urbanSTL

hebeters2 wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2017

Again I challenge the public to predict when this trolley folly will be abandoned and the streets returned to there original use.

Move over to the Urban Theory thread if we're going to talk about streets being returned to their original use.

But yes, I agree that the biggest hurdle is ahead of us: ridership.

For one i don't see how 1 person who has single handedly made the Delmar Loop what is today allow his very own Trolley become a utter disaster this person knows what he's doing and he's not going to be spot on 100% of the time however i believe this Trolley is going to be a complete success will help continue to spur development along Delmar specifically in the City..
Now only if this was on Washington Ave in the Loft district..

Is the Trolley doing itself any favors in public perception by being parked full of graffiti in front of the Metro train garage?

bprop wrote: ↑

Feb 16, 2017

Is the Trolley doing itself any favors in public perception by being parked full of graffiti in front of the Metro train garage?

What graffiti? Blame the photographer? As can be seen in the photos linked to by imran, they were unloading the trolley vehicle almost directly in front of their own building (the Loop Trolley storage and maintenance building) which happens to be located very near the large blank wall that is the Metro bus garage.

Blueberry Hill ‏@BlueberryHillMO
The 1st @TheDelmarLoop Trolley Car has arrived!

^What an f'in force of nature. How many of us have thought, "Wouldn't it be cool to have a trolley running through [fill in preferred neighborhood/business district]." Incredible that he's actually seen it through and made it happen. I'm sure not everyone shares his exact vision, and the project has certainly had it's share of setbacks and hiccups, but nonetheless, what an incredible accomplishment.

Here are a of the highlights from the F'book post:





This one is from a prior post. It's of the Delmar & DeBaliviere station, which in my opinion looks GOOD:

Bravo!

I saw the green one on the highway today - pretty sad tag on it...

I think bprop is talking about one of the green Seattle cars; the genuinely historic (if Australian) ones. The car unloaded today appears to have been one of the red Portland cars, which are replica Brills. One of the green Seattle cars had been in front of Metrolink's shops by Union Station for a while. Which makes sense, as it was apparently St. Louis that bought the things, not Loop Trolley. Edwards is probably leasing the one that's been restored and is scheduled for service. The one/s that are/were downtown were doubtless of the other two. Shame the Peter Witts didn't work out financially.

As a skeptic of this project, it's probably worth me saying that seeing the car on the tracks yesterday was pretty thrilling. Fingers crossed that all goes according to plan and that riders show up. On that last point, my dad, who grew up riding street cars to school in St. Louis but now lives out of town, is very eager to ride the Loop Trolley.

You may love the project, hate the project, whatever... those cars are awesome. Kudos to Joe.

Now we need to a City street car to connect to this one and make a loop around downtown.


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The cars are very cool for what they are, but I personally would have preferred a modern style, like those in Kansas City.

the historic streetcar look is great for the loop imo, since there is not a planned network for streetcars to build off this. Hopefully, though, this will gain traction and influence the development of a small network (built in phases maybe) that connect it and metrolink to downtown, grand center, the hill, tower grove, and soulard (historic and tourist friendly neighborhoods). That would really be something special.

framer wrote: ↑

Feb 17, 2017

The cars are very cool for what they are, but I personally would have preferred a modern style, like those in Kansas City.

I think user28 has good point as what the loop trolley is going after and why it makes sense that cars that have pursued.

However, outside of extending the loop trolley Delmar east into the city further/CWE I don't see the loop trolley as the basis for a broader streetcar network or to me even a worse idea. Instead, the April ballot could put the Metro/city in the position to start on N-S or at least the city street running version that would connect south city with downtown to at least new NGIA. That to me should be the basis for a modern street network and without a doubt be along the lines of KC modern streetcars.

In the meantime, really hope the Loop trolley is a success and more importantly encourage more development sooner than later. Rightly or wrongly, think perception of loop trolley as a success or not will make a big difference in how fixed transit within the city going forward. Related to the April ballot, it might be better that the trolleys weren't running last year as its success or not would the basis for most voting yes or no in April IMO. I really think north to south running street cars in the city is best fixed transit plan for the region going forward. The shortened N-S street running portion within the city might be how it happens

user28 wrote: ↑

Feb 17, 2017

the historic streetcar look is great for the loop imo, since there is not a planned network for streetcars to build off this. Hopefully, though, this will gain traction and influence the development of a small network (built in phases maybe) that connect it and metrolink to downtown, grand center, the hill, tower grove, and soulard (historic and tourist friendly neighborhoods). That would really be something special.

I would really love to see a future expansion head south through Dogtown to the Hill.

Joe Edwards was at the 28th ward meeting last Thursday. When asked about future expansion, he said the logical extension was a loop in Forest Park.

^ This kind of nonsense shows why St. Louis will never have a coherent, useful transit system and will continue to lag behind competing cities that are actually growing transit ridership.

"Oh look, a loop through a park"
"Come on guys, let's connect two cool streets"

Both ideas sound awesome to me for a vintage trolley. Clayton out of the park to Taylor to Man , turnaround at Rehab?

Randy wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2017

^ This kind of nonsense shows why St. Louis will never have a coherent, useful transit system and will continue to lag behind competing cities that are actually growing transit ridership.

"Oh look, a loop through a park"
"Come on guys, let's connect two cool streets"

I would say loop historic trolley is very much a different beast and for the most part was never intended to be part of a bigger/network system. To me it makes absolutely prefect sense to extend it further into the park as long as gives a convenient stop next to the zoo which is by far one of the bigger draws in the region or maybe cross Hwy 40 to Forest Park community college/Highland development. The other avenue is extend east to tie into CWE/Barnes Jewish jobs center. But that should be the extent

City residents will have a chance to move N-S forward on April ballot which would absolutely be a useful transit system that will compliment existing transit and increase ridership. At the moment, I just don't know if adding fixed transit beyond the city is a plus considering their is not a strong regional partnership as other metro areas nor has county muni's outside of Clayton have anything to show for fixed transit investment. My two cents for city & county is N-S modern streetcar, extend half built cross county/shrewsbury line along River Des Peres to I55, cut back some bus routes and increase bus frequency significantly on the others or select some BRT corridors.

I think this has been debated ad nauseum, but the Loop Trolley is a diversion, a tourist attraction, a place-making feature, a single man's whimsical folly, and an homage to an important piece of St. Louis history. Genetically it's more closely related to the zoo train than Metrolink.

It's not a transit solution and has nothing to do with St. Louis having "a coherent, useful transit system." The fact that it exists should not meaningfully contribute to, or take away from, St. Louis's accomplishments and shortcomings in providing mass transit solutions.