Nice! They already have had it on the terminal map so I figured it was coming sometime soon. I thought I had saw it talked about as a kiosk so I wasn't really sure what to expect, but that looks good. Should help out a lot. That area will be nice once the Club and other restaurant go in.
Sun Country is doing an overhaul on their business model. They have been pretty much Minneapolis focused but are going to start moving to an ULCC model, with some first class. Kind of random. Anyways, they are going to also start branching out to other cities. Not sure if they would come here or not, but I included a quote that makes me think it would be possible. We also don't have the ULCC carriers to the level Cincy and Indy already have (which might mean they will try to make a go of it here). Those two already have a fair amount of Allegiant and Frontier flights. I would think flying from warm weather to those cities is going to have a lot of competition on already established airlines. It might be a tough road for Sun Country to come in and go up against them.
"Bricked said the carrier would add routes to its some of its existing warm-weather destinations from other midsized Midwest origins, such as Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Indianapolis."
http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News ... un-Country
"Bricked said the carrier would add routes to its some of its existing warm-weather destinations from other midsized Midwest origins, such as Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Indianapolis."
http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News ... un-Country
- 1,054
St Louis however has a very large LCC presence in Southwest. I believe Frank DeGraaf pointed this out also- As much as WN has done for St Louis, it definitely has prevented airlines from entering. Spirit, Allegiant (BLV), Sun Country, won't launch major ULCC service in STL because of WN. Frontier already has a sizable STL presence, which I think has gobbled up the ULCC market, and WN still does have some ULCC fares even though it's not fully ULCC. I don't think a large scale ULCC operation would succeed in STL, as STL is more of a LCC market.jshank83 wrote:Sun Country is doing an overhaul on their business model. They have been pretty much Minneapolis focused but are going to start moving to an ULCC model, with some first class. Kind of random. Anyways, they are going to also start branching out to other cities. Not sure if they would come here or not, but I included a quote that makes me think it would be possible. We also don't have the ULCC carriers to the level Cincy and Indy already have (which might mean they will try to make a go of it here). Those two already have a fair amount of Allegiant and Frontier flights. I would think flying from warm weather to those cities is going to have a lot of competition on already established airlines. It might be a tough road for Sun Country to come in and go up against them.
"Bricked said the carrier would add routes to its some of its existing warm-weather destinations from other midsized Midwest origins, such as Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Indianapolis."
http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News ... un-Country
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
On another forum someone posts Airline route changes every Sunday. It had all the Southwest changes. Nothing that we didn't already know from the update. It looks like 7 more daily flights in April/May 2018 than April/May 2017 on Southwest.
As a comparison:
STL +7 (+1 = AUS, CLE, BNA, MDW, MKE, RDU, SAN, SMF, SJC)(-1 = FLL, RSW)
MCI -3
BNA +3
MDW +5 (I guess they still have some room left)
MCI is also getting its AA flight to LAX cut. That means AA has cut LAX and LGA within the last month at MCI.
MCI also has Alaska cutting Tues/Sat flights to Portland in October. For now, it has them back in later months but we will see if that changes.
As a comparison:
STL +7 (+1 = AUS, CLE, BNA, MDW, MKE, RDU, SAN, SMF, SJC)(-1 = FLL, RSW)
MCI -3
BNA +3
MDW +5 (I guess they still have some room left)
MCI is also getting its AA flight to LAX cut. That means AA has cut LAX and LGA within the last month at MCI.
MCI also has Alaska cutting Tues/Sat flights to Portland in October. For now, it has them back in later months but we will see if that changes.
- 1,054
Wow. Some rough news for MCI.jshank83 wrote:On another forum someone posts Airline route changes every Sunday. It had all the Southwest changes. Nothing that we didn't already know from the update. It looks like 7 more daily flights in April/May 2018 than April/May 2017 on Southwest.
As a comparison:
STL +7 (+1 = AUS, CLE, BNA, MDW, MKE, RDU, SAN, SMF, SJC)(-1 = FLL, RSW)
MCI -3
BNA +3
MDW +5 (I guess they still have some room left)
MCI is also getting its AA flight to LAX cut. That means AA has cut LAX and LGA within the last month at MCI.
MCI also has Alaska cutting Tues/Sat flights to Portland in October. For now, it has them back in later months but we will see if that changes.
I read somewhere that STL is the fastest growing SWA station in terms of route and passenger growth. Any truth to this?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
^ I also wonder if Southwest took advantage of STL to route some additional passengers when Hobby shutdown for Harvey. Assume Love Field picked up traffic but that was close to the action and STL simply has extra capacity.
Free wifi might get changed to an hour!?! We are moving up in the world! lol
http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 6e703.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 6e703.html
- 1,291
Finally. Good news if approved. Two hours (or even 90 minutes) would probably be even more convenient but one full hour is already much better than what's currently in place.jshank83 wrote: ↑Sep 04, 2017Free wifi might get changed to an hour!?! We are moving up in the world! lol
http://www.stltoday.com/news/traffic/al ... 6e703.html
Apparently the WOW air founder and CEO is looking to sell. Hopefully this doesn't have any implications for our service.
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ng-partner
A.Net topic: http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopi ... &t=1372921
This sale may be a good thing for WOW air if true. It will not affect the route additions as most have a signed contract for two years of service (with daily minimum flights) in place and money on the table. Those contracts would have to be honored in a corporate sale - no matter what.
^Unless of course there's a change of ownership clause in the contract.
- 1,054
STL one of the fastest growing SWA stations. MCI is actually the slowest grower/declining. The only stations that lost more than KC were SNA, CAK, DAY and another, two of which were closed stations.
It wouldn't be a KC post without the STL bashing, LOL
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 985
Interesting was in that chart as well noting if there were specific reasons as well. It does seem like here is one of the beneficiaries of the California focus with added destinations/frequency there that is part of the increase. Also note here was one of the fastest growing stations last year as well. Also the issue with shrinking flights with KC is beyond Southwest with others doing the same, so maybe something is going on there. Did notice, the only route going west that is served from KC and not here is Albequerque. I wonder if they may shift that route to here at some point?
Also even if you strip out the connecting traffic growth, there is still good local demand growth, which does also show that population growth and/or economic growth isn't always correlated with air travel growth. Since it seems the air travel growth here is outstripping economic growth, which could be due to other factors like economic makeup changing to sectors that have a higher rate of travel and generational shifts locally that does the same.
Also switching radio stations around driving in this morning. Did hear a blurb but not get the whole story on KMOX mentioning Lord Paul and British Airways. Sounds like it could be still full steam ahead on working on that, which would line up with a lot of comments from officials to getting more international service but curious what was all said. Would make sense to keep at it, since the domestic needs are almost all filled and seems to be doing so on its own more and more. (that and seems obvious this was the strategy by the airport anyway since around the final closure of AA hub, fill the domestic holes first and only then make a strong push towards international)
Also even if you strip out the connecting traffic growth, there is still good local demand growth, which does also show that population growth and/or economic growth isn't always correlated with air travel growth. Since it seems the air travel growth here is outstripping economic growth, which could be due to other factors like economic makeup changing to sectors that have a higher rate of travel and generational shifts locally that does the same.
Also switching radio stations around driving in this morning. Did hear a blurb but not get the whole story on KMOX mentioning Lord Paul and British Airways. Sounds like it could be still full steam ahead on working on that, which would line up with a lot of comments from officials to getting more international service but curious what was all said. Would make sense to keep at it, since the domestic needs are almost all filled and seems to be doing so on its own more and more. (that and seems obvious this was the strategy by the airport anyway since around the final closure of AA hub, fill the domestic holes first and only then make a strong push towards international)
I knew we were way up and MCI was down but I didn't realize it was that dramatic. thanks for sharing.Chalupas54 wrote: ↑Sep 05, 2017
STL one of the fastest growing SWA stations. MCI is actually the slowest grower/declining. The only stations that lost more than KC were SNA, CAK, DAY and another, two of which were closed stations.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- 1,054
I think the decline in air service at MCI is no longer related to the terminal situation. I do agree, there must be a problem with the market in Kansas City. From my understanding, the only problem facing MCI right now is the poor passenger experience and a few efficiency problems. Other than that, I believe there is nothing preventing an airline like Southwest/Delta having a major operation out of the airport. I know Southwest has said they are actively preventing connection possibilities at MCI, but that doesn't mean they can't offer more O&D service from MCI. There's clearly a problem.imperialmog wrote: ↑Sep 05, 2017Interesting was in that chart as well noting if there were specific reasons as well. It does seem like here is one of the beneficiaries of the California focus with added destinations/frequency there that is part of the increase. Also note here was one of the fastest growing stations last year as well. Also the issue with shrinking flights with KC is beyond Southwest with others doing the same, so maybe something is going on there. Did notice, the only route going west that is served from KC and not here is Albequerque. I wonder if they may shift that route to here at some point?
Also even if you strip out the connecting traffic growth, there is still good local demand growth, which does also show that population growth and/or economic growth isn't always correlated with air travel growth. Since it seems the air travel growth here is outstripping economic growth, which could be due to other factors like economic makeup changing to sectors that have a higher rate of travel and generational shifts locally that does the same.
Also switching radio stations around driving in this morning. Did hear a blurb but not get the whole story on KMOX mentioning Lord Paul and British Airways. Sounds like it could be still full steam ahead on working on that, which would line up with a lot of comments from officials to getting more international service but curious what was all said. Would make sense to keep at it, since the domestic needs are almost all filled and seems to be doing so on its own more and more. (that and seems obvious this was the strategy by the airport anyway since around the final closure of AA hub, fill the domestic holes first and only then make a strong push towards international)
I believe STL used to have service to ABQ on SWA. I think it went seasonal a few years back and was dropped. With the expansion out of STL, I think it would be reasonable to say any SWA destination could be a possible addition for us.
One last note on MCI, the reason I focus on them heavily is that I would say they are our 'competitor' airport. I think anything that happens at STL effects MCI, vice versa. Their terminal proposals are also very...how does one put it...ugly.
Lord Paul is an awesome asset to the St. Louis region. When British Airways comes to St. Louis, he will be an instrumental part of making it happen. Not many of the cities vying for their service right now have persons on the other side of the pond advocating for a flight to serve the British side of the pond.
These are the type of things I like to see that make me think the WOW flights are going to bring in new flyers that wouldn't be coming/going from STL before this flight. I think the low prices are going up really stimulate the European flight growth here and thus won't be a hindrance to getting BA or another carrier.
![]()
Looks like incentives will be a big topic at the Airport meeting this week. The old package is about up so they are putting together a new one.
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 9-6-17.pdf
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... 9-6-17.pdf
- 985
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/09/05/ ... l-flights/
^ Wonder if this article has any connection to the airport meeting as well? Since it seems incentives would be mostly going for international service at this point. The timing of this is a bit interesting and may not be coincidence. Just seems something is afoot that we will know in time.
Interesting noting the idea of the WOW service stimulating demand, since it does seem there is evidence that it will and not hurt other service to come here and could possibly encourage it. Since the incentive money used for it is tied to advertising which would stimulate demand and awareness overall.
^ Wonder if this article has any connection to the airport meeting as well? Since it seems incentives would be mostly going for international service at this point. The timing of this is a bit interesting and may not be coincidence. Just seems something is afoot that we will know in time.
Interesting noting the idea of the WOW service stimulating demand, since it does seem there is evidence that it will and not hurt other service to come here and could possibly encourage it. Since the incentive money used for it is tied to advertising which would stimulate demand and awareness overall.
Yes. You do not cut service if you are filling flights and have profit expectations being met.I think the decline in air service at MCI is no longer related to the terminal situation. I do agree, there must be a problem with the market in Kansas City.
If MCI local O&D was higher, the flights would obviously remain.
As for STL... the demand is not only connections. Sometimes I think KCians (and STLians) tend to overlook the fact that STL (regardless of slower / stagnant metro growth right now) is still a much larger population market. Period.
Growth of the international and domestic flights and our airport will most likely ramp up and stimulate growth of the metro as a whole.
I saw today that now Allegiant is cutting MCI-LAS. That on top of the already mentioned AA cuts to MCI-LGA and LAX. It is really interesting to see how things are changing there. Like others mentioned those cuts have nothing to do with the current terminal set up.matguy70 wrote: ↑Sep 05, 2017Yes. You do not cut service if you are filling flights and have profit expectations being met.I think the decline in air service at MCI is no longer related to the terminal situation. I do agree, there must be a problem with the market in Kansas City.
If MCI local O&D was higher, the flights would obviously remain.
As for STL... the demand is not only connections. Sometimes I think KCians (and STLians) tend to overlook the fact that STL (regardless of slower / stagnant metro growth right now) is still a much larger population market. Period.
Growth of the international and domestic flights and our airport will most likely ramp up and stimulate growth of the metro as a whole.
Indy gets Delta to Paris... grumble...
- 985
If this a 757 then it couldn't have been done from here anyway. (also wonder if seasonal if it is that due to range) This would also make it much less likely BA would look there since its very likely at least one of the three remaining 788s unassigned will be to a new US route.
Also isn't Delta the stronger US3 carrier in that market?
If it is a 757 (which I would somewhat guess its is) then I agree, I can't get too upset. And yes DL makes more sense there than here. They have more flights there. BA/AA would make more sense here. That is why I doubted they were in the running for a BA flight.imperialmog wrote: ↑Sep 06, 2017If this a 757 then it couldn't have been done from here anyway. (also wonder if seasonal if it is that due to range) This would also make it much less likely BA would look there since its very likely at least one of the three remaining 788s unassigned will be to a new US route.
Also isn't Delta the stronger US3 carrier in that market?
Still stings though. I like Delta over AA/BA personally so for me it stings more than others. haha
Well it is on a 767 and daily in summer 3x weekly in winter.... I am under the impression it will have some decent cargo.. but still...
http://news.delta.com/delta-launch-nons ... g-may-2018
5.5 mil in incentives over 2 years... That is a big number though
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... -to-europe
http://news.delta.com/delta-launch-nons ... g-may-2018
5.5 mil in incentives over 2 years... That is a big number though
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... -to-europe
Thanks for sharing. With all due respect and no snark intended, please understand that in this day and age cargo revenue for a passenger carrier is just ancillary and they gladly take it when they can get it, but to pretend on a wide scale network planning, fleet planning and other major initiatives center around cargo just isn't true. There are a few cases in certain markets airlines make these decisions regarding cargo and catering to the needs of a valuable shipper but it's the exception not the norm.jshank83 wrote: ↑Sep 06, 2017Well it is on a 767 and daily in summer 3x weekly in winter.... I am under the impression it will have some decent cargo.. but still...
http://news.delta.com/delta-launch-nons ... g-may-2018
5.5 mil in incentives over 2 years... That is a big number though
https://www.indianapolisairport.com/abo ... -to-europe
In 2016 Delta Air Lines Inc. had approximately $650 million in cargo revenue (down nearly 20% from prior year) on a backdrop of $34 billion in passenger revenue. Every major passenger airline collects more in ancillary bag, seat, change, etc fees than cargo revenue.
To give you some idea AA exited the containerized cargo on the transcons in 2014 and has instead moved to all narrowbody A321s that can still take higher margin Priority Parcel cargo that can be bulk loaded onto a narrowbody versus unit loaded onto a widebody as containerized cargo.
Great for IND but again cargo isn't their motivator or target market here.
- 1,054
No need to fret over this. IND was shaping up to be STL's main competitor for BA next year. The new DAL service will completely consume their EU passengers. If BA expands to the US next year, it will be STL.
Also, as cheap as it might sound, we still have TATL*.
Good for IND, Good for STL, Bad for CMH, MCI.
Also, as cheap as it might sound, we still have TATL*.
Good for IND, Good for STL, Bad for CMH, MCI.