urbanSTL

Arch City wrote:

MattnSTL wrote:I think we need to go back and define the definition of what exactly is progressive to start with.

I think it is going to depend on the individual and what they perceive as "progressive" as it pertains to St. Louis.



The basic definition is here.

I am still reeling about the I-64/40 comment from you, Arch City.



People holding onto local traditions is not regressive. Having a sense of the past and holding onto it does not automatically equal regressive.



Quite simply, some of the recent “progress” in the city is effectively regressive or at least status quo. “The New I-64” is an excellent example. Where are the HOV lanes? Where are the trees and sculpture? Where are the overpasses with neighborhood murals? Where is the urban boulevard or tunnel that should have been created south of Forest Park to connect the region’s largest park to its surrounding neighborhoods? Why does a Metrolink expansion run over, get tied up in litigation, and see a punitive response from St. Louis County taxpayers—all this, while a highway EXPANSION project runs on time, at budget? Where was the round-after-round of citizen advisory committee meetings making recommendations on the “New I-64”? Does anyone have a copy of the environmental impact statement, the historic documentation of properties demolished for new highway lanes, a link to the ordinance authorizing a special fuel tax dedicated to reducing private automobile usage and encouraging public transportation?



I don’t care WHAT it’s called—rebuilding I-64 to be larger and more efficient for vehicles was a regressive/status quo action. I for one, will never call it I-64 in conversation. I’d like to see most of the city’s interstates removed altogether, turned into urban boulevards, and renamed by their cutesy, original names (I-70 = Mark Twain Blvd.; I-55 Ozark Expressway; I-64 Daniel Boone Blvd.). I guess that makes me REALLY regressive.



You had a couple of other points that are really head-scratchers, too.



Ultimately, though, your posts state what most of us already know--we have tons of issues to work through. Tons. We're one of the nation's most declined and disinvested cities. The fact that we're not perfect--or even forward-looking--is not new to most citizens of St. Louis. We need to actually start addressing and tackling these issues with bold leadership.



We're going to change things. The visionless bureaucrats of old are fading, if slowly. There are hundreds now, if not thousands, seeing the possibilities of St. Louis in spite of a regressive/reactive government. This increasingly large group is the type that is going to get involved and shake things up.



We don't need a flaw inventory; we need action items.

goat314 wrote:Arch City you are the status quo. The fact that you are throwing rocks at St. Louis from Houston, TX (which is not such a great town in my humble opinion) is the epitome of the St. Louis mentality! If all these so-called progressives that leave St. Louis (because its a racist, backwards, conservative, unattractive hellhole with no potential) would actually stay and fight the good fight, maybe St. Louis would have been a different place 20 years ago.



If cleaning up the city is such an easy task that just takes some common sense then why don't you run for political office?



I'm tired of people moving 1000 miles away to some shiny, sunbelt town bashing my old, rusty hometown. Its not perfect, but this forum is for people that love St. Louis and have optimistic outlooks and constructive solutions. Hasn't St. Louie been beaten down enough? Its time to look at the brighter side and as far as I see it, the only place to go for St. Louis is up. We will most likely always be a slow growth region, but that just makes change that much sweeter when it happens.

I feel you dude. For the record, I have throwing rocks and flowers at St. Louis from Houston on forums throughout Cyberspace for a long damn time. A long damn time.



I even created a board (the predecessor to urbanstlouis) - where moderators were more harmonious - because I wanted the best and still want the best for that social dump known as St. Louis. I guess I've become more abrasive in my expressions of displeasure in some aspects.



Like I said previously, I am in St. Louis more now than ever before. You've probably seen me downtown, in restaurants, driving down "Farty", in Citygarden, on MetroLink, at a Cardinals game on the riverfront, over on the Casino Queen or on that Godforsaken Lumiere Place casino. I am in St. Louis a lot nowadays for personal and professional reasons.



In regards to Houston, jobs losses have been minimal, corporations have relocated to Houston, both airports are expanding and upgrading, the University of Houston is on the cusp of being a Tier 1 research university, Entrepreneurialship is not an issue. The medical center with its teaching institutions is growing by leaps and bounds - including the public teaching institutions. Although it isn't perfect, diversity is a mantra here. They even have a diversity festival and an international festival. Houston could possibly elect its first openly gay mayor (a female) or its second black mayor next month. The housing market is still booming. Houston's poised to add more light rail lines than St. Louis in the upcoming years. It's transit system hasn't begged for stimulus money. Not slamming St. Louis, but I could go on and on. Yes, Houston is a sprawling nightmare on the Gulf Coast, but people like it here because - not just because it is a SunBelt City - but because it is progressive for them. Not perfect, but they tend to get things done here. And let's not even mention Dallas - where I lived for a short time too. Was there recently and their new downtown development puts Houston's to shame.



I am not dogging St. Louis and I truly wish I could live there continuously. I have seen some nice homes in the city - but per capita there are too many ignorant people there. If you get my blood pressure up in Cyberspace - imagine what it would be like for me if I lived there full-time.

^^ Difficult to take you seriously when you continue to refer to our home as a "social dump." It is not.

Grover wrote:^^ Difficult to take you seriously when you continue to refer to our home as a "social dump." It is not.

I think Arch was going for an irony approach on that line, not that he actually sees it as one.

Matt Drops The H wrote:I am still reeling about the I-64/40 comment from you, Arch City.



People holding onto local traditions is not regressive. Having a sense of the past and holding onto it does not automatically equal regressive.

It's a tradition? Eating toasted ravioli, gooey butter cake, Ted Drewes, pig snoot and pork steak etc. is tradition. Forty was not even the first highway in St. Louis.

Matt Drops The H wrote:We don't need a flaw inventory; we need action items.

I think in order to determine what progress is needed, a "flaw inventory" is necessary. How can you progress without it? A "flaw inventory" list in many ways is by default action items.

ThreeOneFour wrote:And I think people here are simply pointing out that a flaw inventory for other cities would probably be just as long and/or difficult to address.



We strive to make this forum a vehicle for positive discussion about St. Louis, but if you'll take a closer look at conversations around here, about issues like the delicate balance between chain establishments and local businesses in downtown and other revitalized areas, homelessness, and crime, I don't exactly think we're a bunch of Pollyannas with our heads in the clouds. I think many of us have already taken inventory of St. Louis' challenges one way or another at some point.



Besides, it's so simple to do a flaw inventory for any city. Let's take Houston, for example. Flaw #1: It's in Texas.

Let's address the flaw inventory specific to St. Louis. Let's not deflect. Houston has an unemployment rate, but St. Louis' higher. Why? Houston has a city government, so does St. Louis, however, which one is more effective and has fewer people governing a larger population and square miles? Crime is bad in Houston, trust me, but St. Louis makes the top "Most Dangerous Cities" list annually, when other cities of similar size do not. It explains my point about the social conditions (unemployment, poverty, education, disease, crime etc.) that are problematic in St. Louis. All cities share some of the same social problems, but some problems are more acute in certain cities than others.



Further, I was in Cincy this summer, its riverfront pees on St. Louis' now. The combined Cincy and Covington riverfronts make St. Louis' waterfront look ridiculous - and this was not always the case. St. Louis used to have a very vibrant waterfront. Outside of a few festivals - it's dead. I say it's poor leadership. All talk and no action. How long have we've waited to see the lid and other elaborate plans come to fruition? Hell, the Gateway Foundation can't do it all.



And trust me, I read the comments here. I might not sign on or respond every time because I do have a life, but I do manage to read a lot of the comments on this board - on my slow days. I have read how homeless people have been called "hobos" and "bums". I also know there are people who have made logical suggestions about how to remedy problems facing downtown and the city. The problem is not with them, but it is with the city, regional leadership, the business and real estate community - and citizens who are lazy and complacent. They want to be top tier and respected, but don't do enough to reach that goal. People like Joe Edwards are God-sends to St. Louis. Imagine him times a 1000 - and that's what you have in Houston. Inspiring visionaries that make things happen. The Kemah Boardwalk was the vision of one man.



And for the record, I don't think of Houston (or any other city) as flawless perfect cities, however, there is a "can do" mentality and community cooperation/spirit in Houston that escapes St. Louis. It's refreshing and it's something I wish for St. Louis.

Moorlander wrote:^ Any thoughts on whyhow Opus came to this determination that St. Louis residents are less excepting of "progressive" architecture? Obviously, this is the feedback they are recieving from their market research, but why???? In the CWE of all places I would think folks would be open to just about anything.



thoughts?

I've only been here a relatively short time (1 1/2 years), but I notice this constantly.



From my limited experience, it's not just that St. Louis residents are less excepting of progressive architecture; often people actively and vocally detest it. And this includes people on these very boards, people trained in the design field, etc. (Of course that's the same as most places.)



As far as new(ish) buildings go, the most progressive building in town is easily Tadao Ando's Pulitzer. And how many people like it? ... Or even understand it? I'd bet not many.



I'm afraid Opus is spot on. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I honestly don't see more than a handful of (recent) progressive buildings... Of course there's still a lot of great design out there, I'm just not sure how much is truly progressive.

^ Absolutely... terrific work that certainly qualifies as progressive. I really hope that some of their fantastic work gets built. (Has any?) For anyone who isn't familiar with their work, here's the firm's website:



http://www.axi-ome.net/

DeBaliviere wrote:The media arcade looks cool. Any chance that it will actually become a reality?

A couple months ago I saw some renderings of a project in Grand Center that's a collaboration between axi-ome and the Lawrence Group... not sure if they're the same project or not. It looked similar to the Media Arcade although it definitely had differences. Don't know what the status is of said collaborative project, but if something gets built that even halfway resembles the renderings then it will arguably be the coolest building in town.



Anyone know anything about this? Or better yet have the renderings to share?