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PostApr 27, 2017#3176

Does anyone think that Southwest would possible put forth or entertain being a private operator of Terminal T2?

I don't believe they will put forth such a proposal but wonder if Southwest Executives would see this as a way to control things versus a private operator coming into the mix as well as a test bed if current admin pushes the idea of private operators which I believe are much more common outside US. Plus, gives them the opportunity to become private operator of international gates which is another intriguing idea for better or worse.
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PostApr 27, 2017#3177

According to the Charleston Airport twitter feed STL-CHS has already been upgraded to daily nonstop for the summer. It was just supposed to be Sat/Sun.

The article they put out about March passenger numbers said it was daily but I thought it was a typo since it hadn't been announced as daily yet.
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PostMay 01, 2017#3178

Its a bit of a surprise they did decide to go daily this fast and only a few weeks beforehand. This is generally not something they do. I did take advantage of this and booked a trip for myself since there are intro fare sales for during the week. Interesting is the times of day the flight is, it is going to largely be local traffic since almost all connection possibilities would involve long layovers.

If this does well it does make me think there may be a number of other destinations not served that could be viable, especially since this one won't have much of the connecting traffic to help fill it.
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PostMay 01, 2017#3179

imperialmog wrote: ↑
May 01, 2017
 Its a bit of a surprise they did decide to go daily this fast and only a few weeks beforehand. This is generally not something they do. I did take advantage of this and booked a trip for myself since there are intro fare sales for during the week. Interesting is the times of day the flight is, it is going to largely be local traffic since almost all connection possibilities would involve long layovers.

If this does well it does make me think there may be a number of other destinations not served that could be viable, especially since this one won't have much of the connecting traffic to help fill it.
It kind of depends where they are connecting from.

I don't know how many people travel from west coast to CHS. But I would imagine the people from CHS travel to the west coast more than west coast people travel to CHS. Either way the below have decent connection times. Most of these are 90 minutes or less. I only looked going west to east.

LAX-STL-CHS
OAK-STL-CHS
SFO-STL-CHS (this one is a little long 2 1/2 hours)
SEA-STL-CHS (does have a nonstop on Alaska)
SAN-STL-CHS
AUS-STL-CHS
MKE-STL-CHS (3 hrs but only 3 flight options)
OMA-STL-CHS
DAL-STL-CHS (again long 2 1/2 but the last flight of the day) (does have a nonstop on AA from DFW)
PDX-STL-CHS (2:15 long)
MCI-STL-CHS

You might be able to throw out the 2 hour ones but the others seem doable. You also have to factor in that I doubt CHS is easy to get to from a lot of places so you might have to deal with longer layovers in general.

PostMay 01, 2017#3180

Has anyone been in the Southwest terminal in the last week or two and been able to look to see how the new area is coming along? or do they have it blocked off with sheeting?
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PostMay 02, 2017#3181

Flew out of T2 today from gate E36. It is really coming together down there. I didn't get to walk down further because I was running behind. T2 was bustling today even at 1:00 PM in the afternoon. The bar down by my gate was full of patrons. Seems like really positive things are happening, at least in Terminal 2.
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PostMay 03, 2017#3182

http://www.flystl.com/newsroom/stl-news ... enger-club

Includes a picture.

We now know who is going to run the Common Use Club

The Airport Commission also voted to approve a contract for the Airport’s first “Common Use’ club, slated to be built in the newly re-opened area in the west end of Terminal 2. The 10-year agreement is with St. Louis-based Airport Terminal Services, dba Wingtips, which currently operates Wingtips in New York’s JFK T4 and manages Lufthansa’s Senator Club at Detroit Metropolitan airports. Pending final approval of the agreement, the Wingtips club will be constructed near gate E-31 and will have many of the same amenities as airline clubs (food, beverages, and private work stations). It would be open to all passengers for a daily use fee. The 10-year contract sets a minimal annual revenue guarantee to the Airport of $3,454,465.

Enterprise moving lots?

The Airport Commission also gave the first approval to a revenue agreement with Enterprise Leasing Company of STL, LLC for the use of a 17.8 acre paved parking lot at 4401 Springdale Ave. The five-year agreement (plus a five-year option) amounts to $120,000 per year in new revenues.


Website for the JFK Wingtips

http://wingtipslounge.com/
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PostMay 04, 2017#3183

gary kreie wrote: ↑
Apr 20, 2017
 Here is an interesting picture of the aviation and road noise for the area from the US Dept of Transportation.
At this link, you can put in an exact address to get a zoomed in reading on the noise at your house.

https://maps.bts.dot.gov/MapGallery/map ... d08fc7f3f9

Everyone always ignores trains. :x
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PostMay 04, 2017#3184

Nifty!
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PostMay 04, 2017#3185

jshank83 wrote: ↑
May 03, 2017
 We now know who is going to run the Common Use Club

The 10-year agreement is with St. Louis-based Airport Terminal Services, dba Wingtips, which currently operates Wingtips in New York’s JFK T4 and manages Lufthansa’s Senator Club at Detroit Metropolitan airports.
The JFK Wingtips lounge is accessible via Priority Pass, which I suspect will be the case at Lambert as well.

Greg
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PostMay 04, 2017#3186

^ list of the ones JFK allows. I would expect it to be the same.

Day Passes Available – Experience the perks of an executive lounge without the price of a first-class ticket. Day passes are available to all passengers departing from JFK Terminal 4 for $50. Day passes are valid for up to 4 hours from time of entry and include all complimentary amenities.

Wingtips Partner Airlines – Welcoming premium passengers from Wingtips Partner Airlines.
• Air Europa
• Caribbean
• China Airlines
• China Southern
• Kuwait
• Pakistan
• Singapore
• Uzbekistan
• Xiamen Air

Network Members – Proudly accepting members belonging to select networks.
• Priority Pass
• Lounge Club
• Diner’s Club
• DragonPass
• LoungeKey
• LoungeBuddy
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PostMay 04, 2017#3187

jshank83 wrote: ↑
May 04, 2017
 Network Members – Proudly accepting members belonging to select networks.
• Priority Pass
• Lounge Club
• Diner’s Club
• DragonPass
• LoungeKey
• LoungeBuddy
The airlines listed probably won't count because those are airport specific. But, the networks listed will likely participate.

The American Express Platinum card is expensive ($550/year) but offers a $200/year airline fee credit (think Early Bird Checkin), a $200/year Uber credit, free TSA Precheck or Global Entry application ($85 or $100) and unlimited Priority Pass access for you and a guest.

For someone flying Southwest frequently who thinks they would want to use this lounge, the cost can be fairly minimal overall.

Greg
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PostMay 09, 2017#3188

Connected through STL last night on my way to OMA from EWR via SWA. Each time I fly through T2, it seems to get more and more congested. It's nice to see Vino Volo getting expanded, as well as numerous amenity upgrades throughout the terminal. 2 of the 4 jet bridges are installed for the expansion. Also, our departure out of STL last night (around 9:50 PM CT) was incredibly steep. Does KSTL have a noise abatement procedure? Either way, I really enjoy Lambert now.

Also, there were only 35 people on my flight from St Louis to Omaha.
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PostMay 09, 2017#3189

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
May 09, 2017
Connected through STL last night on my way to OMA from EWR via SWA. Each time I fly through T2, it seems to get more and more congested. It's nice to see Vino Volo getting expanded, as well as numerous amenity upgrades throughout the terminal. 2 of the 4 jet bridges are installed for the expansion.
Not sure why, but in recent weeks, I've been creating mock airports—creating diagrams of airports in a few cities and and seeing what I can do to reconfiguring them to make them more efficient or to greatly increase their capacity (though not in a practical way, usually). So far, I've done some sketches for PHL, JFK, and STL.

One stat I've been particularly interested in is passengers per linear foot of apron frontage per year (better than passengers per gate since the wingspan of A380 takes up much more space than a 737). Many larger airports seem to hover around 2,400 to 3,200 passengers per linear foot. Airports that are at or near terminal capacity such as Atlanta or Chicago-Midway reach 4,000 passengers per linear foot.

Looking at Lambert's Terminal 2, Southwest's operations exceed 4,400(!) passengers per linear foot across an estimated 1,750 feet of apron frontage, the highest value I've calculated thus far. In other words, Southwest could -really- benefit from some additional gates.

So Terminal 2 is incredibly crowded, but the open portions of Terminal 1—concourses A and C—are why Lambert sometimes gets a "ghost town" reputation: barely 1,000 passengers per linear foot.
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PostMay 09, 2017#3190

* Curious, did you take all available linear feet or just current gates in use? Doesn't help that STL has a lot of tarmac dead space between C and D IMO as well as the old Air National grade facilities at end of A. I assume you didn't take in account B and most of D but not sure. .
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PostMay 09, 2017#3191

^ For Terminal 2, just the gates Southwest currently uses. For Terminal 1, all of concourse A and the open part of concourse C (including vacant gates). Excluded were concourse B, concourse D, and concourse C beyond C28(?).
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PostMay 09, 2017#3192

mill204 wrote: ↑
May 09, 2017
 ^ For Terminal 2, just the gates Southwest currently uses. For Terminal 1, all of concourse A and the open part of concourse C (including vacant gates). Excluded were concourse B, concourse D, and concourse C beyond C28(?).
What does that number change to once you add the extra gates for Southwest opening in June. Just add something like 8% more passengers to last summer's numbers.
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PostMay 10, 2017#3193

jshank83 wrote: ↑
May 09, 2017
What does that number change to once you add the extra gates for Southwest opening in June. Just add something like 8% more passengers to last summer's numbers.
4,400 passengers per linear foot
× 13 gates Southwest occupies today
÷ ( 13 + n ) gates Southwest will occupy in the future
× ( 1 + r ) rate of increase of passengers for Southwest
= future value for passengers per linear foot

So, if Southwest decides to occupy all 4 additional gates and gets 8% additional passengers, then the new value will be 3,634 passengers per linear foot which is high but much more manageable than the airline's current terminal crowding. (this formula is possible only because Southwest uses the same plane for their entire fleet)
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PostMay 10, 2017#3194

^ thanks Mill


I have another question/comment for whoever can answer. I was driving by the airport tonight around 9:10 pm and noticed two planes that seemed way to close together for landing in line. Once I got closer, I realized they were landing on different runways. One was on 30L and one was on 30R. How often does this happen? It seems like anytime I am around the airport watching that one of them is for takeoffs and one for landings. The only time I have seen them use two different runways for takeoffs or landings is when someone out of A is using the newest runway. I can't remember seeing both of the main runways being used for the same thing at the same time before.

I figure some of you on here would know if that is common or not though. Maybe it happens more than I know.
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PostMay 10, 2017#3195

jshank83 wrote: ↑
May 10, 2017
 I have another question/comment for whoever can answer. I was driving by the airport tonight around 9:10 pm and noticed two planes that seemed way to close together for landing in line. Once I got closer, I realized they were landing on different runways. One was on 30L and one was on 30R. How often does this happen? It seems like anytime I am around the airport watching that one of them is for takeoffs and one for landings. The only time I have seen them use two different runways for takeoffs or landings is when someone out of A is using the newest runway. I can't remember seeing both of the main runways being used for the same thing at the same time before.
As you have already observed, today, typical runway operations involve using the northern runway for operations to/from the east and the middle runway for operations to/from the west (reference). Simultaneous approaches to the two main runways during west flow operations is not common, but does occur on occasion every day during clear skies.

In 1998, back when Lambert had more traffic and more need (and 1 less runway), the airport installed a precision runway monitor (PRM) to permit them to perform simultaneous arrivals to runways 30L and 30R during clear weather only. This is because the two runways are separated by only 1,300 feet whereas simultaneous arrivals without a PRM typically require 4,300 ft of lateral separation or more between runways. (SFO example of how PRM approaches work)
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PostMay 10, 2017#3196

Interesting noting the airport crowding and how dense it can be at times especially during the banks. Could also explain why the need to add amenities in the terminal to handle the crowds.

Related a bit to this and referencing the earlier comments about not having a good map of terminal facilities and amenities. One thing I have been doing as a hobby is mapmaking for openstreetmap, which I started after learning its use in Pokémon Go. We could help fill in the airport for that map to have an updated detail, since currently on that there isn't much detail as of now and Concource C and E are empty on it. Some airports have been very well detailed by people and serve as examples.
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PostMay 10, 2017#3197

Wow, that's actually not surprising regarding the high amount of passengers. The only detraction I would make from the airport is they have this VERY joke-ish technology booth across from the Chilis. Also, could someone explain why STL has such an extreme departure angle after 8:30? I've flown through all hours of the day, and the times I've departed after 8:30 the departure angle has been incredibly steep. This has occurred on American and Southwest. The only reason I took note is because the takeoffs actually felt violent and somewhat intense. Anyone have any answers? Maybe a noise abatement?
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PostMay 10, 2017#3198

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
May 10, 2017
 Wow, that's actually not surprising regarding the high amount of passengers. The only detraction I would make from the airport is they have this VERY joke-ish technology booth across from the Chilis. Also, could someone explain why STL has such an extreme departure angle after 8:30? I've flown through all hours of the day, and the times I've departed after 8:30 the departure angle has been incredibly steep. This has occurred on American and Southwest. The only reason I took note is because the takeoffs actually felt violent and somewhat intense. Anyone have any answers? Maybe a noise abatement?
You might be able to find it in here somewhere.

http://www.flystl.com/about-us/noise-program

PostMay 10, 2017#3199

JetBlue probably adding 4 cities in the next year. I would think we would have to be getting close.

Industry Insider: Marty St. George, Executive Vice President – Commercial & Planning JetBlue Airways


We're in constant contact with between 16 and 20 cities that are trying to put themselves into the bullpen as the next place we go. We build those relationships over time. When we get down to the short list — and we're thinking next year it may be four cities — that's where we really kick into our local outreach. That includes things like visiting the cities, talking to large corporations and looking at standard travel patterns.

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/122 ... ue-airways
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PostMay 11, 2017#3200

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑
May 09, 2017
 Also, our departure out of STL last night (around 9:50 PM CT) was incredibly steep.

Also, there were only 35 people on my flight from St Louis to Omaha.
I think your second sentence answers the question in the first sentence.

Aircraft with limited payload on short flights can take off much faster / steeper than full flights on a long flight.

Greg
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