JetBlue to JFK, Icelandair to Reykjavik, British Airways to London
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Why would you want JetBlue to JFK instead of Delta? Delta has far more connecting flights out of JFK and far more robust code share alliance. Seriously curious
JetBlue to JFK, Icelandair to Reykjavik, British Airways to London
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Why would you want JetBlue to JFK instead of Delta? Delta has far more connecting flights out of JFK and far more robust code share alliance. Seriously curious
I prefer JetBlue to Delta. Not to be mistaken, JetBlue has codeshares out of JFK as well. Not my intention however. I genuinely enjoy their customer service.
Since I complain about ticket prices to Boston a lot, I thought I would mention on here that AA has $105 each way flights for the next couple months at the moment. Connection through LGA for most of them. Not bad.
Probably not the forum to discuss, but over the last few weeks, I've been closely following the new KCI talks. I found some interesting comments on kcrag.com that I would like to get some more opinions on:
1. Kansas City could better serve Southwest, and Southwest wants to serve Kansas City more than they serve St. Louis.
2. A new terminal in Kansas City will guarantee new international service.
3. MCI is one of the fastest growing airports in the country in terms of passenger growth. (is this true?)
4. Kansas City has a higher propensity to travel than St. Louis does.
5. MCI has a higher draw than STL does- meaning, more Missourians and Kansans will drive to KCI to fly, rather than drive to STL.
6. Southwest is operating just as many flights out of MCI than they are in STL.
Probably not the forum to discuss, but over the last few weeks, I've been closely following the new KCI talks. I found some interesting comments on kcrag.com that I would like to get some more opinions on:
1. Kansas City could better serve Southwest, and Southwest wants to serve Kansas City more than they serve St. Louis.
2. A new terminal in Kansas City will guarantee new international service.
3. MCI is one of the fastest growing airports in the country in terms of passenger growth. (is this true?)
4. Kansas City has a higher propensity to travel than St. Louis does.
5. MCI has a higher draw than STL does- meaning, more Missourians and Kansans will drive to KCI to fly, rather than drive to STL.
6. Southwest is operating just as many flights out of MCI than they are in STL.
Anyone have thoughts on these assertions?
1. I don't agree with this but I guess it's a matter of opinion. Actions speak louder than words.
2. A new terminal won't guarantee them anything. They have a whole terminal sitting empty that someone could be using if they wanted to use it. I think a new terminal would help but I don't think it guarantees anything.
3. STL grew faster than KCI last year.
KCI was up 5.4% last year. STL was up 9.5%. Raw Passenger count wise STL grew by more than double of what KCI did.
This year KCI is up 5.4% again through May. STL is up 6.9% through April.
4. No clue.
5. Disagree. Otherwise they wouldn't have 20% less traffic than we do.
6. Not even close. I think KCI is around 75-80 SW flights a day. STL is at 110.
1. Kansas City could better serve Southwest, and Southwest wants to serve Kansas City more than they serve St. Louis.
SWA growth in STL is phenomenal the past two years. In addition, STL has been added as a major SWA connection airport. Such markets as Tulsa, Wichita and Des Moines SWA service / connections have been routed through STL and taken away from Midway Chicago.
The expansion of SWA into the new section of Terminal 2 and Concourse E just opened last week.
Southwest has their own Terminal in St. Louis... excellent connection structure and no need to share with other airlines. It is a structure for continued growth without any other airlines in their way. Their new concourse growth in Terminal 2 proves this.
2. A new terminal in Kansas City will guarantee new international service.
Hahaha. Ask Indy and many others.
3. MCI is one of the fastest growing airports in the country in terms of passenger growth. (is this true?)
It's up (as most, if not all, USA airports are right now) but definitely not anywhere is "fastest.
11,041,750 passengers traveled through Kansas City International Airport in 2016, up 5.4 percent from 2015
In St. Louis, Almost 14 million passengers traveled through St. Louis International Airport in 2016, an eight-year high for the airport. It’s a 10 percent increase over 2015 passenger traffic.
St. Louis International connecting traffic also went crazy in March 2017 with a 32 percent increase over
According to airport officials, Lambert was one of the 10 fastest-growing airports in the USA in 2016. This is true.
Nashville international was slightly higher than STL in 2016 with growth at 11 percent, however passengers totals still smaller with 12.9 million.
4. Kansas City has a higher propensity to travel than St. Louis does.
This doesn't even make sense. I have no idea what this poster is trying to say. One thing is STL has about 800,000 more in the metro and draws from cities like Springfield, IL for major air service needs.
5. MCI has a higher draw than STL does- meaning, more Missourians and Kansans will drive to KCI to fly, rather than drive to STL.
Again, What? Where do these posters get this crap?
6. Southwest is operating just as many flights out of MCI than they are in STL.
False... not even close.
Southwest Airlines, as has been the case for years, was the busiest airliner at STL International. This summer SWA has 107 daily departures and 47 non-stop destinations. New SWA international service to Cancun will also begin in November. One of only 15 SWA airports to have international destinations nonstop. STL is an official Focus City/hub for STL.
Note also: STL International serve 81 nonstop destinations with 287 departure flights daily.
At Kansas City MCI, Southwest serves 29 nonstop destinations as of this summer. With 68 daily departures.
Note also: MCI serves 51 nonstop destinations with a total of 168 daily departures.
Looks good especially when you note there wasn't the ramp up in flights compared to last year. Looking ahead seems this year will be rather solid growth but not like last year due to a lot less new service but signs point to more adds next year once the Southwest plane situation sorts out. This does give time to see if there are amenity improvements needed before further growth since its getting rather crowded for things now like getting something to eat or baggage pickup. But I guess these are the good problems to have.
It looks like Southwest added 7 flights this summer over last year. I know it is 110 total this year and last year it was 103. So just under 7% increase in flights. So summer should have decent numbers as well. I will be interested to see the numbers in a month.
jshank83 wrote:It looks like Southwest added 7 flights this summer over last year. I know it is 110 total this year and last year it was 103. So just under 7% increase in flights. So summer should have decent numbers as well. I will be interested to see the numbers in a month.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe the Airport director said that June numbers could be "record breaking".
The airport posted their agenda for the meeting this week. Nothing exciting unless
F. Ground Transportation Use Agreement for Transportation Network Companies
means Uber.
It also looks like CommutAir is going to start running some of the United flights to Newark/Washington DC, but they don't have anything bigger than a ERJ-145, so that isn't all that exciting. They have 2 types of propeller aircraft but I doubt they put them on our routes.
---EDIT: Apparently I read the numbers wrong and they all are round trip numbers so that throws everything off.
I updated the spreadsheet and modified this post.---
I got bored and put together a chart with PDEW numbers. For those of you who don't know what that means, it is how many people leave STL each day and go to the airport listed. This does not include people who connect through STL. It just counts people that start here and end at the airport listed. So if someone flies STL-ATL-JAX it just counts as STL-JAX, ATL does not factor in.
The link at the bottom has all airports that have at least 10 people a day that go there from STL. I included 3rd qtr and 4th qtr numbers from last year. This years are not posted yet. This does not factor in BLV. I did put BLV in spots where STL doesn't have flights to though, for reference.
I used 150 passengers for bigger planes (737,A319/320/321). I didn't want to dig into exact seat count for each route and figured using 150 was close enough for this. I also did not try to figure out the seat counts on big stations with lots of flights on all different planes (American, Delta, United) unless they only had a couple flights a day. I tried to average out seats on routes that fluctuate seasonally.
I won't list out the whole thing but here are some I found interesting.
Highest airports with no service. These are markets I think would be first up to be started if they do not have service now or expanded. Keep in mind if Southwest serves it, it can add connecting passengers. Southwest currently serves airports with lower numbers than these (although they are closer than these, DSM, ICT, TUL, LIT)
The number listed is how many seats short it is on non stops a day.
Sacramento, CA 83
Jacksonville, FL 66
Hartford, CT 64
Norfolk, VA (Metropolitan Area) 60
^And Richmond is 5th at 45 a day. I think this is significant because Richmond is within driving distance of Hampton Roads, at least the Peninsula. And the Peninsula also has its own airport (Newport News/Williamsburg) that has service to Atlanta and Philadelphia on a daily basis. I lived in Newport News for 3.5 years up until this spring and I probably flew out of Richmond, Norfolk, and Newport News about the same number of times during my time there. When flying to St. Louis I think it was always Norfolk or Newport News, but the point being that all three of those airports compete with each other (though with the way Newport News is going with criminal investigations and all, it could soon be two).
I agree you likely have to consider Richmond and Norfolk numbers together due to proximity. Since start a non stop in one would likely pull some traffic from the other metro. Also wonder how many would have guessed Sacramento is the busiest unserved route from here?
Will be interesting to see how the Charleston flight does since if it does well it could cause others to start. That and how much demand was stimulated from having the nonstop, this is even considering the times of the flight limited connection opportunities. That will be a good plus for the added gates, could make a few more routes possible and frequency increases to maximize connection feed opportunity. Of course they now need to work on amenities since its getting crowded now trying to get something to eat.
Seeing that table might be one of the reasons why you are hearing a lot more rumblings and effort about transatlantic and other international service additions, because there isn't much left domestically that can be added that is low hanging fruit. That and its easier to add service to something already served than to get service where you have none.
I agree you likely have to consider Richmond and Norfolk numbers together due to proximity. Since start a non stop in one would likely pull some traffic from the other metro. Also wonder how many would have guessed Sacramento is the busiest unserved route from here?
Can't speak to the STL to Sacramento numbers but Its interesting to note out here in the Bay Area how Sacramento airport is becoming a factor with growing Sacramento/Stockton areas & commute population pushing into the Delta/Central Valley as well as a better choice for those in outer East Bay/Contra Costa & Napa County as alternate to Oakland and they avoid SFO/San Jose even more with the congestion.
Sacramento, CA 83
Jacksonville, FL 66
Hartford, CT 64
Norfolk, VA (Metropolitan Area) 60
Richmond 45
How high do those numbers need to be for a non-stop? Most of those airports have a pretty big Southwest presence, have they run these routes before?
I don't think Southwest has run any of these before from STL. TWA/American probably did. Numbers wise I don't know, I haven't been following long enough. We have smaller stations with service but they are a lot closer than those. Sacramento only has Dallas, Chicago, Baltimore service east of Denver on Southwest. Those are all really big stations. I guess it depends if they are moving some connections through Chicago our way or not.
Sacramento, CA 83
Jacksonville, FL 66
Hartford, CT 64
Norfolk, VA (Metropolitan Area) 60
Richmond 45
How high do those numbers need to be for a non-stop? Most of those airports have a pretty big Southwest presence, have they run these routes before?
I don't think Southwest has run any of these before from STL. TWA/American probably did. Numbers wise I don't know, I haven't been following long enough. We have smaller stations with service but they are a lot closer than those. Sacramento only has Dallas, Chicago, Baltimore service east of Denver on Southwest. Those are all really big stations. I guess it depends if they are moving some connections through Chicago our way or not.
TW had routes to SMF, JAX, BDL, ORF but not RIC and I believe you are correct about WN not having nonstops from STL to those markets.
TW had routes to SMF, JAX, BDL, ORF but not RIC and I believe you are correct about WN not having nonstops from STL to those markets.
Incorrect, TWA started service to RIC in 1999.
But perhaps not from St. Louis directly? (Unless that changed by 1999.) Per my June 1992 schedule there were two daily except Sunday flights between St. Louis and RIC, but both were connecting flights made through JFK. In fact, all service to RIC in 1992 was through JFK. (By way of three daily except Sunday flights that made connections there with the rest of the system.) Schedules changed a lot between 1992 and 1999, and TWA added a lot of domestic service as they cut international flights during that time, as I recall. But Richmond was never a major market for them, and I believe JFK was their east coast (and international) hub right to the end.
Does anyone know if C29 and C30 are on course for reactivation? I haven't flown out of C in a while, so I was't sure if work had started yet. I figured renovation would start after E34-E40 had opened.
Does anyone know if C29 and C30 are on course for reactivation? I haven't flown out of C in a while, so I was't sure if work had started yet. I figured renovation would start after E34-E40 had opened.
I don't think work has stated yet. If it has it would have just started. I thought I saw somewhere they approved it but I also am not entirely sure on that.
