NIMBY Rails is available in early access, just buy that and start playing around.
- 2,929
An interesting consideration with ART Tram-Streetcars is that, as the technology advances, the City may be able to implement it without necessarily involving a full County roll-out. I believe that, as ART proves itself and is recognized as reasonably affordable, the City can do this on their own. The County may or may not want to participate in this, which is fine, because ART seems more inclined towards dense urban grid environments. The County remains a very viable area for Light Rail transportation, say to Westport or to Butler Hill. So, City focuses on ART, County focuses on Light Rail, and everyone wins.
- 2,056
Not to mention we have a decent amount of overly-wide city streets.
- 6,123
^^Gone Corporate, that sounds like a reasonable proposition.
^^^MarkHaversham, sold. I wish they had busses in the game. Maybe they do. (Here's hoping. Make it a combined, intermodal experience.)
^^^MarkHaversham, sold. I wish they had busses in the game. Maybe they do. (Here's hoping. Make it a combined, intermodal experience.)
- 1,291
^ Since it's in early access, I can't imagine they won't add buses soon if they haven't already.
Thank you for pointing that game out, Mark; it's been added to my 500+ item Steam wishlist
Thank you for pointing that game out, Mark; it's been added to my 500+ item Steam wishlist
Responding to something sc wrote in the Loop Trolley thread. It really feels like St. Louis is turning a corner on TOD - with the developments on Debaliviere as the most obvious examples. Almost every station from Laclede's Landing to Clayton (plus Delmar) has had significant recent projects constructed or redeveloped within a 1/2 mile (or much closer) of a station. Big Bend might be the only exception.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Jan 28, 2021^ It’s amazing how many people in STL forget that the Loop has two (nearly three) light rail stations within walking distance of it already.
Here you go...happy Friday! Now to all of our resident "experts," be nice, this is just for fun.addxb2 wrote: ↑Jan 26, 2021^ I absolutely want to see this when complete and have been on the same wavelength!
Light rail:
Like I said earlier this tracks (heh) pretty closely with the region's existing long range light rail plans, minus the shifting of the existing center city alignment to Olive/Lindell. I did cut the Florissant and Westport extensions in favor of more traditional commuter rail. I also cut off the Butler Hill and Telegraph legs...mostly because I forgot about them (and because of extended commuter rails). I originally thought about running a commuter line up to Spanish Lake but the city portion would have run almost exclusively through industrial and river adjacent areas, so I extended the yellow line out there instead. In the beginning the yellow, or Cross City line, ran only between North and South Broadway.
The light blue lines are what I'm calling Park Shuttles for now. They run between Forest Park, Carondelet Park, and Fairgrounds Park. The main purpose was to provide better westbound service for North and South City residents who would have to transfer at Jefferson without it. Plus St. Louisans love their parks. This line could eventually be extended to the airport if necessary.
Commuter Rail:
Commuter rail is where I got into St. Louis' older railroad history a bit. Most all of these lines run on old historic passenger routes (with some edits). With the shifting of the original center city light rail corridor to Olive/Lindell, this opens the city portion of the old Wabash railroad for passenger service again (which would also maintain rail service at BJC/WU and other institutions in that corridor. The "Served By:" boxes list the various attractions within a mile or two of the commuter stations. The idea was to provide service to parks and other attractions to drive ridership. Most of them are accessible by foot, by greenway connections to the stations or maybe a short Lyft or Uber if necessary.
The names are mostly my own doing. The Southsider is pretty self explanatory, the Frisco runs on the old Frisco alignment, the Pacific runs on the old MoPac and current UP alignment and the Banshee runs along Banshee Road near the airport and Boeing...plus I think The Banshee is a badass name for a train. The Blue Bird and the Cannon Ball are historical names from the old Wabash Railroad. The Blue Bird used to run between St. Louis and Chicago...the Cannon Ball I believe used to run partially on the old Rock Island? Destinations could be changed. I added Jefferson City because I think it makes sense to have the state's largest city connected to its capital, but that could be cut off in Hermann.
Other Services:
I also added some "high frequency bus" service. This does not have to be BRT or anything fancy...really buses that run every 10min or so would suffice. I've depicted the following lines here (though there could/should be more of them):
Washington/MLK/Rock Road
Chouteau/Manchester
Grand/Gravois
Chippewa
Kingshighway
Lindbergh
The 39 North Shuttle would run from the Warson Station on the Cannon Ball line out to Bayer, Danforth and the Old Olive corridor where Creve Coeur is building some density. The Creve Port Shuttle would run along Craig Road between Downtown Creve Coeur and Westport Plaza connecting with the Cannon Ball at the Craig Station.
I also depicted a few greenway connections I would make. I could have added more of these, more high frequency buses, etc. but didn't want to clutter the map up too much.
If you right click and select view image in a separate tab, you should be able to get some good zoom.
Enjoy!
- 6,123
^Your Wabash names are positively on point. May I recommend Bluebonnet or Firefly for the Frisco train and Scenic and Eagle for the MoP trains? Maybe even offer to keep the bridges in paint for Uncle Peter to sweeten the deal. I think I'd leave Metrolink alone and move the Banshee and Bluebird onto the NS Luther line via Jennings and the Cannonball onto the TRRA West Belt via Hillsdale. I figure that would be both cheaper and easier, since shared commuter and light rail operations on the old Wabash RoW past Forest Park would require at least a third track and some complicated separation concerns everywhere they cross. (Reconnecting to the NS would reintroduce FRA regs and all that entails, so it's probably best to keep the two systems well and truly separate.) However, I love the possibilities your alignment down Olive opens up, so I'd be in favor of adding it as a modern streetcar, ART, or BRT operation.
Also, a truly lovely map.
Also, a truly lovely map.
^ Thanks! The commuter system was designed to be completely separate. While they do share a right of way with MetroLink partially, it would be on separate tracks in this fantasy (yes it would require new tracks and be pretty pricy, but this is just for fun anyway).
Originally I had commuter trains running via Jennings, etc. Even thought about having trains come down via the tracks under the Arch with a station at the Arch Grounds...but I felt like the corridor I ended up with here was quicker and more direct for coming from the west (plus maintaining rail service at or near BJC, SLU Med, Busch Stadium, etc.).
I was actually thinking about making another map with the existing MetroLink left alone (no Olive/Lindell shift) and maybe some other changes. We’ll have to see...they’re super easy to make (I literally made this with the PDF viewer on my MacBook)...but it takes some time.
Originally I had commuter trains running via Jennings, etc. Even thought about having trains come down via the tracks under the Arch with a station at the Arch Grounds...but I felt like the corridor I ended up with here was quicker and more direct for coming from the west (plus maintaining rail service at or near BJC, SLU Med, Busch Stadium, etc.).
I was actually thinking about making another map with the existing MetroLink left alone (no Olive/Lindell shift) and maybe some other changes. We’ll have to see...they’re super easy to make (I literally made this with the PDF viewer on my MacBook)...but it takes some time.
- 339
I would favor running a high-frequency bus down Hampton or Skinker to better serve SW City! As someone who used to take the 90 to Catalan, they only come once every half an hour or so. I'm not sure if it has since been changed due to Metro Reimagined, but it is one of the very few things I would recommend adding. Really good stuff!
^ I very nearly put one on Skinker! Hampton is an excellent call...hadn't thought of that. Good access to Forest Park too...
- 339
I used to catch the 4:15 bus after school, and it was common to have to stand for the first 10 minutes before a seat opened up. It was really pretty busy. BRT would not work here, but it would be great for Metro to have 10-minute intervals at rush hour (7:30 - 8:30 and 3:30 - 6:30).
Nice to see a stop near my present house. Silver, Blue and Green lines would all be within a 10 minute walk for me..
The blue line extension from Shrewsbury to Bayless, with stations at Loughborough, Gravois and MorganFord hopefully is squarely in the realm of possibility, even if it would require eminent domain for 25 or so singe family homes.
^ I’d actually drop the portion past Morgan Ford underground to preserve those homes, but yes, I think the Cross County line could actually happen. It’s only about 14 miles of new track (as I’ve laid it out here).
If you're proposing mining underneath a handful of wood frame ranch homes, then this discussion definitely seems appropriate for the fantasy thread: Metrolink ideas and fantasies
^ Well the whole thing’s a fantasy lol...but I didn’t know that thread existed...good to know. There are so many MetroLink threads lol.
The southern extension of the Blue Line could be further extended along the River Des Peres and then go south...I cut it down to Bayless sooner here though, for no particular reason. Certainly no reason some reasonable changes and edits couldn’t be made though.
The southern extension of the Blue Line could be further extended along the River Des Peres and then go south...I cut it down to Bayless sooner here though, for no particular reason. Certainly no reason some reasonable changes and edits couldn’t be made though.
A red line spur to Downtown Ferguson (which you have as part of a commuter rail system) seems like another real possibility as the abandoned ROW is there for the taking.
Concerning a Blue Line extension, adding a just a few stations along Des Peres (Loughborough, Gravois, MorganFord) or the BNSF ROW (Watson, Marlborough, Affton/Gravois) would go a long way toward shoring up South County support for future transit initiatives. It certainly wouldn't win over everyone, but could cause a material shift in support from an area that understandably feels left out (and comparatively less supportive) of all things Metrolink.
![]()
Concerning a Blue Line extension, adding a just a few stations along Des Peres (Loughborough, Gravois, MorganFord) or the BNSF ROW (Watson, Marlborough, Affton/Gravois) would go a long way toward shoring up South County support for future transit initiatives. It certainly wouldn't win over everyone, but could cause a material shift in support from an area that understandably feels left out (and comparatively less supportive) of all things Metrolink.
- 6,123
Funny that you should mention that. One of my favorite lost stations was a multi-level commuter station on the TRRA at just that spot. If I understand it correctly there were entrances from both Lenore Sullivan and Washington at the base and top of the building, and platforms along the high line and possibly on the Eads Bridge itself. There was also street running down Lenore Sullivan, though it served primarily as a connection between the TRRA Merchants district and the MoP Lesperance Street yard, so I doubt they had commuter operations along it. (There would have been no good way to get from the waterfront line to Union Station. Though I did see 4449 there as a kid in her Freedom Train guise. Which wouldn't have been too long after the photo below was taken.)sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jan 30, 2021Even thought about having trains come down via the tracks under the Arch with a station at the Arch Grounds...
Sure, I make some similar maps myself. They're not technically difficult to make, but they do take real time. (Particularly one that size. I usually use GIMP, but there's tons of software that would be adequate to the task.) And yours is unusually well constructed and well thought out, so my kudos to you.I was actually thinking about making another map with the existing MetroLink left alone (no Olive/Lindell shift) and maybe some other changes. We’ll have to see...they’re super easy to make (I literally made this with the PDF viewer on my MacBook)...but it takes some time.
Or instead of a Red line spur, the Silver line could be extended up towards Ferguson (from Clayton) and then extended out to Florissant in the right of way I've marked as a commuter rail here.wabash wrote: ↑Jan 31, 2021A red line spur to Downtown Ferguson (which you have as part of a commuter rail system) seems like another real possibility as the abandoned ROW is there for the taking.
Concerning a Blue Line extension, adding a just a few stations along Des Peres (Loughborough, Gravois, MorganFord) or the BNSF ROW (Watson, Marlborough, Affton/Gravois) would go a long way toward shoring up South County support for future transit initiatives. It certainly wouldn't win over everyone, but could cause a material shift in support from an area that understandably feels left out (and comparatively less supportive) of all things Metrolink.
I considered the BNSF right of way for the Blue line extension myself. I'm not crazy about running a train through the River Des Peres parks and BNSF is a bit more direct to deeper South County...but I think the city neighborhoods on the southwest side offer a bit more density for transit than the BNSF routing.
Sincerely appreciate that, SP. Especially that last part. Wasn't originally planning on getting that detailed but once I started getting into it, I started having some fun with it. Anyway, thanks again and thanks for the short history lesson!symphonicpoet:
Sure, I make some similar maps myself. They're not technically difficult to make, but they do take real time. (Particularly one that size. I usually use GIMP, but there's tons of software that would be adequate to the task.) And yours is unusually well constructed and well thought out, so my kudos to you.
- 2,632
Southside River Des Peres route becomes particularly amazing if it connects to N/S at 55
It is probably one of the easier routes/extension to engineer as well as most cost effective because a big chunk of the right of way is already public domain with some room to work with versus the alternate of extending along/next to BNSF RoW/tracks. Still scratch my head why Bi-state hasn't been more aggressive in looking to extend current metrolink from Shrewsbury.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Feb 02, 2021Southside River Des Peres route becomes particularly amazing if it connects to N/S at 55
^ Bi-State has no role in planning or expanding routes. They only operate what EWG plans, funds, and builds.
Stenger at one time had planned on studying many of these county routes, but gave the contract to a political donor, and then when that was found out I believe the contract was pulled and the studies never completed.
Stenger at one time had planned on studying many of these county routes, but gave the contract to a political donor, and then when that was found out I believe the contract was pulled and the studies never completed.
Pete confirmed yesterday. Now time for POTUS and Pete to lay out infrastructure stimulus plan for April/May timeframe.
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ary--62585
The U.S. Senate yesterday voted 86-13 to confirm Pete Buttigieg as U.S. transportation secretary in President Joe Biden's administration.
After the vote, several rail industry leaders offered statements of congratulations and praise for Buttigieg, who will oversee a federal department that employs about 55,000 people. The U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) is expected to play a major role in the Biden administration's efforts to combat climate change.
Buttigieg's "clearly stated support for our nation's rail network" is welcomed by the Association of American Railroads (AAR) and its members, said AAR President and Chief Executive Officer Ian Jefferies.
https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... ary--62585
The U.S. Senate yesterday voted 86-13 to confirm Pete Buttigieg as U.S. transportation secretary in President Joe Biden's administration.
After the vote, several rail industry leaders offered statements of congratulations and praise for Buttigieg, who will oversee a federal department that employs about 55,000 people. The U.S. Department of Transportation (USDOT) is expected to play a major role in the Biden administration's efforts to combat climate change.
Buttigieg's "clearly stated support for our nation's rail network" is welcomed by the Association of American Railroads (AAR) and its members, said AAR President and Chief Executive Officer Ian Jefferies.