urbanSTL

Hopefully Jefferson Arms gets underway soon. I kinda wish something would happen with the vacant VA building next to Union Station. It's a fairly new building with plenty of square footage and parking (city owned parking lot). With the huge glut of office space I wonder if apartments or a hotel would be a better choice

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

A giant sinkhole swallowed a car this morning right outside the Railway Exchange. Impressive pics and semi-interesting discussion of relation to the water main break last November that flooded the basement of the Railway Exchange: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ce2b.html

Also, I saw this the other day. I can't help but wonder if this gentlemen is aware of concepts such as gravity and terminal velocity: http://www.kmov.com/story/35762573/cell ... n-st-louis

FWIW the gas station is actually in Lasalle Park, not Downtown. I know, arbitrary lines along Chouteau be damned, but just chiming in.

Technically, yes, Lasalle Park, but literally one or two dozen feet from downtown, one block from Broadway Oyster, and three blocks from Busch Stadium. When I lived in the lower CBD I pretty much considered this and the Taco Bell across the street (which is technically in downtown) part of my neighborhood.

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

A giant sinkhole swallowed a car this morning right outside the Railway Exchange. Impressive pics and semi-interesting discussion of relation to the water main break last November that flooded the basement of the Railway Exchange: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ce2b.html

Also, I saw this the other day. I can't help but wonder if this gentlemen is aware of concepts such as gravity and terminal velocity: http://www.kmov.com/story/35762573/cell ... n-st-louis

FWIW the gas station is actually in Lasalle Park, not Downtown. I know, arbitrary lines along Chouteau be damned, but just chiming in.

Technically, yes, Lasalle Park, but literally one or two dozen feet from downtown, one block from Broadway Oyster, and three blocks from Busch Stadium. When I lived in the lower CBD I pretty much considered this and the Taco Bell across the street (which is technically in downtown) part of my neighborhood.

Gotcha. There isn't much going on in this part of town though. Broadway essentially becomes a highway into Downtown. It's got gas stations, fast food and abandoned warehouses. There was a plan for Chouteau's Landing before the recession hit, which would help wake the area up and connect it better to Soulard. That fell through unfortunately. I think they got like two buildings on 4th street rehabbed.

Still crossing my fingers on Crunden Martin that we'll get someone to save it soon and convert it to residential. Not sure who would be signing up to live next to railroad trestles though.

bwcrow1s wrote:

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

FWIW the gas station is actually in Lasalle Park, not Downtown. I know, arbitrary lines along Chouteau be damned, but just chiming in.

Technically, yes, Lasalle Park, but literally one or two dozen feet from downtown, one block from Broadway Oyster, and three blocks from Busch Stadium. When I lived in the lower CBD I pretty much considered this and the Taco Bell across the street (which is technically in downtown) part of my neighborhood.

Gotcha. There isn't much going on in this part of town though. Broadway essentially becomes a highway into Downtown. It's got gas stations, fast food and abandoned warehouses. There was a plan for Chouteau's Landing before the recession hit, which would help wake the area up and connect it better to Soulard. That fell through unfortunately. I think they got like two buildings on 4th street rehabbed.

Still crossing my fingers on Crunden Martin that we'll get someone to save it soon and convert it to residential. Not sure who would be signing up to live next to railroad trestles though.

Yeah, I hear you. Despite being so close to Broadway Oyster and the stadium it does quickly become outskirt-esque right around there.

The trestles are pretty cool. I think SP (if not someone else) posted some good photography of them some time back.

I recall hearing not too long ago about a potential project at Vandeventer and (I want to say) Tower Grove Ave of a warehouse to residential that has heavy rail running right next to it. IIRC they were going to use special materials/soundproofing to avoid noise issues.

I might be pipe-dreaming here but it would be awesome to see something similar with modern design mixed into the historical fabric of that little area.

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

bwcrow1s wrote:

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

Technically, yes, Lasalle Park, but literally one or two dozen feet from downtown, one block from Broadway Oyster, and three blocks from Busch Stadium. When I lived in the lower CBD I pretty much considered this and the Taco Bell across the street (which is technically in downtown) part of my neighborhood.

Gotcha. There isn't much going on in this part of town though. Broadway essentially becomes a highway into Downtown. It's got gas stations, fast food and abandoned warehouses. There was a plan for Chouteau's Landing before the recession hit, which would help wake the area up and connect it better to Soulard. That fell through unfortunately. I think they got like two buildings on 4th street rehabbed.

Still crossing my fingers on Crunden Martin that we'll get someone to save it soon and convert it to residential. Not sure who would be signing up to live next to railroad trestles though.

Yeah, I hear you. Despite being so close to Broadway Oyster and the stadium it does quickly become outskirt-esque right around there.

The trestles are pretty cool. I think SP (if not someone else) posted some good photography of them some time back.

I recall hearing not too long ago about a potential project at Vandeventer and (I want to say) Tower Grove Ave of a warehouse to residential that has heavy rail running right next to it. IIRC they were going to use special materials/soundproofing to avoid noise issues.

I might be pipe-dreaming here but it would be awesome to see something similar with modern design mixed into the historical fabric of that little area.

Absolutely. Similar to Powell Square though, these warehouses are deteriorating (not to the extent of PS), and I'm worried that if something doesn't happen soon, that entire section of the riverfront is going to be leveled.

Can someone just give me millions of dollars?

bwcrow1s wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

Can someone just give me millions of dollars?

You betray yourself, Mr McKee...



-RBB

I just emailed someone at Advantes and they said they are "bullish" on the riverfront and to check back with them in 30 days as they are ironing out some kinks. For whatever that is worth.

^ Remind me: who is Advantes?

San Luis Native wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

Yeah, I hear you. Despite being so close to Broadway Oyster and the stadium it does quickly become outskirt-esque right around there.

The trestles are pretty cool. I think SP (if not someone else) posted some good photography of them some time back.

I recall hearing not too long ago about a potential project at Vandeventer and (I want to say) Tower Grove Ave of a warehouse to residential that has heavy rail running right next to it. IIRC they were going to use special materials/soundproofing to avoid noise issues.

I might be pipe-dreaming here but it would be awesome to see something similar with modern design mixed into the historical fabric of that little area.

Trains mostly don't travel through there too quickly, which helps. And there's no grade crossings, and thus no need for whistle signals, which also helps. Good sound proofing should go a long way. None of that is remotely as noisy as the elevated highway and when I was working at the Ramada Inn right next to the elevated section of what was then Seventy north of the depressed section we only got sporadic complaints. (Once in a while. We did get some. But they weren't remotely daily. Weekly, maybe.)

I want to say the original proposal for the Chouteau's Landing area was planned to be a little on the artier side rather than the techy side, which would have been interesting. Less profitable, but interesting to a composer, poet, and roustabout such as I. Of course . . . when the economy came crashing down the arts got a little buried in the debris. And it might take us a little longer to recover. Man, those late 90s dreams were exciting. It was looking to be a beautiful world. Kind of took a wrong turn at Albuquerque. On the other hand, maybe we're living in a new dream-time. There were a LOT of tech ads at the ballgame. (All those quotes from all those papers made their way to the jumbotron. Could have been reposting parts of the Cortex thread. The dreams are new again. Just . . . a little further from downtown.)

Also, yeah, I posted some pictures of the trestles through there. I've shot them several times and I'm sure I'll shoot them again. I love that tangle of bridges. If it was my pictures you saw, thank you SLN.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

^ Remind me: who is Advantes?

According to the article about the Landing development, the company that was going to redo the Metro HQ.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jul 01, 2017

Trains mostly don't travel through there too quickly, which helps. And there's no grade crossings, and thus no need for whistle signals, which also helps. Good sound proofing should go a long way. None of that is remotely as noisy as the elevated highway and when I was working at the Ramada Inn right next to the elevated section of what was then Seventy north of the depressed section we only got sporadic complaints. (Once in a while. We did get some. But they weren't remotely daily. Weekly, maybe.)

Interesting. Yeah, it's impressive what some quality soundproofing can achieve.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jul 01, 2017

Also, yeah, I posted some pictures of the trestles through there. I've shot them several times and I'm sure I'll shoot them again. I love that tangle of bridges. If it was my pictures you saw, thank you SLN.

Yes, I'm pretty sure they were photographs you had taken. Thanks, I enjoyed them.

Well, it looks like downtown survived the big Guns N' Roses show at the Dome so there's that!

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jul 28, 2017

Well, it looks like downtown survived the big Guns N' Roses show at the Dome so there's that!

Urban League National Convention + Guns And Roses + Cardinals Game. Washington Ave felt like midtown Manhattan and that's not an exaggeration. Although the demographics may have been a bit different.

aprice wrote:

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jul 28, 2017

Well, it looks like downtown survived the big Guns N' Roses show at the Dome so there's that!

Urban League National Convention + Guns And Roses + Cardinals Game. Washington Ave felt like midtown Manhattan and that's not an exaggeration. Although the demographics may have been a bit different.

I would have loved to see Downtown last night as busy as it was. I’m guessing over 100,000 people were down there last night when all 3 major events were taken into consideration

That does actually sound exciting.

Speaking of events/vitality levels, I think we need to accept the very real possibility that Cards attendance will be measurably lower in the coming years. (Went to my first Cards game of the year on Wednesday -- I'd say compared to most around the league it was still a decent crowd but the lowest I've ever experienced. Crowd was announced at 37,000 but actual had to be much less and there were several upper deck sections completely empty.)

If Cards don't turn around things on the field and consistently miss playoffs it's only going to get worse and we could be back into something reminiscent of the Joe Torre era... the question for local biz, etc. would be how much of an impact the loss of say 750,000- 1,000,000 game-day attendees would be if that happens.

STLrainbow wrote:Speaking of events/vitality levels, I think we need to accept the very real possibility that Cards attendance will be measurably lower in the coming years. (Went to my first Cards game of the year on Wednesday -- I'd say compared to most around the league it was still a decent crowd but the lowest I've ever experienced. Crowd was announced at 37,000 but actual had to be much less and there were several upper deck sections completely empty.)

If Cards don't turn around things on the field and consistently miss playoffs it's only going to get worse and we could be back into something reminiscent of the Joe Torre era... the question for local biz, etc. would be how much of an impact the loss of say 750,000- 1,000,000 game-day attendees would be if that happens.

Highly doubtful. The St Louis Cardinals are like the Green Bay Packers and the New York Yankees. They are a legendary team. People who visit St Louis usually go to their games as part of their visit. Even in their down years, attendance is usually around 3 million- which is EXTREMELY high compared to other markets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fans may spend more time at neighborhood establishments now. Every game I go to, half the people arrive in the third and/or leave in the seventh.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Jul 29, 2017

Highly doubtful. The St Louis Cardinals are like the Green Bay Packers and the New York Yankees. They are a legendary team. People who visit St Louis usually go to their games as part of their visit. Even in their down years, attendance is usually around 3 million- which is EXTREMELY high compared to other markets.

No doubt the Cardinals are a storied franchise but a look back at the 90's prove your argument wrong.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/team ... tend.shtml

Attendance steadily declined during the magical Torre years to the point where it had reached only 1.75M in 1995. Tony was hired for '96 and things started to get back on track to where Busch II cracked the 3M mark again for the '98 and '99 seasons, but I don't think there's any doubt attendance will slide considerably if the recent results on the field don't improve: that's just the way things work.

I could easily see us at an average of say 33,000 people attending games if we miss playoffs for another year or two... that would work out to about 2.67M a year and about 750-800K less than what has been reached the past few years. That roughly would be equivalent to a full Blues season, so again I just think it's interesting to consider how that might impact local biz if it does happen and in general DT stakeholders should have a plan for having less reliance on event fluctuation and becoming more self-reliant.

The Guns N Roses concert was a boon for Washington Ave. Bars and restaurants were packed for 3 days because of it. Awesome to see the area that lively.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jul 29, 2017

Speaking of events/vitality levels, I think we need to accept the very real possibility that Cards attendance will be measurably lower in the coming years. (Went to my first Cards game of the year on Wednesday -- I'd say compared to most around the league it was still a decent crowd but the lowest I've ever experienced. Crowd was announced at 37,000 but actual had to be much less and there were several upper deck sections completely empty.)

If Cards don't turn around things on the field and consistently miss playoffs it's only going to get worse and we could be back into something reminiscent of the Joe Torre era... the question for local biz, etc. would be how much of an impact the loss of say 750,000- 1,000,000 game-day attendees would be if that happens.

I think there's something to this actually. Pre/post game crowds in Soulard seem to be down this year.

At the game tonight they had the most tickets sold in the history of the stadium. This includes World Series games. So I think attendance is in good shape. I know not everyone is showing up which isn't ideal, but even if they were to have a couple rough seasons I can't see attendance going into a tailspin. I think the base will be good either way.

soulardx wrote: ↑

Jul 30, 2017

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Jul 29, 2017

Speaking of events/vitality levels, I think we need to accept the very real possibility that Cards attendance will be measurably lower in the coming years. (Went to my first Cards game of the year on Wednesday -- I'd say compared to most around the league it was still a decent crowd but the lowest I've ever experienced. Crowd was announced at 37,000 but actual had to be much less and there were several upper deck sections completely empty.)

If Cards don't turn around things on the field and consistently miss playoffs it's only going to get worse and we could be back into something reminiscent of the Joe Torre era... the question for local biz, etc. would be how much of an impact the loss of say 750,000- 1,000,000 game-day attendees would be if that happens.

I think there's something to this actually. Pre/post game crowds in Soulard seem to be down this year.

Ballpark Village

A not insignificant part of these record crowds has to be folks who buy the ballpark pass ($30/month, recurring) for standing room to every game, new this year.

Judging by the number on my ticket, there are like 1500 of those. Not sure many of those people are actual new attendance, rather just the Cards skimming money from those who'd otherwise just buy cheap tickets from StubHub.

Either way, there are huge discrepancies from announced to actual attendance. Just look at Thursday's crowd, where not one section is more than half full.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFyEFPHUQAA0bwB.jpg:large