The Moxy St. Louis - 11th & Olive

sc4mayor · PostMay 17, 2019#512019-05-17T13:03+00:00

^ I was told by someone else here that the Red Lion is already partially condos...so a conversion probably wouldn't be that hard.

Also there is no such thing as too transit oriented...at least in St. Louis. How would additional N/S connections make this an unattractive place to be? A N/S LRT would only make me want to potentially live in this building even more, talk about accessibility.

SeattleNative · PostMay 17, 2019#522019-05-17T13:15+00:00

The Mayor wrote:^ I was told by someone else here that the Red Lion is already partially condos...so a conversion probably wouldn't be that hard.

Also there is no such thing as too transit oriented...at least in St. Louis. How would additional N/S connections make this an unattractive place to be? A N/S LRT would only make me want to potentially live in this building even more, talk about accessibility.

Yeah, the Red Lion already has condos (most around 300k) with some incredible views of the city.

And I agree with the mayor, living at the confluence of the region’s two major rapid transit lines would be a huge plus!

That area does need to figure out how to deal with dead space, but it could certainly make a transition.

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bwcrow1s · PostMay 17, 2019#532019-05-17T14:30+00:00

^ Perhaps the Blues could dump some of that free money the city gave them for renovations and build on the Municipal Courts parking lot.

That is some of the deadest real estate, but best spots for construction.

dredger · PostMay 17, 2019#542019-05-17T14:51+00:00

bwcrow1s wrote: ^ Perhaps the Blues could dump some of that free money the city gave them for renovations and build on the Municipal Courts parking lot.

That is some of the deadest real estate, but best spots for construction.

Getting off topic, Old muni courts hotel/residential type development with residential infill on the parking lot even if the infill is a mid rise/stick on platform would be great IMO. It would be next to transit and compliment the area that is seeing BPV phase II rising and probably a phase III in the not to distant future, Cupples X that could probably break ground the moment Koman secures some tenants and a new MLS stadium in the other direction. Not everything needs to be a high rise and rather see ATT filled, BPV built out and Cupples X before any new office is proposed elsewhere downtown. At the same time, residential gives it a hedge in the hotel room build out

RockChalkSTL · PostMay 17, 2019#552019-05-17T15:45+00:00

Cupples X would be such a huge win for downtown. I hope that proposal comes back.

chriss752 · PostMay 20, 2019#562019-05-20T17:50+00:00

The LCRA will review this tomorrow (May 21st) at their meeting. Some specifics have gotten out...
- Will cost $16,450,000
- Tax abatement requested to be 90% for 10 years.
- 40 permanent and 10 part-time jobs.

No construction timeline was given but it’s making it’s way through the proper development boards at this point.

RockChalkSTL · PostMay 20, 2019#572019-05-20T18:15+00:00

I would be shocked if this isn't approved.

urban_dilettante · PostMay 20, 2019#582019-05-20T18:42+00:00

I'm sorry but 90%, 10-year tax abatement for another ***** hotel is absolute nonsense.

chriss752 · PostMay 20, 2019#592019-05-20T22:39+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote:I'm sorry but 90%, 10-year tax abatement for another f***ing hotel is absolute nonsense.

90% seems like a lot but since it involves one less surface parking lot and the creation of 40 jobs, I say let it happen. It could've been higher than that and we could've gotten a crappy design. This is an ok design but it is what it is. The LCRA and Jack Coatar both support the measure so I am pretty sure it will be approved.

stlien · PostMay 21, 2019#602019-05-21T01:32+00:00

chriss752 wrote: The LCRA will review this tomorrow (May 21st) at their meeting. Some specifics have gotten out...
- Will cost $16,450,000
- Tax abatement requested to be 90% for 10 years.
- 40 permanent and 10 part-time jobs.

No construction timeline was given but it’s making it’s way through the proper development boards at this point.

Did you "read" $16 million or "hear" it? That cost seems very low. The Last Hotel has 142 rooms and cost $54 million.

SeattleNative · PostMay 21, 2019#612019-05-21T01:37+00:00

stlien wrote:
chriss752 wrote: The LCRA will review this tomorrow (May 21st) at their meeting. Some specifics have gotten out...
- Will cost $16,450,000
- Tax abatement requested to be 90% for 10 years.
- 40 permanent and 10 part-time jobs.

No construction timeline was given but it’s making it’s way through the proper development boards at this point.
Did you "read" $16 million or "hear" it? That cost seems very low. The Last Hotel has 142 rooms and cost $54 million.

This is more of a budget hotel with no parking. That may speak to cost difference.

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chriss752 · PostMay 21, 2019#622019-05-21T01:57+00:00

stlien wrote:
chriss752 wrote: The LCRA will review this tomorrow (May 21st) at their meeting. Some specifics have gotten out...
- Will cost $16,450,000
- Tax abatement requested to be 90% for 10 years.
- 40 permanent and 10 part-time jobs.

No construction timeline was given but it’s making it’s way through the proper development boards at this point.
Did you "read" $16 million or "hear" it? That cost seems very low. The Last Hotel has 142 rooms and cost $54 million.

It says here what the cost is, direct from the LCRA Document. The cost does seem low but I think the Last costed more because it was in an older building that required a whole bunch of work to be done.

goat314 · PostMay 21, 2019#632019-05-21T02:31+00:00

^ I agree, a lot of new construction is actually cheaper than renovation a 100 year old building. That is exactly why the historic tax credits are such an asset for preservationists. Just imagine, we spend $100M renovating short and bulky historic buildings, but a city like Nashville spends $100M and they get a 30+ story apartment building. I really think the downtown St. Louis' height and skyline will noticeably change once we are done renovating these buildings. This may be the first in the line of many. I could see 20-30 story high rises being proposed regularly in the next 10 years.

chriss752 · PostMay 21, 2019#642019-05-21T21:38+00:00

Jacob Barker picked up on the Moxy. His story doesn't include anything else that we don't already know.

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local ... 4882f.html

arch city · PostMay 21, 2019#652019-05-21T22:11+00:00

No study is necessary. These people/firms are investors. They aren't trying to lose money, but their investments are still a gamble. Let them gamble. If the dirty dingy hotels are cannibalized by the new ones so be it.

Also, this is not a new bridge to cross. Downtown has been here before and the market turned out fine. Occupancy did drop slightly, as I recall, but it was not catastrophic. Investors just stopped building hotels for a while. Many existing hotels upgraded their properties to stay hot or better compete.

People need to realize that a lot of positive things are happening downtown (or are about to) that will necessitate more hotel rooms for visitors and tourists. The varying hotel brands and price points have to meet that demand.

-BPV expansion
-Union Station aquarium and Ferris wheel
-The Arch grounds and museum
-The new soccer stadium
-The new pro football team
-Convention Center expansion
-Competing for SEC/NCAA tournaments

stl07 · PostMay 22, 2019#662019-05-22T15:52+00:00

It's funny that for years we have all been waiting for this "explosion" of STL to happen and when it finally does, everyone is questioning it

shadrach · PostMay 22, 2019#672019-05-22T16:22+00:00

Downtown desperately needs some fresh new, bright architecture

Forever_Lou · PostMay 23, 2019#682019-05-23T18:07+00:00

Don't know if it was noted elsewhere, but the Old Omni Majestic Hotel next door to the proposed Moxy is getting renovated. Add this to the slew of hotels being developed. Seems beyond excessive at this point.

https://stlouiscnr.com/poettker-constru ... onversion/

newstl2020 · PostMay 24, 2019#692019-05-24T04:02+00:00

^Yup. I'm sure your casual observations of "seems beyond excessive" are more concrete than companies making hard dollar investment decisions. St. Louis has 4 new hotels/conversions announced in the CBD and it's "beyond excessive" yet Nashville, a city with a million less in the metro area, sees 5 times as many new construction hotel proposals and you'll croon about how Nashville is "so hot right now!" (not a comment on Nashville V StL just using it for a placeholder) Honestly astounded you people take the time to comment on this board. This thread will be the death of my association with this forum at its current pace. ***All the headbanging against wall emojis***

goat314 · PostMay 24, 2019#702019-05-24T04:30+00:00

newstl2020 wrote: ^Yup. I'm sure your casual observations of "seems beyond excessive" are more concrete than companies making hard dollar investment decisions. St. Louis has 4 new hotels/conversions announced in the CBD and it's "beyond excessive" yet Nashville, a city with a million less in the metro area, sees 5 times as many new construction hotel proposals and you'll croon about how Nashville is "so hot right now!" (not a comment on Nashville V StL just using it for a placeholder) Honestly astounded you people take the time to comment on this board. This thread will be the death of my association with this forum at its current pace. ***All the headbanging against wall emojis***

Good point. I've heard that St. Louis has lost out on some big conventions, because we didn't have enough capacity or the quality of hotels that they were looking for. A friend of mine went an engineering conference for young people about 10 years ago and had to get a hotel in Richmond Heights, all the other hotels were booked. I'm sure that skewed his perception of the city. He didn't really hang out, he just went to the meetings for a few days and took a cab back to his room around 10pm every night. Keep in mind, this is when Washington Avenue was really hopping. Full hotels also help get rid of those empty store fronts and do wonders for downtown restaurants/retail. I see few negatives with the addition of more retail. Tourist also keep downtowns open later, not the residents that have to wake up and go to work the next day. Most of the town when I've traveled the only people at a restaurant or frequenting nightclubs on a weekday night were out of towners.

TCB · PostMay 24, 2019#712019-05-24T13:47+00:00

newstl2020 wrote: ^Yup. I'm sure your casual observations of "seems beyond excessive" are more concrete than companies making hard dollar investment decisions. St. Louis has 4 new hotels/conversions announced in the CBD and it's "beyond excessive" yet Nashville, a city with a million less in the metro area, sees 5 times as many new construction hotel proposals and you'll croon about how Nashville is "so hot right now!" (not a comment on Nashville V StL just using it for a placeholder) Honestly astounded you people take the time to comment on this board. This thread will be the death of my association with this forum at its current pace. ***All the headbanging against wall emojis***

Post of the year candidate.

kipfilet · PostMay 28, 2019#722019-05-28T15:39+00:00

Just last week someone I know had to fly last minute from SF for a work meeting in downtown STL and the closest available room they could find was at the Forest Park Holiday Inn.

Forever_Lou · PostMay 28, 2019#732019-05-28T18:21+00:00

^Yup. I'm sure your casual observations of "seems beyond excessive" are more concrete than companies making hard dollar investment decisions. St. Louis has 4 new hotels/conversions announced in the CBD and it's "beyond excessive" yet Nashville, a city with a million less in the metro area, sees 5 times as many new construction hotel proposals and you'll croon about how Nashville is "so hot right now!" (not a comment on Nashville V StL just using it for a placeholder) Honestly astounded you people take the time to comment on this board. This thread will be the death of my association with this forum at its current pace. ***All the headbanging against wall emojis***

Jesus, newstl2020. I'm sorry I added the beyond excessive comment. It was a quick, simple post and I probably should have thought a little more before adding that last sentence. I'm sorry I didn't have time to do a bunch of market research and write a 3-part thesis on the subject. I just know there's been several posts in other threads about if downtown can absorb the amount of hotel rooms that are being proposed. I'm not an expert in hotel statistics. No need to rip my head off and go on a rampage about how we're all oblivious morons and threaten to leave the forum. I hope all of these hotels succeed, and I'm sure their developers have done the research. ***** me for adding that last sentence. Hope you aren't concussed from all your headbanging. Congrats on the post of the year. You crushed me.

walker · PostMay 28, 2019#742019-05-28T18:34+00:00

Let's return to the primary topic on this thread, no?

Forever_Lou · PostMay 28, 2019#752019-05-28T19:02+00:00

I'd love to, walker. Why don't you tell newstl2020 to cool it with the condescending attacks? We're all on the same team here. I've been following this forum for at least 10 years. I even contributed to the kickstarter campaign to help keep this site alive when Alex was leaving. That was about as rude of a reply as I've seen.

The Moxy St. Louis - 11th & Olive

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