Ballpark Village

chriss752 · PostJun 25, 2017#28512017-06-25T19:06+00:00

Its a few weeks old, but still includes some interesting insight on the project. the tower is no longer 29 Floors, it is 30 and the opening may have been pushed back. Here is the quote form the STLToday Article.

PHASE 2 NEARS

As the Cardinals and The Cordish Companies prep for the “dirt moving and cranes” that will signal the start of Ballpark Village’s Phase 2, they learned this past week that they are a finalist for an international development award. Ballpark Village was nominated for an Urban Land Institutes 2017 Global Award of Excellence, and the Busch Stadium offshoot was selected as one of 25 finalists. The other developments include a city center in Miami, a project in Spain, a “smart city” in Japan, and developments in Singapore, Germany, Canada, and Kansas City.

Blake Cordish, a principal at the family company and president of its real estate development division, said part of the award is being “a catalyst for other developments. … One of the first times using a sports stadium as an anchor for a much broad mixed-use development.”

Winners of the award will be announced in the fall.
Phase 2 of the project is set to include a business office, a high-rise luxury apartment building, and five times the space of the current entertainment hub. The apartment building, which could reach 30 stories, will alter the skyline view from the ballpark, blocking the signature Gateway Arch from some seats and blocking the courthouse from others. Club president Bill DeWitt III said there will be “windows able to see the courthouse.” Construction is targeted to begin at the end of this year or early next, and asked if that means opening day 2020 is the likely unveiling of the three-block addition, DeWitt said: “Before then we hope to cut a few ribbons.”

Chalupas54 · PostJun 25, 2017#28522017-06-25T19:15+00:00

This project is a crock. Could? So I would assume that the renderings we were provided are no longer valid.

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chriss752 · PostJun 25, 2017#28532017-06-25T20:36+00:00

Chalupas54 wrote:This project is a crock. Could? So I would assume that the renderings we were provided are no longer valid.

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I would assume it. If the tower is higher, there may have been a change.

chaifetz10 · PostJun 26, 2017#28542017-06-26T11:33+00:00

Tweaks, yes. A complete re-planning of the remaining site? Probably not. If they've spent big bucks on actual architectural and engineering plans then I don't see them tossing them away because of an extra floor.

wabash · PostJun 26, 2017#28552017-06-26T15:30+00:00

^Is there any reason to think they've spent big bucks on architectural or engineering plans? Any more so than all of the other plans they've completely abandoned?

chaifetz10 · PostJun 26, 2017#28562017-06-26T19:20+00:00

Take it with a grain of salt (because I'm an anonymous stranger on an internet board), but I was told yes.

STLrainbow · PostJun 26, 2017#28572017-06-26T21:23+00:00

^ fwiw, the slight change is entirely in keeping with the KMOX interview with Junior I mentioned... he said they are in the midst of pre-development work and completing design. His affect sounded of relief imo and that he really felt this was going to move forward; unlike more recent years where he was a lot more cautious after the real embarrassments of previous optimism a few years back.

Not to say that another financial tightening, etc. can't came along and doom this thing again, but otherwise I think this is going to happen.

goat314 · PostJun 26, 2017#28582017-06-26T22:18+00:00

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/06/13/ ... xcellence/

chriss752 · PostJun 27, 2017#28592017-06-27T00:10+00:00

So there is a slight height bump by like, 10 feet or so? Both the STLToday Article and Black Cordish say the Tower is 30 stories. Great! Now we just need the office tower to gain SOME height. How about 10 to 15 floors.

chaifetz10 · PostJun 27, 2017#28602017-06-27T11:47+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Jun 27, 2017
So there is a slight height bump by like, 10 feet or so? Both the STLToday Article and Black Cordish say the Tower is 30 stories. Great! Now we just need the office tower to gain SOME height. How about 10 to 15 floors.

Let's just get this tower started before we get too antsy over the hypothetical height of future phases. And no actual height increase has been released, just guesstimates by all at the moment.

goat314 · PostJun 27, 2017#28612017-06-27T14:24+00:00

I have a theory on Cordish and BPV in general. I think Cordish builds additional phases when they feel the prior phases are getting stale (KC Power and Light?). By the time BPVII gets started, Union Station, the Foundry, and Armory will already be in full swing and potentially infringing on their market...boom another phases is built to reinvigorate the project and keep people talking about it. Smart marketing if you ask me, but obviously not good for downtowns overall development.

dredger · PostJun 27, 2017#28622017-06-27T16:39+00:00

goat314 wrote: ↑
Jun 27, 2017
I have a theory on Cordish and BPV in general. I think Cordish builds additional phases when they feel the prior phases are getting stale (KC Power and Light?). By the time BPVII gets started, Union Station, the Foundry, and Armory will already be in full swing and potentially infringing on their market...boom another phases is built to reinvigorate the project and keep people talking about it. Smart marketing if you ask me, but obviously not good for downtowns overall development.

I have a slightly different take, Cordish will build if either the local entity covers bond payment risk like KC did with power & light at tune of $10 million a year or until incentives, lease agreements, and market gives them a high rate of return with low risk by real estate industry standards. So in principle a number of projects going forward would mean a much more favorable market/demand and lower risk for investors

I'm curious how CORTEX proceeds forward versus Foundry & Armory phase II. Cortex having residential/garage on hold as well as Aloft suggests an opening for Foundry & Armory to be aggressive in getting their respective phases of the ground.

jshank83 · PostJul 13, 2017#28632017-07-13T16:52+00:00

Ballpark village has has filed their first building permit (for zoning) according to Greg Johnson

framer · PostJul 13, 2017#28642017-07-13T17:20+00:00

(subdued excitement)

joelo · PostJul 13, 2017#28652017-07-13T17:30+00:00

framer wrote: ↑
Jul 13, 2017
(subdued excitement)

one handed clap

chriss752 · PostJul 13, 2017#28662017-07-13T17:52+00:00

Why the Hell do you need a building permit to ZONE the property?

debaliviere · PostJul 13, 2017#28672017-07-13T19:00+00:00

framer wrote: ↑
Jul 13, 2017
(subdued excitement)

(shrug)

MattnSTL · PostJul 13, 2017#28682017-07-13T19:22+00:00

To answer the question of why was a building permit for zoning only filed, that is how you start the process of getting any zoning variances needed approved by the Board of Adjustment. This is a pretty common thing, especially on larger projects that a one-size fits all zoning code that hasn't been updated in a while doesn't accommodate, or where you want to do something that we would consider more urban and desirable than the code allows for by right. To appeal the zoning code, you first have to be turned down. So you file a set of plans that is complete enough to show what is intended to be built, pay the $25 application fee, then get your denial by the Building Commissioner. After your get your letter, you pay a $200 fee to appeal it. When the hearing is scheduled, zoning will present the basis of denial, the applicant can present their case and any support from residents, Aldermen, etc, and anyone opposed can also present their case. The Board then makes a decision to grant the variances, grant with conditions, or deny. Usually variances are granted with conditions. I've taken a couple projects through including my own garage successfully, spoken in support of some, and spoken in opposition to others. It's a fairly simple process, and I find the Board of Adjustment to be made up of fair minded people that are willing to listen to and consider all sides.

PostJul 13, 2017#28692017-07-13T20:58+00:00

To add a little more, this is a good thing if you want to see progress. If they are going for zoning approval, they have plans developed enough to show sufficient detail for any needed variances and conditional uses, and they wouldn't be wasting time getting those approvals if they aren't planning on moving forward. It usually takes a couple months to get on a Board of Adjustment agenda (I'm just assuming they need variances), so probably looking at sometime in September for the hearing. If the construction docs are moving along to the full set needed for getting the building permit and financing is lined up, I think we could still see work starting in the 4th quarter of 2017.

JaredOpsal · PostJul 13, 2017#28702017-07-13T21:09+00:00

MattnSTL wrote: ↑
Jul 13, 2017
To answer the question of why was a building permit for zoning only filed, that is how you start the process of getting any zoning variances needed approved by the Board of Adjustment. This is a pretty common thing, especially on larger projects that a one-size fits all zoning code that hasn't been updated in a while doesn't accommodate, or where you want to do something that we would consider more urban and desirable than the code allows for by right. To appeal the zoning code, you first have to be turned down. So you file a set of plans that is complete enough to show what is intended to be built, pay the $25 application fee, then get your denial by the Building Commissioner. After your get your letter, you pay a $200 fee to appeal it. When the hearing is scheduled, zoning will present the basis of denial, the applicant can present their case and any support from residents, Aldermen, etc, and anyone opposed can also present their case. The Board then makes a decision to grant the variances, grant with conditions, or deny. Usually variances are granted with conditions. I've taken a couple projects through including my own garage successfully, spoken in support of some, and spoken in opposition to others. It's a fairly simple process, and I find the Board of Adjustment to be made up of fair minded people that are willing to listen to and consider all sides.

Such an efficient system...

symphonicpoet · PostJul 14, 2017#28712017-07-14T06:41+00:00

For doing something complicated and out of the ordinary it doesn't actually sound that bad to me. If I understand Matt correctly this is the process if you need a variance. If you don't it should be smoother. My only interaction with the permit gang so far was pretty smooth, even though I was a complete newb and I was asking a question for someone else. (My wife and I have become unofficial translators [in her case] and go-betweens for a fair chunk of the Vietnamese community on the South Side. And only barely unofficial.)

moorlander · PostJul 14, 2017#28722017-07-14T13:27+00:00

Cordish to break ground on next phase of Ballpark Village by end of year

Committing to a construction start would suggest officials with the Cardinals and Cordish feel confident enough in the office portion of the project, which would likely need an anchor tenant before moving forward.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... j=78548151

soulardx · PostJul 14, 2017#28732017-07-14T13:49+00:00

Proper to bemoan the fact that the anchor tenant in the office tower will be an existing downtown business (PwC)?

Or should we be OK with it, as PwC may have looked beyond downtown STL without new Class A space?

In my eyes, the fact that downtown Clayton and downtown STL compete for the region's major businesses is exhibit A on how broken/fractured this region is. A slow-growth, mid-sized city doesn't need two CBDs. Too late tho.

bwcrow1s · PostJul 14, 2017#28742017-07-14T14:50+00:00

soulardx wrote: ↑
Jul 14, 2017
Proper to bemoan the fact that the anchor tenant in the office tower will be an existing downtown business (PwC)?

Or should we be OK with it, as PwC may have looked beyond downtown STL without new Class A space?

In my eyes, the fact that downtown Clayton and downtown STL compete for the region's major businesses is exhibit A on how broken/fractured this region is. A slow-growth, mid-sized city doesn't need two CBDs. Too late tho.

Agreed. Centene would have been prime.

Who else would be able to take on the office space? I would hate to just be shifting jobs and leaving vacancy in their wake.
Asynchrony is seemingly staying put in Cupples which I'm fine with.

wabash · PostJul 14, 2017#28752017-07-14T16:01+00:00

^Nestle Purina or Spire are logical options for leasing overflow space.

As for retail, it might be a total snoozer of a tenant, but Enterprise Bank & Trust is now the fourth largest bank in the metro and growing quickly. The four other top 5 banks have Downtown locations. If they wanted a Downtown branch that doubles as marketing/advertising of their brand, BPV would be the place.

Ballpark Village

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