urbanSTL

jshank83 wrote:

matguy70 wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

Gate E29 is temporarily being used by SWA for outbound flights. The gate does not has permanent boarding number towers at it (only temporary ones) and according to SWA - they will lose this gate when they move into the new gates on the old (now new) E concourse. E31 is permanent for them. E29 is for international arrivals only now and will continue to be. I have a feeling this is why the new international lounge is being built adjacent to the customs/arrival gate and future departing international routes for international carriers only will also stay at this gate.

I still think if it is BA, that they will fly out of C. They are partners with AA so it makes sense to me that they are in the same concourse. I doubt you would have many connections but it at least gives you the chance to have a few. I also do not know if there is enough room by E29 for the amount of passengers on an international route (unless Southwest vacated 31 and/or 33). If you put them in C you can open up as much as is needed to make sure they have room. Just turning a plane around and moving it from E to C after offloading shouldn't be a big deal.

I also think the new lounge is going to be more focused for the Southwest customers that are here during layovers and need a place to go to work/etc. If it would be someone more like Condor/Wow/Norwegian then I could see them possibly flying out of E. If it is Lufthansa, then I don't know. I don't know if any gates in A are set up for over the ocean planes. It would make sense to have it by United but I am not sure I can see them in A.

I believe there are only two gates at Lambert currently that are able to handle 757+, those being a gate in C and E29.


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To the comment above, I know A can hold a 757 as DL occasionally has a STL-ATL flight. Not sure if this gate holds a plane larger than that.

Delta usually has 2 757-200 series birds every day. I've seen United park a 300 series on A16 in the past.

^oh yes. I have seen those on flightaware. duh. Thanks for the reminder. Can a gate that can handle a 757, handle a 787? I am not sure on height differences off the ground,etc.

I guess they could add jetway that fits anywhere though.

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

No; the 757 needs a Code D gate, the 787 needs a Code E gate.

Thanks for the info!


In other news, I was looking through the March Airport Commission meeting.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/documents ... inutes.pdf

It says Southwest will be using 17 gates. That means they must be taking all the new gates since they are at 13 right now. Also mentions 2.2 millions dollars of upgrades by Southwest are anticipated in the future.

jshank83 wrote:

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

No; the 757 needs a Code D gate, the 787 needs a Code E gate.

Thanks for the info!


In other news, I was looking through the March Airport Commission meeting.

http://www.flystl.com/uploads/documents ... inutes.pdf

It says Southwest will be using 17 gates. That means they must be taking all the new gates since they are at 13 right now. Also mentions 2.2 millions dollars of upgrades by Southwest are anticipated in the future.

17 gates will put us in the top 10 Southwest markets will it not?


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Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

17 gates will put us in the top 10 Southwest markets will it not?

The number of gates is never reliably used as a measure of an airline's size.

gregl wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Apr 11, 2017

17 gates will put us in the top 10 Southwest markets will it not?

The number of gates is never reliably used as a measure of an airline's size.

This lists the top 10 markets in 2016 and gates they used. So Greg is correct. We will be at 109 and 17 gates in summer but Dallas for example was 18 gates and 180 flights. Houston and PHX had more gates and less flights than Dallas

https://www.swamedia.com/channels/Corpo ... eet#cities

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Apr 12, 2017

So what's the deal with gate E2? The wiki page says it hasn't been used since December. Is this due to the relative inconvenience of its location on the terminal or just lack of need?

I don't even think it exists anymore. I think it was too hard to get back into it with E4 in use. Especially, with the new parking lot. I don't think it has been in use for awhile (longer than the wiki says).

Seems very weird to me to see Southwest add four gates this year while not adding many new flights a day over last year. They would almost have to be planning a noticeable increase in flights not announced yet for next year when planes are available to add flights. Also it could be they want to not use E31 and E33 as much since it could be less available if those are used up for international arrivals by other airlines or possibly their own so these gates they are getting would add. Basically you wouldn't need to get this many gates unless you expect to need the capacity in the near future, and with whats scheduled so far it doesn't line up with it. It seems there should be at least 10 if not near 20 more flights a day added at some point to justify 4 more gates. Though what those could be I'm not fully sure.

I think they were at 100 during the summer last year. This year they are at 109. So it is plus 9. Still, 4 gates seems like overkill though. The only thing I can think of is they have a couple banks they want to load up on flights, instead of spreading them out over the day.

I will say this however. SWA has been having gate issues at STL. During peaks, some aircraft will wait 20+ minutes for a gate to open up.


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I can see this being the case. I actually made a spreadsheet showing the Southwest Departures and Arrivals to illustrate patterns. Unfortunately I don't see any way to upload it here since it does show that as much as Southwest says they don't do banked hub operations, they definitely operate a hub structure here with banks and there are definite patterns involved in it. I used a summer weekday to chart the schedule.

I'd like to make a few observational notes on it more but want to wait until i could post the info I put together so others can see.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Apr 15, 2017

I can see this being the case. I actually made a spreadsheet showing the Southwest Departures and Arrivals to illustrate patterns. Unfortunately I don't see any way to upload it here since it does show that as much as Southwest says they don't do banked hub operations, they definitely operate a hub structure here with banks and there are definite patterns involved in it. I used a summer weekday to chart the schedule.

I'd like to make a few observational notes on it more but want to wait until i could post the info I put together so others can see.

How many banks do they have here?

It looks like four sizable ones with two morning ones and two evening ones. Also i noticed some definate directional patterns as well. First group of arrivals is a group of places between Mississippi River and Rockies with departures to points east. 2nd morning wave is points east arriving with departures generally going to the same places as first arrivals. Evening repeats the pattern. The two morning banks seems to also have a few departures and arrivials between the two as well and the afternoons don't really bank except maybe a minor one mid-afternoon. I have it broken down into half hour blocks showing every arrival and departure location and time. Could see that maybe the extra gates will really help in those time periods in case theres weather issues somewhere as well as possibly tie a couple more flights into the banks, especially anything with one frequency now since those seem to be done midday.

I heard they will be increasing to 6 banks this summer.

Looking at this upcoming Monday.

There are 9 flights that leave around 1:30

10 that leave around 3:30.

I don't know if those continue in your data for summer though.

Those aren't full but a pretty good number, for the gates they have now.

I was under the impression that had 6 banks going.

I have an odd feeling I may have shot nearly an entire inbound bank the other night. Mind you, these aren't all great photos, but let me see if I can illustrate . . .

All my times are from the XIF information on my camera. I was almost directly under the approach path to 12R and 12L approaches were all easily visible. (11 approaches would have been quite visible as well, had there been any, but I don't believe there were.) Arrival times were mostly six to seven minutes after my photographs:


6:37pm - WN63 from Wichita.


6:38 - "Lindbergh 4478" from ORD (GoJet operating as United Express.)


6:39 - WN1745 from Will Rogers World OKC


6:41 - WN1600 from DesMoines


6:45 - WN4517 from San Antonio


6:47 - WN1759 from Eppley Airfield (Omaha)


6:49 - WN2496 from LIT (Clinton National Little Rock. It may be LIT, but that doesn't mean you have to inhale . . . wait . . . )


6:51 - EDV3645 from MSP (Operating as Delta Connection. An interloper.)


6:53 - WN1440 from Midway


6:55 - WN1719 from MCI (Mid Continent International. KCI, if you will.)


6:55 - WN1627 from Tulsa


7:01 - WN1728 from William P Hobby (Houston)


7:04 - AWI4157 from Philadelphia (Operating as American Eagle.) . . . (American, Philadelphia, Wisconsin. That is positively the cheesiest.)


7:06 - WN368 from Orlando


7:08 - N777ZL (A Dassault Falcon from Aurora. General Aviation. Pants: fancy. Another interloper.)


7:11 - WBR2710 from Jonesboro (Air Choice One. Weber. As in Fred's Construction? Should ask.)


7:13 - WN4053 from LaGuardia


7:16 - WN707 from MSP


7:20 - KAP1 from KUIN (Where the ICAO Lid really does make more sense . . . in a punnish way. KUIN = Quincy.)


7:24 - WN4430 from SW Florida

And I believe that's literally every flight that arrived from 6:43 to 7:30, so a period of just about forty five minutes, during which time there were twenty arrivals, fourteen of which were newer model orange and blue 737s. And as I was shooting the last inbound flights the first arrivals were doubtless taking off for points in the opposite direction. WN turns their planes around quick-like. Things tapered off a little after that, and I think they were slower beforehand. (But they're darned busy around 3:30 to maybe 4:30 as well, if my ears are any guide. I live beneath a procedure turn for 30L and R for arrivals from the SW.) But all told, that's just a bit shy of one every two minutes. Not quite the old TWA days . . . but for a brief span it can seem close. I shudder to think what a madhouse the east terminal is before and during a bank. It's got to be bursting at the seams. So . . . is that about a bank there? I think?

Yes, thats exactly when the first arrival bank of the evening comes in from what i put together, when a group of flights from the central states comes in and then leave as flights going east. Also if anyone wants to they can PM me and i could email you my table to see what I made.

Hey, been reading this thread for several months, just never got around to registering and posting. Moved back to the STl area about a year ago, and fly about once every 2 weeks for business.

Looking at the times of the pictures posted, looks like SW uses 11-12 gates for that bank. Figuring 30 minute turnarounds.

As others have posted it seems 50% of my return flights have to wait 5-10 minutes for an open gate. Had a few up into the 20min range.

Looks like Frontier is adding a 2nd daily flight to Orlando starting in mid October.