Exactly. This should be handled by the city and CID money should be going to other improvements.bprop wrote: ↑Mar 16, 2017Why does the downtown CID have to pay extra for police protection? This isn't so much augmenting existing patrols (which are entirely inadequate and have been getting worse for over the past five years), but paying for a basic service.
I can't help but think of Metro, which has claimed that they've doubled police protection on the system - by paying for more officers - but in fact anybody who's a regular rider knows that there is less officer presence today than a year ago, and far less than even five years ago.
Where is all this extra money going with nothing to show for it? In what way will the supposed extra police protection downtown be measured and guaranteed?
Until those questions can be answered, this is nothing but a farce.
- 307
This seems similar to what I'm vaguely aware of other neighborhoods in the city having done in the past (and presumably still are doing) which is supplementing basic security and safety provided by STLPD with a third party security outfit. I know nothing of the history of this - which neighborhoods started doing this, when they started doing it and what complaining to the city for better safety occurred before starting to do it, but I can't imagine it's the first thing to come to mind when residents feel their neighborhood is under policed.
Naturally, I'd think the first reaction to the feeling of under policed lack of security is to discuss w/alderperson and/or STLPD about the issue. Then eventually if you get no where, the mayors office? Then maybe going to the state or even federal level next? I don't know. Maybe all of that has been done in the past before throwing in the towel and paying for it yourself.
But paying for it out of your own pocket seems like a last resort, not to mention it seems like setting a bad precedent for other neighborhoods to do the same and then basically implying by action that you have a lack of faith in your local government to provide the basic safety and security one should expect to be provided.
Naturally, I'd think the first reaction to the feeling of under policed lack of security is to discuss w/alderperson and/or STLPD about the issue. Then eventually if you get no where, the mayors office? Then maybe going to the state or even federal level next? I don't know. Maybe all of that has been done in the past before throwing in the towel and paying for it yourself.
But paying for it out of your own pocket seems like a last resort, not to mention it seems like setting a bad precedent for other neighborhoods to do the same and then basically implying by action that you have a lack of faith in your local government to provide the basic safety and security one should expect to be provided.
I assume it is mostly to force the city's hand in finding and hiring more officers. I'm sure the city sees this as a slap in the face.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Mar 16, 2017This seems similar to what I'm vaguely aware of other neighborhoods in the city having done in the past (and presumably still are doing) which is supplementing basic security and safety provided by STLPD with a third party security outfit. I know nothing of the history of this - which neighborhoods started doing this, when they started doing it and what complaining to the city for better safety occurred before starting to do it, but I can't imagine it's the first thing to come to mind when residents feel their neighborhood is under policed.
Naturally, I'd think the first reaction to the feeling of under policed lack of security is to discuss w/alderperson and/or STLPD about the issue. Then eventually if you get no where, the mayors office? Then maybe going to the state or even federal level next? I don't know. Maybe all of that has been done in the past before throwing in the towel and paying for it yourself.
But paying for it out of your own pocket seems like a last resort, not to mention it seems like setting a bad precedent for other neighborhoods to do the same and then basically implying by action that you have a lack of faith in your local government to provide the basic safety and security one should expect to be provided.
- 170
The CWE has been hiring private security (from TCF, I believe, so off-duty police officers) for years -- probably more than a decade. All the different SBDs in the area coordinate their security through NSI. It doesn't seem to have forced the city's hand regarding anything to do with the police department.
- 403
Please tell me if I'm over exaggerating things here or not? Is it me or is St.Louis the only 2+ million region without a single crane within its city center? When was the last time our city center actually had multiple cranes within the immediate area? I understand the plethora of historic rehabs that remain but our lack of any new construction within our city center is amusingly pathetic!
Now with At&t tower about empty we'll never see any cranes within our city center and its not all about to big cranes even small cranes will make a difference and sadly I'm not even going to waste my time on Ballpark Village anymore cause this entire project could have been done entirely on the Cardinals dime without any taxpayers help.
Whats the real state of our city center and is there any real way of fixing it besides the obvious's?
Our leaders seem to be great at promoting/building parks but really suck at actually promoting and building up city center!
Our skyline has virtually been the same for almost 2 decades with no signs of that changing.
I can name a handle full of cities that are killing it on the development end that are nearly identical in size or smaller than St.Louis however I'm not about bashing St.Louis i want a better understanding what in the heck is going on with our leaders are they sincerely afraid of change or is there just no interest in the city center from any developers?
Right now i feel like city center is the most underserved in the country.
Theres nothing to really get excited about beyond the arch grounds when it comes to new construction.
Sorry if it annoys anyone that I'm using city center!
Now with At&t tower about empty we'll never see any cranes within our city center and its not all about to big cranes even small cranes will make a difference and sadly I'm not even going to waste my time on Ballpark Village anymore cause this entire project could have been done entirely on the Cardinals dime without any taxpayers help.
Whats the real state of our city center and is there any real way of fixing it besides the obvious's?
Our leaders seem to be great at promoting/building parks but really suck at actually promoting and building up city center!
Our skyline has virtually been the same for almost 2 decades with no signs of that changing.
I can name a handle full of cities that are killing it on the development end that are nearly identical in size or smaller than St.Louis however I'm not about bashing St.Louis i want a better understanding what in the heck is going on with our leaders are they sincerely afraid of change or is there just no interest in the city center from any developers?
Right now i feel like city center is the most underserved in the country.
Theres nothing to really get excited about beyond the arch grounds when it comes to new construction.
Sorry if it annoys anyone that I'm using city center!
What are you defining as city center? Just downtown from Tucker to the river? or where exactly? I am assuming you aren't counting midtown.St.Louis1764 wrote: ↑May 31, 2017Please tell me if I'm over exaggerating things here or not? Is it me or is St.Louis the only 2+ million region without a single crane within its city center? When was the last time our city center actually had multiple cranes within the immediate area? I understand the plethora of historic rehabs that remain but our lack of any new construction within our city center is amusingly pathetic!
Now with At&t tower about empty we'll never see any cranes within our city center and its not all about to big cranes even small cranes will make a difference and sadly I'm not even going to waste my time on Ballpark Village anymore cause this entire project could have been done entirely on the Cardinals dime without any taxpayers help.
Whats the real state of our city center and is there any real way of fixing it besides the obvious's?
Our leaders seem to be great at promoting/building parks but really suck at actually promoting and building up city center!
Our skyline has virtually been the same for almost 2 decades with no signs of that changing.
I can name a handle full of cities that are killing it on the development end that are nearly identical in size or smaller than St.Louis however I'm not about bashing St.Louis i want a better understanding what in the heck is going on with our leaders are they sincerely afraid of change or is there just no interest in the city center from any developers?
Right now i feel like city center is the most underserved in the country.
Theres nothing to really get excited about beyond the arch grounds when it comes to new construction.
Sorry if it annoys anyone that I'm using city center!
The rehabs have some to do with it. They don't have cranes so you don't see when there are a half dozen or more going on at a time that would have cranes if they were new builds. In smaller cities they don't have all the buildings downtown already has so they obviously are going to build new. That all said, it is a little disappointing to me that downtown hasn't had a crane in awhile, when you look at other cities with lots of them.
- 2,430
Gills put in a building permit application for the Union Trust so it looks like work on that project should begin soon. And apparently word on the street is that the International Shoe project is slated to begin in September. Good to see some more of these announced projects make progress. I guess a big announcement we hope to hear soon is the Jefferson Arms indeed sells and a project start date is set.
On a bit of a downer, the Butler Bros. Building did not meet the reserve price on the auction so it's still out there with no real plan for bringing that one back.
On a bit of a downer, the Butler Bros. Building did not meet the reserve price on the auction so it's still out there with no real plan for bringing that one back.
^ I think the key at moment for Butler is having Jeff Arms and Railway Exchange underway & eating up the available/vacant space downtown. The reserve price must have some of that value of further demand taken into account as no need to sell it off for too little when you might have two legitimate large projects in the works that will only support and create more demand..
Just hope as you stated that Jeff Arms or at least the Railway Exchange moves forward sooner than later..
Just hope as you stated that Jeff Arms or at least the Railway Exchange moves forward sooner than later..
- 219
Man i hope something gets moving in downtown west. I know alot of us are trying to sell our units and not having any luck. Prices are down alot from what most of us payed. I thought larry being gone would help. And it helped massivly visually on the neighborhood but still not many are looking downtown it seems. The post article about car breakins im sure didnt help much
- 88
Larry Rice definitely helped, but Downtown is majorly lacking. I know I need to wait for some of our big developments; Jeff Arms, all of the hotels, BPV (maybe NGA helps the neighborhoods just North which can help Downtown), but I'm beginning to consider, for the first time, moving to other cities. I'm just not sure when or if we'll ever get over the hump. Crime isn't going down, consolidation seems like a pipe dream even with the recent news, MetroLink expansion is a decade off at best, major companies are being bought left and right. It's just very frustrating. Rant over 
- 1,864
We actually did move to another city (DC back in 2015) but moved back for the cost of living and less stressful environment. While we initially moved back into the city (and currently still reside), we've really started to look outside in the county for a long term home. Even walking through the Loop last night wasn't enjoyable with all of the people hassling for money (very aggressively) and then we witnessed a vehicle with no plates speed through multiple red lights, weaving around traffic, and turn left into oncoming traffic a red light (Delmar & Goodfellow) IN FRONT OF A STL POLICE CAR and nothing happened.STLhistoryBuff wrote: ↑Jun 14, 2017Larry Rice definitely helped, but Downtown is majorly lacking. I know I need to wait for some of our big developments; Jeff Arms, all of the hotels, BPV (maybe NGA helps the neighborhoods just North which can help Downtown), but I'm beginning to consider, for the first time, moving to other cities. I'm just not sure when or if we'll ever get over the hump. Crime isn't going down, consolidation seems like a pipe dream even with the recent news, MetroLink expansion is a decade off at best, major companies are being bought left and right. It's just very frustrating. Rant over
While we've both been major proponents and defenders of downtown STL and the city in general for years, we've finally gotten worn down by the issues and lack of change. There's definitely potential downtown, but I'm slowly becoming more pessimistic.
edit: this may have been better posted in the crime thread, but oh well.
- 219
Same boat here. 10+ year owner downtown. I do feel like i wasted too much time hoping for things to truely get better. Then i realized no one project will make a difference. The slow trickle of project doesnt work or just pulls from some other part of downtown. Downtown needs like 10-15 conccurent projects(Office building, hotels, market rate lofts and condos) to make a difference and they are just not coming. I finally threw in the towel and listed my place since i no longer work downtown anymore.
But this is the same crap we have been saying for years now. Even probably repeated it over and over in this thread
But this is the same crap we have been saying for years now. Even probably repeated it over and over in this thread
- 2,430
right; it's just a matter of time before the remaining vacants w/ no current plan get their day.... just a question of pace and there also are some potential down-sides for conditions to be over-heated. Also comes to mind that smaller multiple-building project on Pine around the corner will also create more interest in Butler Bros. if it gets tackled.dredger wrote: ↑Jun 14, 2017^ I think the key at moment for Butler is having Jeff Arms and Railway Exchange underway & eating up the available/vacant space downtown. The reserve price must have some of that value of further demand taken into account as no need to sell it off for too little when you might have two legitimate large projects in the works that will only support and create more demand..
Just hope as you stated that Jeff Arms or at least the Railway Exchange moves forward sooner than later..
There are several projects that will probably be going concurrently, albeit soon. I think that might inspire some more faith in the market.
Think you all are being very pessimistic. Downtown population growth is the highest percentage in the region and continues to grow. There are projects dotted throughout the neighborhood. We have a new, clean plaza with updated lighting, walkways, accessibility etc. Wash Ave. lighting system looks great. Working permit approved for Union Trust. Ballpark Village second half this year. International Shoe in September. Kaldi's Coffee is raking in the morning crowds which is nice competition for Starbucks. Railway Exchange is a HUGE undergoing. You can't expect a project planned for 600 apartments to just START. Last year it was just a concept ULI. It's amazing that the building gained interest that quickly.
The new YMCA just opened which looks great on the inside. The Improved riverfront is another huge improvement. I was not expecting much from it. But it might just be the best part of CAR renovations. There are some vendors down there on certain days and the whole street has some liveliness to it. For the first time I feel very St. Louis-y when I'm on the riverfront. That bike bath going under the Eads Bridge is really something special.
HA. Also, Laclede's Landing has some apartments planned which is a small win. But still a win.
Finally, my friend at the Arcade says his rents are going up $60 this year!! While last year they only went up $10. Demand is increasing!!
The new YMCA just opened which looks great on the inside. The Improved riverfront is another huge improvement. I was not expecting much from it. But it might just be the best part of CAR renovations. There are some vendors down there on certain days and the whole street has some liveliness to it. For the first time I feel very St. Louis-y when I'm on the riverfront. That bike bath going under the Eads Bridge is really something special.
HA. Also, Laclede's Landing has some apartments planned which is a small win. But still a win.
Finally, my friend at the Arcade says his rents are going up $60 this year!! While last year they only went up $10. Demand is increasing!!
^ Nice post
You have to admit that a few things have hit St. Louis and downtown in particular hard but also a number of other established mid size cities, especially Midwest.
First, corporate consolidation of regional companies into larger US corporations has had a huge impact on commercial space that was predominantly downtown for most cities. Think Missouri Pacific being swallowed up Union Pacific, or Famous Barr being swallowed by Macy's, and so on. Cost savings in consolidation have come from the expense of St. Louis and loss of jobs for downtown cores. That is tough up hill battle as a lot of the many smaller companies are now less bigger companies doing things with less people.
Second, except in a few cases like Salesforces maintaining a decent Indy presence after an acquisition, the job generators of tech and biotech/pharma giants have largely stayed coastal whether it be Silicon Valley, Seattle, NY or Boston. Heck, Google started the process of a huge 8 million square foot/20,000 job transit oriented development in the heart of San Jose. This is on top of its huge Silicon Valley HQ. Google could swoop down and easily fill the ATT One Center with a quarter of those jobs or any other city with those jobs. Instead, Google, Facebook, Apple are all doubling down in same locations.
The other big item in my thoughts, Airline consolidation had its impacts IMO. Atlanta and Dallas are the two big winners as they attracted a fair share of corporate relocations on their hubs alone. St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Memphis, Pittsburgh all took a hit in one way or another with airline consolidation. St. Louis with a bigger metro area has done better in clawing back connectivity but less frequency & still lacks a direct business flight or two to business centers in Europe/South of the Border.
You have to admit that a few things have hit St. Louis and downtown in particular hard but also a number of other established mid size cities, especially Midwest.
First, corporate consolidation of regional companies into larger US corporations has had a huge impact on commercial space that was predominantly downtown for most cities. Think Missouri Pacific being swallowed up Union Pacific, or Famous Barr being swallowed by Macy's, and so on. Cost savings in consolidation have come from the expense of St. Louis and loss of jobs for downtown cores. That is tough up hill battle as a lot of the many smaller companies are now less bigger companies doing things with less people.
Second, except in a few cases like Salesforces maintaining a decent Indy presence after an acquisition, the job generators of tech and biotech/pharma giants have largely stayed coastal whether it be Silicon Valley, Seattle, NY or Boston. Heck, Google started the process of a huge 8 million square foot/20,000 job transit oriented development in the heart of San Jose. This is on top of its huge Silicon Valley HQ. Google could swoop down and easily fill the ATT One Center with a quarter of those jobs or any other city with those jobs. Instead, Google, Facebook, Apple are all doubling down in same locations.
The other big item in my thoughts, Airline consolidation had its impacts IMO. Atlanta and Dallas are the two big winners as they attracted a fair share of corporate relocations on their hubs alone. St. Louis, Cincy, Cleveland, Memphis, Pittsburgh all took a hit in one way or another with airline consolidation. St. Louis with a bigger metro area has done better in clawing back connectivity but less frequency & still lacks a direct business flight or two to business centers in Europe/South of the Border.
- 403
Is there any real master plan for downtown? What would they like to have accomplish, how do they vision downtown being in 20 + years
I feel the beholder of the key in the entire region isn't Clayton it's Downtown St.Louis!
A strong vibrant yet progressive energetic downtown leads to a lot of civic pride and a healthy outlook for all of St.Louis.
I will say this for all the downing about the riverfront i have to say its one of the now better river fronts in the country. Could they have done more yes but what we have now is a trillion times better than what we had in the past and i hope things will only get better for our front door.
I feel the beholder of the key in the entire region isn't Clayton it's Downtown St.Louis!
A strong vibrant yet progressive energetic downtown leads to a lot of civic pride and a healthy outlook for all of St.Louis.
I will say this for all the downing about the riverfront i have to say its one of the now better river fronts in the country. Could they have done more yes but what we have now is a trillion times better than what we had in the past and i hope things will only get better for our front door.
I don't think there is a plan.
St. Louis is the only downtown I've been in that:
1) Has not one major headquarters. Purina, AB, Caleres, Monsanto, Centene, Emerson, EdJones, Enterprise, RGA, Boeing are all out, many with their own campuses. The lack of corporate belief in downtown (save NestléPurina's IT movement) is disheartening.
2) Has not updated its traffic lights, rusty cobra heads, broken sidewalks, urban-furniture, trees (DT could increase its tree count by 500% and still feel treeless.) It's infuriating to go to other downtowns and see the infrastructure cared for. I think this contributes heavily to the current state. There's no pride and it feels depressing and sad. It takes money but I guess the City doesn't have the will to fight the inevitable "that money should be spent on schools/homeless" crowd.
St. Louis is the only downtown I've been in that:
1) Has not one major headquarters. Purina, AB, Caleres, Monsanto, Centene, Emerson, EdJones, Enterprise, RGA, Boeing are all out, many with their own campuses. The lack of corporate belief in downtown (save NestléPurina's IT movement) is disheartening.
2) Has not updated its traffic lights, rusty cobra heads, broken sidewalks, urban-furniture, trees (DT could increase its tree count by 500% and still feel treeless.) It's infuriating to go to other downtowns and see the infrastructure cared for. I think this contributes heavily to the current state. There's no pride and it feels depressing and sad. It takes money but I guess the City doesn't have the will to fight the inevitable "that money should be spent on schools/homeless" crowd.
Think Lyda will continue the excellent progress Slay made in synchronizing the traffic lights since 2005?
https://archive.mayorslay.com/article/d ... cess-study
Posted on 07.05.05
The traffic study will culminate in a plan for improvements to downtown’s pedestrian and vehicular movement systems. The consultants performing the study, Crawford, Bunte, & Brammeier, are also designing the new traffic signal controller system for the downtown core.
New controllers that will improve the synchronization of downtown’s traffic signals are expected to be installed later this year.
I live tweeted the whole Downtown event today on my Twitter. Interesting information today
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Downtown Now! plan was developed over several years in the late 90's adopted in 2000 - Parts of it have been implemented
I attended some of the open meetings in 98 and 99 - Its a good general plan IMO and the development of Wash Ave, OPO Square and the Gateway Mall were all direct results of the plan
Many of the targets have not been achieved, not necessarily one individual entities fault but the notion that a metro that grows 2% a decade was going to add 1,000 residential units on Laclede's Landing alone in 20 years was a bit optimistic
Friends we have a slow growth metro problem - Slow growth downtown is just a symptom
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/archive/down ... /home.html
I attended some of the open meetings in 98 and 99 - Its a good general plan IMO and the development of Wash Ave, OPO Square and the Gateway Mall were all direct results of the plan
Many of the targets have not been achieved, not necessarily one individual entities fault but the notion that a metro that grows 2% a decade was going to add 1,000 residential units on Laclede's Landing alone in 20 years was a bit optimistic
Friends we have a slow growth metro problem - Slow growth downtown is just a symptom
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/archive/down ... /home.html
Well, there's Peabody, Stifle, HOK...shadrach wrote: ↑Jun 15, 2017I don't think there is a plan.
St. Louis is the only downtown I've been in that:
1) Has not one major headquarters. Purina, AB, Caleres, Monsanto, Centene, Emerson, EdJones, Enterprise, RGA, Boeing are all out, many with their own campuses. The lack of corporate belief in downtown (save NestléPurina's IT movement) is disheartening.
.
- 307
A giant sinkhole swallowed a car this morning right outside the Railway Exchange. Impressive pics and semi-interesting discussion of relation to the water main break last November that flooded the basement of the Railway Exchange: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ce2b.html
Also, I saw this the other day. I can't help but wonder if this gentlemen is aware of concepts such as gravity and terminal velocity: http://www.kmov.com/story/35762573/cell ... n-st-louis
Also, I saw this the other day. I can't help but wonder if this gentlemen is aware of concepts such as gravity and terminal velocity: http://www.kmov.com/story/35762573/cell ... n-st-louis
FWIW the gas station is actually in Lasalle Park, not Downtown. I know, arbitrary lines along Chouteau be damned, but just chiming in.San Luis Native wrote: ↑Jun 29, 2017A giant sinkhole swallowed a car this morning right outside the Railway Exchange. Impressive pics and semi-interesting discussion of relation to the water main break last November that flooded the basement of the Railway Exchange: http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 4ce2b.html
Also, I saw this the other day. I can't help but wonder if this gentlemen is aware of concepts such as gravity and terminal velocity: http://www.kmov.com/story/35762573/cell ... n-st-louis