6.8% United
4.7% Frontier
Total Departing Seats 18,743,407 up 5.9% (I think this is a typo and should say total seats departing and arriving)
Connectioning Passengers up 29.7%
Solid year.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... istics.pdf
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Looks like for last year about 90 percent of the growth was due to connections due to how much of the increase of total emplanements was due to connecting enplanements. Not sure how to read that in terms of local demand since it looks like by crunching numbers total O&D increase is only .6% YOY.
Things to note is there was that there was weather issues this year, particularly the hurricanes really screwed up flights likely distorting numbers. Another is the long term trend of dropping O&D from short-haul and going to longer routes that reduces the net gain overall.
Also this could be a function of if not already a near maxing out of possible stimulation in demand on the domestic side since the gaps keep getting smaller there.
Things to note is there was that there was weather issues this year, particularly the hurricanes really screwed up flights likely distorting numbers. Another is the long term trend of dropping O&D from short-haul and going to longer routes that reduces the net gain overall.
Also this could be a function of if not already a near maxing out of possible stimulation in demand on the domestic side since the gaps keep getting smaller there.
Nicely done! There is a worrying trend though...For fiscal year 2016 enplanements controlled by two or fewer airlines were at 67.6% (Southwest, American and their affiliates), while this reports comes to at least 74%. Hopefully we'll be able to attract more airlines by the end of the year.
The December numbers are have been posted. Up 3% for the month
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Sidenote: If we are up 4.4% next year we will have our highest level since 2003 (which was right before a big pulldown in 2004)
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Sidenote: If we are up 4.4% next year we will have our highest level since 2003 (which was right before a big pulldown in 2004)
- 985
That seems like there is a good chance of it occurring with Southwest recovering from mass plane retirements early this year and WOW starting. Another factor is next Septembers numbers will be noticabily higher than this past one which was depressed by hurricanes in Texas and Florida and beyond.jshank83 wrote: ↑Feb 07, 2018The December numbers are have been posted. Up 3% for the month
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Sidenote: If we are up 4.4% next year we will have our highest level since 2003 (which was right before a big pulldown in 2004)
That would be a notable number if it hits since that's just before the first dehubbing occurred.
I know I'm being super pedantic, but 4.4% will put us right at about 2007 levels. From the ever-reliable Wikipedia:jshank83 wrote: ↑Feb 07, 2018The December numbers are have been posted. Up 3% for the month
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Sidenote: If we are up 4.4% next year we will have our highest level since 2003 (which was right before a big pulldown in 2004)
Code: Select all
Year Total Passengers % Change
2000 30,558,991 Increase 1.23%
2001 26,695,019 Decrease 12.64%
2002 25,626,114 Decrease 4.00%
2003 20,431,132 Decrease 20.27%
2004 13,396,028 Decrease 34.43%
2005 14,697,263 Increase 9.71%
2006 15,205,944 Increase 3.46%
2007 15,384,557 Increase 1.18%
2008 14,431,471 Decrease 6.20%
2009 12,796,302 Decrease 11.33%
2010 12,331,426 Decrease 3.63%
2011 12,526,150 Increase 1.58%
2012 12,688,726 Increase 1.30%
2013 12,570,128 Decrease 0.94%
2014 12,384,015 Decrease 1.48%
2015 12,752,331 Increase 2.97%
2016 13,959,126 Increase 9.46%
2017 14,730,656 Increase 5.5%Bump that to 4.5% and you're correct; that'd make for 15,393,536 passengers total. Unfortunately there's still a looong way to go to get back to pre-2004 numbers, but yeah, ~4.5% growth should be totally attainable barring something unforeseen.
-RBB
yea............ I read .04439 on my Calulator as 4.39% instead of 4.43%... My bad.. thanks for the catch. 4.5% is correct.rbb wrote: ↑Feb 07, 2018I know I'm being super pedantic, but 4.4% will put us right at about 2007 levels. From the ever-reliable Wikipedia:jshank83 wrote: ↑Feb 07, 2018The December numbers are have been posted. Up 3% for the month
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... PubRel.pdf
Sidenote: If we are up 4.4% next year we will have our highest level since 2003 (which was right before a big pulldown in 2004)
-RBB
No clue if this will mean anything for us but apparently Frontier is having a big service expansion announcement tomorrow. They are holding 15 press conferences across the country tomorrow. (Raleigh-Durham is one). We had a pretty big jump on Frontier last year, but at the moment it looks like we will be down in 2018. Just curious if this can continue their growth here. I am doubtful we will be on of the 15 but I am hoping maybe we get a flight or two to wherever those 15 are. I am not sure what they would look to add though. Anyway, I just wanted to note it, we will see if something comes out tomorrow.
https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/ne ... on-at.html
https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/ne ... on-at.html
Frontier has no reason to really expand here - although it could happen. Their routes are in conflict with what we already offer.
What were St. Louis MidAmerica's 2017 numbers(anyone) - and if we add those numbers to STL International where do we stand for the metro region?
I wish Allegiant would leave MidAmerica and join Lambert.
What were St. Louis MidAmerica's 2017 numbers(anyone) - and if we add those numbers to STL International where do we stand for the metro region?
I wish Allegiant would leave MidAmerica and join Lambert.
Is there any website/report that provides digestible statistics at the national level that could be used to benchmark these numbers? How do these compare to national averages and peer airports?
They were at 221,000 as of the end of November according to the airport director. I am fine with them being at BLV. It saves them money and that airport needs someone to give it business. The people on the IL side seem to use it because they keep adding flights. If it is working then just leave it alone.matguy70 wrote: ↑Feb 08, 2018Frontier has no reason to really expand here - although it could happen. Their routes are in conflict with what we already offer.
What were St. Louis MidAmerica's 2017 numbers(anyone) - and if we add those numbers to STL International where do we stand for the metro region?
I wish Allegiant would leave MidAmerica and join Lambert.
Frontier wise I don't see some big expansion but every route they run goes against someone else. I wouldn't say that is going to scare them off to run on a route someone else runs if they think they can make money on it.
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/airports. ... rier=FACTS
You can look at any airport on this site. It shows their traffic and breaks it down and says the rank (STL is 32).