^ Big fan of 720 Olive, etc. and I think that is more or less what's contemplated with the bigger things like the Jefferson Arms and Railway Exchange, and even BPV to a degree with office and residential on a tight site.
And just to clarify, I think we need more of everything downtown -- residents, workers, visitors, students -- but it is office specifically that can drive and sustain quicker, more robust overall growth
user28 wrote:I think a great solution is creating more buildings like 720 olive - office space and residential. why settle for single use buildings with a ground floor of retail. thats how downtowns become dead after 5pm. AT&T buildings, for example, should be retofitted as mostly office space, with hotels marketed as "along the gateway mall steps from the blues, the cardinals, the arch, and the convention center", residences (condos and apartments) with the best views of the city, and they can keep the lame mall on the bottom floor lobby area and it would be the most active building in the city next to the chase.
look, im sure someone has said that before, but my point is there is no reason to have a one track mind for downtown development. All of these buildings should have several uses. That is how we get an active downtown. Use any city you want as a comparison, their best blocks look like that.
downtown2007 wrote:. And yeah, more residents will result in more jobs.
Then why has downtown continued to lose jobs the last 10 years while every year we have gained residents. I finally threw in the towel and am listing my place for sale because i could not find a job downtown and honeslty if you dont work down there i see no benefit to living there.
sorry to hear that you're moving out.... looking back it's been almost three years for this thread and I'd say little has changed in the overall vitality of DT despite the increase in residential. Frustrating. I think a lot hangs on the next 6-12 months and whether a number of these proposals actually move forward.
The trend nationally is more towards population downtown, but a employment is still an important part of a healthy core. More jobs downtown enhances the living environment. Why does downtown not have the retail to support all these new residents? Because they alone don't bring enough traffic to support either large stores or a variety of small ones. But as was mentioned upthread job centers are dense cores of people. Add (or more accurately reintroduce) several high-density job centers and all the sudden you have the daytime population density to support more retail. And the retail that opens to take advantage of all the people working downtown makes living downtown even more appealing; you really could walk or bike to get anything you'd need.
Residential is doing quite well downtown of late, but there's still a deficit in jobs relative to what could be. Both are important and necessary parts of a modern vibrant downtown. It's possible - and I'd suggest necessary - to maintain the residential momentum while also reclaiming as much of the lost employment base as possible.
Speaking of, there's been some anecdotal evidence that some companies are choosing to locate downtown, including actual new office construction proposals for the first time in decades. But I'm having trouble finding current downtown-specific job numbers or employment trends. Downtown STL reports "over 1,600 businesses and nearly 90,000 jobs" in 'greater downtown', but that's from a 2014 State of Downtown report showing statistics from the 2013 year.
^ There's been some jobs movement to downtown in the past couple years but it has been very uneven... in addition to organic growth and start-ups, there have been some relocations like the Momentum move to Downtown West. But there also have been some losses like Northwest Mutual (relocating to County) and Hudson's Bay/Lord & Taylor IT jobs (eliminated); not really sure how it all adds up in the end with net numbers the past few years. And with the 800 VA jobs moving out in March, we certainly could use a big win to compensate for that upcoming blow.
And while precise numbers seem difficult to come by for "downtown" (however you define it) I think it's pretty clear that jobs are a weak spot when compared to our peers where there is a more solid jobs rebound... not to say that everyone is moving back to the CBD in other rustbelt cities and that some aren't moving out, but I believe we have fewer solid, impressive wins than elsewhere.
In my mind, having these wins of big downtown office plays with new jobs are very important... beyond the impact of the new workers they demonstrate a commitment to downtown by the corporate community and signal that it is on the right track. I may be wrong, but I really feel that we're just a clear and convincing win or two for downtown to change the trajectory... if WWT decides to fill up Cupples X with Asynchrony workers relocated from Cupples 9, eh, no big deal and wake me later, but if they decide to plop down 300-500 new workers and bring some WWT folks along then that's entirely a different matter. Same with BPV, new office that actually attracts new jobs with marquee companies can really make a difference and lead to a virtuous cycle of even more jobs attracting more residents that attract even more companies. Positive change, once it begins, can happen pretty quick if things break the right way.
Nice to hear that Mercantile Library block is making progress but news by the end of the year on a closing for Jefferson Arms and/or Railway Exchange would be wonderful. Also not sure what the heck is going on with the Monogram.
Was downtown for the Bragging Rights game last night and stumbled over to Start Bar and Wheellhouse after the game. Those place are killing it. Great additions for the Southern end of DT. Just shows that people will come if you have a great space, great concept, and great service. I think the places on Wash Ave lost their way in this aspect and it led to the demise of several once popular spots.
robertn42 wrote:Was downtown for the Bragging Rights game last night and stumbled over to Start Bar and Wheellhouse after the game. Those place are killing it. Great additions for the Southern end of DT. Just shows that people will come if you have a great space, great concept, and great service. I think the places on Wash Ave lost their way in this aspect and it led to the demise of several once popular spots.
And the loft district also took a blow from the M/X concentration.... I think further west is going to have to continue to re-invent itself -- there have been a couple nice bar/restaurant additions -- but also will need more neighborhood projects coming online before it finds a more stable footing that is less reliant on being a regional "hot spot" in a more competitive environment. Hopefully the Fashion Incubator, which opens next month, provides a bit of energy.
STLrainbow wrote:Nice to hear that Mercantile Library block is making progress but news by the end of the year on a closing for Jefferson Arms and/or Railway Exchange would be wonderful. Also not sure what the heck is going on with the Monogram.
For all the promise of 2016, I think it was kind of a tease. Hopefully most of the projects announced last year actually get started but I fear some may be dead and others are taking longer to get going. I believe Hotel Saint Louis should start construction before too long and work is getting underway on the new YMCA, but I'm really eager to hear about progress on others. I guess in the end if BPV and Jefferson Arms get going it will be a solid year but it has the potential to be a great one if things fall into place.
^ I think your right on about a solid year for downtorwn if Jeff Arms and BPV phase II break ground. For one, Jeff Arms is a huge chunk of square footage and might help convince smaller projects go forward on the rehab front or even kickstart Chemical or even Railway Exchange. Second, BPV represents new construction from Office/new Class A to maybe hotel rooms to a high rise residential.
Not much new news but confirmation that Hotel St. Louis, Hotel Indigo, Union Station and Mercantile Library are all making progress... also moving forward but not listed are the downtown YMCA relocation to the CBD, which had its building permit recently issued, and the Monogram Building, which had a building permit recently applied for.
does anyboody know if there is still a chance that monogram could ever build that 20 story building they initially mentioned they would? is that more of a dream or could it ever truly come to fruition?
user28 wrote:does anyboody know if there is still a chance that monogram could ever build that 20 story building they initially mentioned they would? is that more of a dream or could it ever truly come to fruition?
I never and even heard of that project. Has there any been any renderings or news articles regarding it over the past 10 years or so? Where was it supposed to go? Would be cool. But I don't know. Depends on the location of it
user28 wrote:does anyboody know if there is still a chance that monogram could ever build that 20 story building they initially mentioned they would? is that more of a dream or could it ever truly come to fruition?
I never and even heard of that project. Has there any been any renderings or news articles regarding it over the past 10 years or so? Where was it supposed to go? Would be cool. But I don't know. Depends on the location of it
when they announced the project they asked for subsidies and the permission to close 17th street. one of the things they promised, or more suggested, is that they would have a dog park and parking in 17th streets place and that the surface lot (surrounded by st charles, 17th, wash ave, and 16th) might become a 20 story building.
now last i heard the tower was no longer in the picture, but i was hoping someone may have heard something. in the least i was hoping for speculation
user28 wrote:does anyboody know if there is still a chance that monogram could ever build that 20 story building they initially mentioned they would? is that more of a dream or could it ever truly come to fruition?
I never and even heard of that project. Has there any been any renderings or news articles regarding it over the past 10 years or so? Where was it supposed to go? Would be cool. But I don't know. Depends on the location of it
when they announced the project they asked for subsidies and the permission to close 17th street. one of the things they promised, or more suggested, is that they would have a dog park and parking in 17th streets place and that the surface lot (surrounded by st charles, 17th, wash ave, and 16th) might become a 20 story building.
now last i heard the tower was no longer in the picture, but i was hoping someone may have heard something. in the least i was hoping for speculation
Then I am sure It is dead which is a shame. Washington Avenue needs some new Construction especially West of Tucker.
Fence is up around Hotel Indigo Project (Brick building across Met Square). Seems to be going full speed ahead. Also, its two smaller counterparts are included in development zone. Didn't know those buildings were part of the plan.
Went on a run last weekend down Washington. Think someone has mentioned this, but I think the lofts on Wash Ave. are getting tired. Especially west of Tucker, the conversion momentum has shrunk. Running toward Broadway, the area around M/X is thriving. More so with new YMCA coming (even though I think space would be perfect for a retailer).
I think some high rise construction west of Tucker would interest potential residents. Development is dilute past 20th street.
I think Ballpark Village high-rise is the real home run (Ha pun). I think it caters to people who wouldn't normally live downtown because:
-----A. It's shiny, new construction next to shiny facilities and restaurants (with more planned).
-----B. It has everything every suburban St. Louisan wants: a perfect view of the Arch and a front seat to watch the Cardinals.
This development has the potential to win those who aren't necessarily attracted to living in an older building and want to be part of an all-inclusive "district." Ballpark Village gets good reviews; it's what outsiders seem to be very interested in (no matter how dull it looks right now). Suburbanites and many others seem to think the ballpark and surrounding tracts are a different element of downtown that is "safe/ untouchable."
Downtown needs some new life breathed into it. It's a good start with all the rehabs and everything but a new life revolves around having a successful business and tourism (shops and Restaurants) list. Ballpark Village proves what Downtown can be and should be. Downtown just needs to be given some love.
Fence is up around Hotel Indigo Project (Brick building across Met Square). Seems to be going full speed ahead. Also, its two smaller counterparts are included in development zone. Didn't know those buildings were part of the plan.
Went on a run last weekend down Washington. Think someone has mentioned this, but I think the lofts on Wash Ave. are getting tired. Especially west of Tucker, the conversion momentum has shrunk. Running toward Broadway, the area around M/X is thriving. More so with new YMCA coming (even though I think space would be perfect for a retailer).
I think some high rise construction west of Tucker would interest potential residents. Development is dilute past 20th street.
I think Ballpark Village high-rise is the real home run (Ha pun). I think it caters to people who wouldn't normally live downtown because:
-----A. It's shiny, new construction next to shiny facilities and restaurants (with more planned).
-----B. It has everything every suburban St. Louisan wants: a perfect view of the Arch and a front seat to watch the Cardinals.
This development has the potential to win those who aren't necessarily attracted to living in an older building and want to be part of an all-inclusive "district." Ballpark Village gets good reviews; it's what outsiders seem to be very interested in (no matter how dull it looks right now). Suburbanites and many others seem to think the ballpark and surrounding tracts are a different element of downtown that is "safe/ untouchable."
Getting the LaSalle Building reactivated will be tremendous... not sure how many "boots on the ground" the Hotel Indigo itself will put on the street but just having new life and the lights on at that key corner will be nice. Also agree on the BPV new construction... I fancy "old downtown" more but the more-o- less self-contained BPV area will have greater appeal to a decent segment of the region's population. If we can get that and say Jefferson Arms renovation underway this year, it would be a good year for downtown. (Hotel St. Louis also should begin anytime now, at least according to the Gill's last update.)
