The Moxy St. Louis - 11th & Olive

chriss752 · PostApr 26, 2019#12019-04-26T16:33+00:00

Iowa based Hawkeye Hotels is planning a brand new, 12-story Moxy by Marriott Hotel on the parking lot that is supposed to serve the Majestic (Le Meridien) hotel. The plans will include...

154 Hotel Rooms.
5800SF bar/lounge.
NO Parking garage.

The developer is still working with Atlanta based Dynamik Design on the architectural elements of the project so no defined cost or timeline was publicly given at this time. Hawkeye didn't specify if they want incentives. They say that the hotel will be built for business travelers and to serve the future Convention Center expansion.

CURRENT SITE...

RENDERINGS

sc4mayor · PostApr 26, 2019#22019-04-26T16:40+00:00

^ I think that looks fantastic. I'm still skeptical of all these hotels, but anything to fill in a surface lot downtown!

RockChalkSTL · PostApr 26, 2019#32019-04-26T16:45+00:00

I like it.

Looks like there is still some parking on the backside of the building, but I'm not upset about that.

Come 2021 or so, St. Louis is going to have an incredible package to offer potential conventions.

Now, please, some residential. Also, please, some people willing to move downtown.

PostApr 26, 2019#42019-04-26T16:47+00:00

^ Mayor, Kansas City is starting to ask the same questions.

I tend to think that you're not going to get huge conventions unless you make some of these investments, though.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/ka ... otel-rooms

framer · PostApr 26, 2019#52019-04-26T16:48+00:00

Sweet!

chriss752 · PostApr 26, 2019#62019-04-26T16:55+00:00

The major deciding factor here is if the SLDC issues a Moratorium on hotels in Downtown West and Downtown. If that happens before this project is formally proposed, this will most likely be canned.

goat314 · PostApr 26, 2019#72019-04-26T17:10+00:00

^ Since Downtown seems to be positioning itself as more of a touristy/convention centered area. I think it would be misguided to put a moratorium on hotels if developers are willing to make the investment. Obviously you don't want a glut of hotels that are not needed, but hotels will certainly drive retail development and it's better than having empty buildings rehabbed than being left to rot or underutilized. At this rate, I really believe that downtown is only 5 or so years away from a point where new construction will be the norm rather than rehab. That is when things will get really exciting and casual observers will begin to visually see the progress downtown has made. Rehabs are wonderful, but nothing says progress like to the average person like cranes and shiny glass.

Tim · PostApr 26, 2019#82019-04-26T17:29+00:00

chriss752 wrote: The major deciding factor here is if the SLDC issues a Moratorium on hotels in Downtown West and Downtown. If that happens before this project is formally proposed, this will most likely be canned.

Is a moratorium something that is being seriously discussed?

jbacott · PostApr 26, 2019#92019-04-26T17:47+00:00

If it happens, it will be an interesting addition to the hotel circuit. I stayed at a Moxy in Denver and it was a very urban-oriented, modern hotel. Would seem to offer a different vibe than some of the other more traditional or ornate hotel projects. Still wouldn't at all be shocked to see it deposited into the renderings graveyard.

PlatinumBlues · PostApr 26, 2019#102019-04-26T17:55+00:00

Downtown civic leaders would be foolish to put a moratorium on hotels specially on potential brand new construction. I agree with goat St Louis is definitely on the verge of new constructional growth even possibly population growth in the future. There’s definitely demand for The St Louis Brand so let’s not kill it.

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PostApr 26, 2019#112019-04-26T17:55+00:00

I also give it a thumbs up

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TCB · PostApr 26, 2019#122019-04-26T18:41+00:00

Love this. That corner could use this pop of color. Hope it happens.

dredger · PostApr 26, 2019#132019-04-26T18:45+00:00

Wolfpaw wrote: Downtown civic leaders would be foolish to put a moratorium on hotels specially on potential brand new construction. I agree with goat St Louis is definitely on the verge of new constructional growth even possibly population growth in the future. There’s definitely demand for The St Louis Brand so let’s not kill it.

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Agree, even more foolish when you consider all the tax abatements and redirection of tax revenue involving new properties within the city. Leaves pretty much the sales tax as one of the few gainers for the city and convention district when all said and done.

chriss752 · PostApr 26, 2019#142019-04-26T18:58+00:00

Tim wrote:
chriss752 wrote: The major deciding factor here is if the SLDC issues a Moratorium on hotels in Downtown West and Downtown. If that happens before this project is formally proposed, this will most likely be canned.
Is a moratorium something that is being seriously discussed?

Yes. My source within the SLDC has stated that they have thrown it around.

addxb2 · PostApr 26, 2019#152019-04-26T19:09+00:00

I think if anything a moratorium could be considered for rehabs into hotel. I don't think we're at a point to turn down new construction, no matter the use.

soulardx · PostApr 26, 2019#162019-04-26T19:46+00:00

How about a moratorium on tax subsidies for hotels in downtown STL?

Remove those and private investors can do all the hotels they want.

bprop · PostApr 26, 2019#172019-04-26T21:20+00:00

I thought the Omni was going to be rebranded as a Marriott. They're been a ton of work trucks and, it appears, no guests in the hotel for quite some time.

Way, way too many hotels downtown. It's unsustainable - once the tax breaks run out, many will close or come back with hat in hand.

walker · PostApr 26, 2019#182019-04-26T21:25+00:00

@bprop It is. https://www.poettkerconstruction.com/po ... _marriott/

chriss752 · PostApr 26, 2019#192019-04-26T21:28+00:00

bprop wrote: I thought the Omni was going to be rebranded as a Marriott. They're been a ton of work trucks and, it appears, no guests in the hotel for quite some time.

Way, way too many hotels downtown. It's unsustainable - once the tax breaks run out, many will close or come back with hat in hand.

The Omni is being renovated to become a Le Meridien. That's ongoing.

I think the next hotels to close are the City Place and Red Lion. Both are not in the best shape. But I guess developers have access to data that we don't. The fact that all the hotels proposed, under construction or were recently completed Downtown gives us a net gain of around 900 rooms is interesting and it appears a majority of those rooms will be built. As far as tax breaks go, the moratorium would be put in place to bar incentives being given to newly proposed hotels after the moratorium is implemented. There could also be a second moratorium that bans new hotel developments all together but that seems like a stretch at this point.

dredger · PostApr 26, 2019#202019-04-26T22:22+00:00

^ So essentially at the break even point after Millennium Shuttered if not mistaken on hotel room count?

The question I have on rehabs into hotel rooms. Will it be easier to convert or more cost effective to convert apartments if the property is already a hotel? or another way to put it. Would it be cheaper to convert a boutique hotel into residential or the cost differential no different than taking a Shell building as is scratch to residential? Have no clue

What I'm getting at is the boom in hotel construction might add too many rooms but put downtown in a better position for future residential with all its pent up building stock. In that case, build away on hotel rooms would be my motto.. Let the strong hotels stand and maybe the failures will be converted to residential quicker

urbanitas · PostApr 27, 2019#212019-04-27T00:09+00:00

dredger wrote: Would it be cheaper to convert a boutique hotel into residential or the cost differential no different than taking a Shell building as is scratch to residential?

Since all of the environmental remediation, tuckpointing / facade restoration, repairs, windows, elevators, and some of the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical work would be done already, it would be much cheaper to convert from hotel to residential, than gut and renovate an older building from scratch.

Much of the HVAC, plumbing and electrical would need to be redone obviously, since most of the partitions would have to be removed and rebuilt. And, of course, historic and brownfield tax credits aren't going to be available the second time around, but it would still be cheaper.

newstl2020 · PostApr 27, 2019#222019-04-27T03:44+00:00

Everyone needs to seriously pump the breaks on the hotel saturation theme. And a moratorium on new hotel construction in downtown? I'm sorry, that's literally never going to happen and an asinine thought altogether. A source from SLDC saying this is even a modicum of an idea needs to be fired on the spot and then launched into the sun. If someone wants to come and invest the money to build a hotel in St. Louis and the city tells them to GTFO? Goodbye to investment attempts in the city, completely. Someone is proposing a new hotel. Awesome! We are a very large city and a very large region with many companies/events/family members/convention visitors/tourists etc. needing accommodations.

Enough with the consternation. I've spent 15 years on this board with many others yearning for the day we get new construction in the city and it finally begins to materialize and you all can't help but scream the sky is falling. If the city didn't have a need for hotel rooms, trust me, money would not be considering it. Will this 100% happen? Certainly not. Is it viable if the time has been spent by developers and Marriot to get to this point? Absolutely.

End of rant.

chriss752 · PostApr 27, 2019#232019-04-27T04:07+00:00

newstl2020 wrote: Everyone needs to seriously pump the breaks on the hotel saturation theme. And a moratorium on new hotel construction in downtown? I'm sorry, that's literally never going to happen and an asinine thought altogether. A source from SLDC saying this is even a modicum of an idea needs to be fired on the spot and then launched into the sun. If someone wants to come and invest the money to build a hotel in St. Louis and the city tells them to GTFO? Goodbye to investment attempts in the city, completely. Someone is proposing a new hotel. Awesome! We are a very large city and a very large region with many companies/events/family members/convention visitors/tourists etc. needing accommodations.

Enough with the consternation. I've spent 15 years on this board with many others yearning for the day we get new construction in the city and it finally begins to materialize and you all can't help but scream the sky is falling. If the city didn't have a need for hotel rooms, trust me, money would not be considering it. Will this 100% happen? Certainly not. Is it viable if the time has been spent by developers and Marriot to get to this point? Absolutely.

End of rant.

Just in the last few hours, the source got back to me and said that new construction of hotels would be welcome but historic conversions would be included in the Moratorium. I pressed him further on the issue of why they would bar incentives and he said that the SLDC has many incentive requests for yet to be announced projects in existing buildings that include hotel rooms or are AirBnB related. He stressed that the Moratorium is an idea right now to pump the breaks and get more residential Downtown but he ended with saying, "All new construction projects are welcome, no matter their caliber". So that's good news.

I'm not worried about the market becoming saturated either. It will light a fire under the asses of owners of more rundown hotels in the Downtown area to do something about their accommodations. This is a turning point for Downtown and I have no doubt that the hotels will lead to more restaurants and retail opening in Downtown, especially on Washington where the Moxy, Hotel Saint Louis, 21C, The Last, Shell and Jefferson Arms will mostly serve.

PostApr 27, 2019#242019-04-27T04:08+00:00

dredger wrote: ^ So essentially at the break even point after Millennium Shuttered if not mistaken on hotel room count?

Actually way above the break-even point, by about 900 rooms at this point.

kipfilet · PostApr 27, 2019#252019-04-27T18:43+00:00

My employer is not allowed to book guests/visitors at either City Place or Red Lion as they do not meet a series of basic standards. So they "do not exist" for our purposes.