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PostNov 08, 2009#111

JCity wrote:
In the "where to play" section on the website, they have a picture of the Rams... really? how about a cool shot of Cherokee street, Benton Park, Loop. something that would make someone want to move here.. the rams shot...wow... In the "where to live" section, a trite shot of the arch and downtown. didn't they just redo this site? who's in charge?


#-o

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PostNov 08, 2009#112

ThreeOneFour wrote:And I think people here are simply pointing out that a flaw inventory for other cities would probably be just as long and/or difficult to address.



We strive to make this forum a vehicle for positive discussion about St. Louis, but if you'll take a closer look at conversations around here, about issues like the delicate balance between chain establishments and local businesses in downtown and other revitalized areas, homelessness, and crime, I don't exactly think we're a bunch of Pollyannas with our heads in the clouds. I think many of us have already taken inventory of St. Louis' challenges one way or another at some point.



Besides, it's so simple to do a flaw inventory for any city. Let's take Houston, for example. Flaw #1: It's in Texas. :lol: :wink:
Let's address the flaw inventory specific to St. Louis. Let's not deflect. Houston has an unemployment rate, but St. Louis' higher. Why? Houston has a city government, so does St. Louis, however, which one is more effective and has fewer people governing a larger population and square miles? Crime is bad in Houston, trust me, but St. Louis makes the top "Most Dangerous Cities" list annually, when other cities of similar size do not. It explains my point about the social conditions (unemployment, poverty, education, disease, crime etc.) that are problematic in St. Louis. All cities share some of the same social problems, but some problems are more acute in certain cities than others.



Further, I was in Cincy this summer, its riverfront pees on St. Louis' now. The combined Cincy and Covington riverfronts make St. Louis' waterfront look ridiculous - and this was not always the case. St. Louis used to have a very vibrant waterfront. Outside of a few festivals - it's dead. I say it's poor leadership. All talk and no action. How long have we've waited to see the lid and other elaborate plans come to fruition? Hell, the Gateway Foundation can't do it all.



And trust me, I read the comments here. I might not sign on or respond every time because I do have a life, but I do manage to read a lot of the comments on this board - on my slow days. I have read how homeless people have been called "hobos" and "bums". I also know there are people who have made logical suggestions about how to remedy problems facing downtown and the city. The problem is not with them, but it is with the city, regional leadership, the business and real estate community - and citizens who are lazy and complacent. They want to be top tier and respected, but don't do enough to reach that goal. People like Joe Edwards are God-sends to St. Louis. Imagine him times a 1000 - and that's what you have in Houston. Inspiring visionaries that make things happen. The Kemah Boardwalk was the vision of one man.



And for the record, I don't think of Houston (or any other city) as flawless perfect cities, however, there is a "can do" mentality and community cooperation/spirit in Houston that escapes St. Louis. It's refreshing and it's something I wish for St. Louis.

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PostNov 08, 2009#113

Crime is bad in Houston, trust me, but St. Louis makes the top "Most Dangerous Cities" list annually, when other cities of similar size do not.


arch, as you know, cities should be ranked by metro area. We don't even crack the to 30. Safer than Oklahoma City.



I agree with you on lack of leadership. We need more of a "how can we fix the problem" attitude. But you go off on a tangent spouting out all of the typical "woe-is-me-St.Louisan" banter. Quite honestly, you certainly seem fixated on commenting negatively on St. Louis and you don't even live here. sounds like someone is a little infatuated, but I do agree with some of your points and understand your goal is to make it better.

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PostNov 09, 2009#114

Arch City wrote:
And for the record, I don't think of Houston (or any other city) as flawless perfect cities, however, there is a "can do" mentality and community cooperation/spirit in Houston that escapes St. Louis. It's refreshing and it's something I wish for St. Louis.


I think it hurts St. Louis that downtown and much of the city is a peninsula sticking into Illinois. Its not the center of the metro region. (Not unlike Detroit) That could change if the Illinois side takes off and re-centers the metro area around downtown. In the 1970's, we were about to build a new International Airport in Columbia Illinois. That would have helped the city a lot. But the Missouri Democratic Congressmen Young and Senator Eagleton got President Carter to kill it when he was elected.



I still think there is a desire in the entire metro area for downtown and the city to thrive. People flock there from all over for sports and festivals like Mardi Gras in spite of the distance. A city/counter merger would generate efficiencies that would allow tax cuts to both areas, and give the County residents a way to invest in the success of downtown and the city. Right now the county only contributes to the Metro, MSD, and Zoo/Museum district.



Houston doesn't have the split problem. But Houston has other problems. Bigger isn't always better. In the last metro area per capita crime rankings, Houston is 34, St. Louis is 127.



http://os.cqpress.com/citycrime/MetroCr ... nk_Rev.pdf



Houston probably has higher crime per person in all metro categories -- downtown, urban core, and suburbs.

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PostNov 09, 2009#115

Arch City wrote:Let's address the flaw inventory specific to St. Louis. Let's not deflect.


Well, FWIW, I wasn't trying to deflect or compare anything. :)



I was simply reiterating my original point- that it's quite simple to create a lengthy "flaw inventory" for any community. I won't deny that St. Louis has serious problems, some of which will be difficult if not impossible to address, but most of us realize that the grass is always greener somewhere else.

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PostNov 11, 2009#116

That would have helped the city a lot. But the Missouri Democratic Congressmen Young and Senator Eagleton got President Carter to kill it when he was elected.


I think this would have helped our region a lot, but maybe it wouldn't have. look at KCI. they built that airport in the wrong place. the growth still went west, not north.

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PostNov 22, 2009#117

In a story about Nine North





"It was a challenge to design an urban, modern product that fits the context of an historical neighborhood and still strikes a chord with the

St. Louis market," Downs said. "We've found that the St. Louis market can only accept so much progression. If we were building in New York City,

we would build something a generation or two ahead of this. This has more of a homey feel to it than we would build in New York," he said.



http://www.stlouiscnr.com/features/arti ... _st_louis/

PostNov 23, 2009#118

^ Any thoughts on whyhow Opus came to this determination that St. Louis residents are less excepting of "progressive" architecture? Obviously, this is the feedback they are recieving from their market research, but why???? In the CWE of all places I would think folks would be open to just about anything.



thoughts?

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PostNov 24, 2009#119

i kind of think it's bs, but I could be wrong. St. Louis has some modern buildings, certainly not enough though. I really with the Art Houses happened, but after Grand Center Inc. leveled the entire neighborhood around it, it probably will take decades to fill it back in.

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PostNov 24, 2009#120

Moorlander wrote:^ Any thoughts on whyhow Opus came to this determination that St. Louis residents are less excepting of "progressive" architecture? Obviously, this is the feedback they are recieving from their market research, but why???? In the CWE of all places I would think folks would be open to just about anything.



thoughts?


I've only been here a relatively short time (1 1/2 years), but I notice this constantly.



From my limited experience, it's not just that St. Louis residents are less excepting of progressive architecture; often people actively and vocally detest it. And this includes people on these very boards, people trained in the design field, etc. (Of course that's the same as most places.)



As far as new(ish) buildings go, the most progressive building in town is easily Tadao Ando's Pulitzer. And how many people like it? ... Or even understand it? I'd bet not many.



I'm afraid Opus is spot on. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I honestly don't see more than a handful of (recent) progressive buildings... Of course there's still a lot of great design out there, I'm just not sure how much is truly progressive.

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PostNov 24, 2009#121

Heather Woofter and Sung Ho Kim are the most progressive architects I know of in St. Louis (they both teach at Wash. U.).



They've got a show up right now at the Bruno David Gallery that really surprised me - I had no idea such stuff was coming out of St. Louis. Their proposal for the "Media Arcade" in Grand Center is really something.



Here's more info on their show, but you really need to see it in person:



http://www.brunodavidgallery.com/exhibi ... space_id=2

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PostNov 25, 2009#122

^ Absolutely... terrific work that certainly qualifies as progressive. I really hope that some of their fantastic work gets built. (Has any?) For anyone who isn't familiar with their work, here's the firm's website:



http://www.axi-ome.net/

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PostNov 25, 2009#123

The media arcade looks cool. Any chance that it will actually become a reality?

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PostNov 25, 2009#124

DeBaliviere wrote:The media arcade looks cool. Any chance that it will actually become a reality?


A couple months ago I saw some renderings of a project in Grand Center that's a collaboration between axi-ome and the Lawrence Group... not sure if they're the same project or not. It looked similar to the Media Arcade although it definitely had differences. Don't know what the status is of said collaborative project, but if something gets built that even halfway resembles the renderings then it will arguably be the coolest building in town.



Anyone know anything about this? Or better yet have the renderings to share?

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PostNov 26, 2009#125

My suggestion is to go see the show at Bruno David Gallery. They've got a scale model of the Media Arcade on display, plus a terrific book on Woofter/Kim's work, including many more images of the Media Arcade and several other local proposals. Lots of "wow" factors.



BTW, one of Grand Center's long-term plans is a mid-rise gallery/commercial/residential building which would go on the lot between the Sheldon and the Pulitzer. It would be designed by an as yet unnamed "starchitect".



Whether or not any of this gets built, I have no idea.

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