St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

rbb · PostJan 22, 2018#42762018-01-22T21:59+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 22, 2018
From the Amazon RFP

Not sure when we got Etihad Airlines here......

Whoever proof read this thing did not do a good job.

Huh, interesting: https://flights.etihad.com/en/flights-to-st-louis

Looks like they're not direct; Flights into STL today are via a code share with American or Air Canada. http://www.etihad.com/en-us/about-us/our-partners/

Flights typically have one connection through either ORD (O'Hare Chicago), DFW (Dalas/Fort-Worth), LAX (Los Angeles), YYZ (Toronto Pearson), or IAD (Dulles). Looks like you fly into/out of one of those airports on Etihad livery bu use AA or AC planes between those airports and STL.

-RBB

matguy70 · PostJan 22, 2018#42772018-01-22T23:53+00:00

Interesting that Etihad would even be on there - much less used. ??? They have nonstops to North America. Does STL know something that we don't know yet?
https://flights.etihad.com/routemap/

jshank83 · PostJan 23, 2018#42782018-01-23T00:04+00:00

matguy70 wrote: ↑
Jan 22, 2018
Interesting that Etihad would even be on there - much less used. ??? They have nonstops to North America. Does STL know something that we don't know yet?
https://flights.etihad.com/routemap/

There is no way Etihad starts flying here. They only fly to a handful of the biggest cities in the United States. Whoever did the proposal screwed up and no one double checked it.

dredger · PostJan 23, 2018#42792018-01-23T01:54+00:00

I think a airport hotel w additional short term parking is not a bad idea for Lambert with or without Amazon. However, whish the would do something beyond another piecemeal add on at the end of Terminal 2/Southwest

kipfilet · PostJan 23, 2018#42802018-01-23T03:20+00:00

As someone mentioned, Etihad codeshares with AA. No way they would be flying to STL. Clearly someone misread/screwed up.

jshank83 · PostJan 23, 2018#42812018-01-23T20:53+00:00

The airport posted their annual Noise Report but it also includes operations.

It is broken down by runway use and how many flights by each airline (top 20). Also breaks down how many of each type of airplane were used (top 20). I found it interesting.

Top 5 airlines by flights (only includes mainline for Delta/American):

Southwest ---73,005
Cape Air ---18,969
American ---15,305
Delta ---9,905
Air Choice One ---8,279

United isn't even in the top 20. Not a big surprise since they run pretty much all regional jets here.

Top 5 airplane types:
Boeing 737-700 ---49,459
Boeing 737-800 ---21,662
Cessna 402 Utiliner ---19,121
Embraer 145 ---11,424
Canadair RJ 700 ---10,109

All those make sense based on the users of them.

Looks like the newest runway was around 10% use.
A total of 21 widebody commerical planes used the airport, apparently.

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... -final.pdf

wabash · PostJan 24, 2018#42822018-01-24T03:24+00:00

Cessna 402 Utiliner - That's a tiny plane. Is that private flights (which I thought mostly went out of Spirit of St. Louis or Downtown St. Louis airports) or is that a work-horse for Cape Air?

Also, was there a point when Delta briefly surpassed AA? For some reason I thought they had.

jshank83 · PostJan 24, 2018#42832018-01-24T05:21+00:00

wabash wrote: ↑
Jan 24, 2018
Cessna 402 Utiliner - That's a tiny plane. Is that private flights (which I thought mostly went out of Spirit of St. Louis or Downtown St. Louis airports) or is that a work-horse for Cape Air?

Yes, Cape Air uses them.

rbb · PostJan 24, 2018#42842018-01-24T18:24+00:00

wabash wrote: ↑
Jan 24, 2018
Cessna 402 Utiliner - That's a tiny plane. Is that private flights (which I thought mostly went out of Spirit of St. Louis or Downtown St. Louis airports) or is that a work-horse for Cape Air?

Also, was there a point when Delta briefly surpassed AA? For some reason I thought they had.

You remember correctly. From July 2010:

Delta Air Lines will add four daily round-trip flights between Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and Washington-Reagan National Airport this fall.

The new flights, which begin on Oct. 31, will bring Delta's total peak-day offerings from St. Louis to 38 — second only to Southwest Airlines for departures, airport officials said Wednesday.

-RBB

jshank83 · PostJan 24, 2018#42852018-01-24T20:11+00:00

^ for comparison the max daily departures for January (this includes the regionals into the mainline airline)

Southwest 102
American 40
Delta 28
United 28*
Frontier 6
Air Canada 3
Alaska 2

All United flights are on RJs at the moment, so even though it is the same as Delta it will be a lot less passengers.

gregl · PostJan 25, 2018#42862018-01-25T00:30+00:00

rbb wrote: ↑
Jan 24, 2018

wabash wrote: ↑
Jan 24, 2018
Cessna 402 Utiliner - That's a tiny plane. Is that private flights (which I thought mostly went out of Spirit of St. Louis or Downtown St. Louis airports) or is that a work-horse for Cape Air?

Also, was there a point when Delta briefly surpassed AA? For some reason I thought they had.
You remember correctly. From July 2010:

Delta Air Lines will add four daily round-trip flights between Lambert-St. Louis International Airport and Washington-Reagan National Airport this fall.

The new flights, which begin on Oct. 31, will bring Delta's total peak-day offerings from St. Louis to 38 — second only to Southwest Airlines for departures, airport officials said Wednesday.
-RBB

This was after Delta had merged with Northwest, tried to open some point-to-point routes from STL which they later canceled and before American merged with USAirways.

Chalupas54 · PostJan 25, 2018#42872018-01-25T15:13+00:00

WOW Service has been increased to 5X Weekly.

jshank83 · PostJan 25, 2018#42882018-01-25T15:19+00:00

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
Jan 25, 2018
WOW Service has been increased to 5X Weekly.

To expand on this.

The fifth weekly flight will add departures on Sundays between June 3, 2018 and September 23, 2018.

Flights must be selling well. Hopefully others take notice.

https://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-new ... and-flight

imperialmog · PostJan 25, 2018#42892018-01-25T15:51+00:00

Interesting to see if the other routes to the US they are adding is also increasing frequency. Also curious if this is related to the possibly seat makeup change as well. This does seem to indicate the flight doing well even with it being four months before starting.

jshank83 · PostJan 25, 2018#42902018-01-25T17:17+00:00

Skywest has dropped their appeal for Decatur service. Cape Air will take over and continue routes to STL and ORD.

http://herald-review.com/news/local/jet ... 90fa5.html

wabash · PostJan 25, 2018#42912018-01-25T21:06+00:00

I wonder how much of WOW's traffic out of STL is going to Iceland vs. connecting to European destinations. Seems like a potentially cheap and easy way to get to Europe - whether going to Iceland or not.

symphonicpoet · PostJan 26, 2018#42922018-01-26T07:57+00:00

Isn't that the point? Connecting to points further east? I'm sure Iceland is nice and all, but I don't think that's the draw. I'm guessing it's 99-1 or more in favor of connections.

Trololzilla · PostJan 26, 2018#42932018-01-26T11:40+00:00

^ Yep, which is precisely why Keflavík Intl. Airport has evolved into quite the Europe-NA connecting hub.

jshank83 · PostJan 26, 2018#42942018-01-26T16:14+00:00

wabash wrote: ↑
Jan 25, 2018
I wonder how much of WOW's traffic out of STL is going to Iceland vs. connecting to European destinations. Seems like a potentially cheap and easy way to get to Europe - whether going to Iceland or not.

For 2017 it looks like about 35% connect on to other places. That is a little lower than I expected but if I ever fly WOW it will probably be just to go to Iceland and any carrier other than WOW/Icelandair is only going to have terminating and origin passengers.

https://www.kefairport.is/English/About ... tics/2017/

Here is a pdf explaining stats from 2016.

https://www.kefairport.is/resources/Fil ... 016_x5.pdf

For 2018

https://www.isavia.is/english/news/over ... 2018/1674/

The number of transfer passengers going through Keflavik Airport will increase by 33%
The increase in arrivals and departures seems to be leveling off
Seasonal fluctuations continue to decrease
Connecting flights have become an important mainstay

wabash · PostJan 26, 2018#42952018-01-26T21:18+00:00

I figured most of the trips were just to go to Iceland. 35% is actually higher than I expected for through travel. But that portion seems like the best bet for growth. The market for Iceland visits from STL can only be so strong. But getting to major European cities cheaply while avoiding O'Hare and JFK (and perhaps some would consider it to break up the flights a bit better) seems like a potentially huge opportunity.

jshank83 · PostJan 26, 2018#42962018-01-26T23:22+00:00

A advisor team has been picked. It's a non profit run by Rex. I'm starting to be less and less optimistic this is going to be done on the up and up. I'm putting a lot of faith in the BOA now.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ssion=true

symphonicpoet · PostJan 27, 2018#42972018-01-27T06:10+00:00

35% connecting doesn't seem too unreasonable for the airport. My 99-1 comment was only meant to apply to the WOW STL service, which I rather thought was even being marketed as a STL to points beyond Keflavik service. (I looked at STL to London prices myself, since my brother is in Cambridge at present.) Iceland Air even had a marketing scheme where you could add a stop in Iceland for no extra cost so as to increase tourism. Iceland is surely a worthwhile destination, but I didn't get the impression that was what WOW was selling. Might have been a false impression on my part, though. Jshank, Do you have WOW numbers for other comparable flights that have been in service for a while?

PostJan 27, 2018#42982018-01-27T06:15+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Jan 26, 2018
A advisor team has been picked. It's a non profit run by Rex. I'm starting to be less and less optimistic this is going to be done on the up and up. I'm putting a lot of faith in the BOA now.

The only redeeming feature is that Grow Missouri's part appears to be principally underwriting and support, which I presume means they're paying the other involved parties up front and hoping to recoup that later. Assuming there's any truth in that tiny little blurb of an article. But yes, BOA don't fail us now. Pleas please please pay attention. Honestly, this strikes me as the sort of thing that ought to require a citywide vote. I can't believe this is really any smaller financially than giving money to sports arenas. We need transparency.

jshank83 · PostJan 27, 2018#42992018-01-27T15:45+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑
Jan 27, 2018
35% connecting doesn't seem too unreasonable for the airport. My 99-1 comment was only meant to apply to the WOW STL service, which I rather thought was even being marketed as a STL to points beyond Keflavik service. (I looked at STL to London prices myself, since my brother is in Cambridge at present.) Iceland Air even had a marketing scheme where you could add a stop in Iceland for no extra cost so as to increase tourism. Iceland is surely a worthwhile destination, but I didn't get the impression that was what WOW was selling. Might have been a false impression on my part, though. Jshank, Do you have WOW numbers for other comparable flights that have been in service for a while?

I can see if I can find Pittsburgh's from last year when I have some spare time. I also could email the airport and see if they would give me what the current sales percentages are for us. Not sure how much WOW clues them in but it wouldn't hurt to ask. WOW does the layover thing too where you can stay for a few days.

PostJan 27, 2018#43002018-01-27T15:54+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑
Jan 27, 2018

The only redeeming feature is that Grow Missouri's part appears to be principally underwriting and support, which I presume means they're paying the other involved parties up front and hoping to recoup that later. Assuming there's any truth in that tiny little blurb of an article. But yes, BOA don't fail us now. Pleas please please pay attention. Honestly, this strikes me as the sort of thing that ought to require a citywide vote. I can't believe this is really any smaller financially than giving money to sports arenas. We need transparency.

I am trying to keep an open mind, picking a different consultant than one Rex is involved in would have helped that. For me it all comes down to them somehow proving they can bring in more money than they do now, even after they get their piece of the pie. I just don't know how they can do that. I also am not sure how they are going to get the airlines to back it. I heard or read somewhere that airlines don't like airports that take money out and give it to the city because they want all the money put back into the airport. This is going to pull even more money out of the airport so they are also going to have to convince airlines that somehow this will be good for them. I guess they could propose some major renovation or tear down and rebuild. I am not sure how the numbers work in that case though. The mayor's letter talked about getting more non stops, I don't know if she hasn't been paying attention the last few years but they keep adding a fair amount every year. It isn't like we are going to be a major hub again and have a flight to smaller cities again, so I don't know what she is wanting. If it has to do with Europe I have to believe they are coming with or without privatization. The current leaders got most of the domestic map filled out and now are focusing on international. It just seems silly to change up one of the few well run things in the city at the current time. IF they do go private, I would hope they would keep some of the current people on to help run it still.

Hopefully, we get more details soon so people can have more of an informed opinion.

St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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