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PostJun 07, 2022#4251

_nomad_ wrote: ↑
Jun 07, 2022
shadrach wrote: ↑
Jun 07, 2022
I'll weigh in----I was a guest at the hotel association board meeting about six weeks ago and this topic discussed in-depth. They were frustrated with lack of policing, need for earlier curfew, looked into geo-fencing (doable but extremely challenging and imprecise, IIRC Nashville(?) tried to go this route. This is not a STL only problem), looked at shutting down scooters at 7:00pm (another challenge), police tracking offenders though GPS/credit card/CCTV (SLPD stretched too thin). They did NOT want to remove scooters as hotel guests and downtown workers enjoy them. 

However—At BPV, (maybe other hotels?) they've had gangs speeding through the lobby and other interior parts of the building. Very dangerous, but with training and vigilance, were able to (mostly) shut that down. Also, swarms would go through the garages, checking cars for valuables. On the scooters, a half-dozen riders could canvass the East and West garages in minutes. Car break-ins have soared since the scooters. (don't ask about 'stats,' relying a discussion). The easy access to garages was the real problem that couldn't be solved with costly renovation or hired security. I had no idea it was this bad. Seems like everyone—hotels, residents, businesses—were at wits end trying to not go nuclear. The resolution was to keep the scooters and, pun intended, so how long could ride it out.

Regarding 'haters' never riding them, I can say the hotels did NOT want to remove the scooters but I think they felt the had no choice. As bad as it is, I'm sure they're like no scooters is better than this. It's sad.
I would kind of like to see them to start requiring the extra renovations and security for garages and parking lots, separate from the crime issue maybe it would provide an incentive for the owners of these properties to find a higher and better use for their lots if it wasn't so easy to turn a steady profit parking cars
The Kiener garages now require your ticket to enter the garage through the doors. But that doesn't stop the scooter kids zooming in/out through the vehicle entrances and exits.

Looks like the only option would be to have full roll down/roll up gates like the one AT&T garage between the old tower and the SLU law school.
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PostJun 07, 2022#4252

Can't have your car broken into downtown if you don't have your car downtown.
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PostJun 08, 2022#4253

Ebsy wrote: ↑
Jun 07, 2022
Can't have your car broken into downtown if you don't have your car downtown.
I know what you’re trying to say here but… monkey’s paw outcome would be that people just stop coming to downtown or go less often.
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PostJun 08, 2022#4254

My garage requires card access and the car lanes have a rolling cage door. I think most residential garages are secure like that
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PostJun 08, 2022#4255

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Jun 08, 2022
My garage requires card access and the car lanes have a rolling cage door.  I think most residential garages are secure like that
When I lived downtown mine was a metal door that came down. Couldn’t get inside without. A keycard or opener.

Only drawback was it looked like a loading dock for a restaurant so people parked in front of it at night all the time even though it said they would get towed. So that was fun to deal with at times….
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PostJun 08, 2022#4256

Downtown business owner complains about more bars being allowed in downtown ....."in this past two months we had a guy down here shoot up a half dozen buildings, we have vandalism, we have fights in the street late at night.".....downtown st.Charles that is

https://www.audacy.com/kmox/news/local/ ... toric-main
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PostJun 08, 2022#4257

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 07, 2022
shadrach wrote: ↑
Jun 07, 2022
I'll weigh in----I was a guest at the hotel association board meeting about six weeks ago and this topic discussed in-depth. They were frustrated with lack of policing, need for earlier curfew, looked into geo-fencing (doable but extremely challenging and imprecise, IIRC Nashville(?) tried to go this route. This is not a STL only problem), looked at shutting down scooters at 7:00pm (another challenge), police tracking offenders though GPS/credit card/CCTV (SLPD stretched too thin). They did NOT want to remove scooters as hotel guests and downtown workers enjoy them. 

However—At BPV, (maybe other hotels?) they've had gangs speeding through the lobby and other interior parts of the building. Very dangerous, but with training and vigilance, were able to (mostly) shut that down. Also, swarms would go through the garages, checking cars for valuables. On the scooters, a half-dozen riders could canvass the East and West garages in minutes. Car break-ins have soared since the scooters. (don't ask about 'stats,' relying a discussion). The easy access to garages was the real problem that couldn't be solved with costly renovation or hired security. I had no idea it was this bad. Seems like everyone—hotels, residents, businesses—were at wits end trying to not go nuclear. The resolution was to keep the scooters and, pun intended, so how long could ride it out.

Regarding 'haters' never riding them, I can say the hotels did NOT want to remove the scooters but I think they felt the had no choice. As bad as it is, I'm sure they're like no scooters is better than this. It's sad.
I've seen them roaring through the Kiener Garages on game days and at first thought they were just messing around on the ramps for more speed: didn't think about the break in angle.
I saw the same thing happen last week on a non-game day.  Probably at least 10 kids.
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PostJun 08, 2022#4258

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Jun 08, 2022
Downtown business owner complains about more bars being allowed in downtown ....."in this past two months we had a guy down here shoot up a half dozen buildings, we have vandalism, we have fights in the street late at night.".....downtown st.Charles that is

https://www.audacy.com/kmox/news/local/ ... toric-main
Well, that's it. They better stop construction at Streets of St. Charles--no one will want to pay $1200 + a month to live so close to such lawlessness! 
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PostJun 11, 2022#4259

Apologies if this has already been talked about, but I’m new here. Just tried to ride my bike along the riverfront past the arch and towards the McKinley Bridge. Why are all the flood walls closed/streets closed to cars? Every street on the landing seemed to have a gate as well. Couldn’t even make it past the Ashley Energy plant because it seemed closed off after that. Are there any plans to improve this area? It’s a bit deflating biking past the majestic Arch and then just having horrible infrastructure around it


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PostJun 11, 2022#4260

^The Ashley play problem has been ongoing for years. The plant's feedwater flooded and fouled the boilers, if I recall correctly. There's some kind of ongoing dispute with the city and they've set up temporary steam generators (read boilers) outside the building. And every cyclist in town has been sore about the closure ever since. Other blockages are related to past flooding. (To be completely fair, I'm not sure what the river levels are now. Like most of the rest of the city I accidentally turned my back on the great brown god, so I'm unsure what he's up to, but he always lets us know sooner or later. When he rages. And then we remember. Pardon the Elliot paraphrase.)

In an ideal world it's not supposed to be like that, but it's probably been roughed up for five years or more now.  It's a known problem, but who you talk to to get it fixed is beyond me. Sorry you found out the hard way.
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PostJun 11, 2022#4261

^ the external system that set in the blue area has been gone for about a year, there is a fence still there but the gate has been open also for about a year now
BFEBBBF8-A0BB-4771-9BAC-F35340296E7D.jpeg (971.85KiB)
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PostJun 11, 2022#4262

I don't think the gate is open all the time. Maybe business hours or something. I've definitely been stopped by it recently.

The floodwall is not related to river levels any more, just permanently closed.

I hope they don't do another concert series down there as they did last summer, creating another blockade of that route.

We spent a lot of money on that trail connecting the arch to the Riverfront Trail, but it's definitely been closed the majority of the time since it was built.

Alders fought against the homeless encampment down there but apparently DGAF if anybody else can ever use the trail
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PostJun 12, 2022#4263

^I can't believe it's truly permanently closed. I expect it's just a matter of not enough people making enough noise about opening it. Or maybe leaving it closed temporarily as a measure to combat the illegal street racing that's been plaguing us all until a better measure comes to light. Even if it's necessary to close the street permanently, maybe we could at least create some kind of pedestrian/bicycle pass through.

^^Glad to know the generators are at least out of the street.
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PostJun 12, 2022#4264

Too much street racing and too many large crowds shooting guns results in closed/blocked streets.
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PostJun 12, 2022#4265

Thanks for the responses. I guess it isn’t news to anyone that the riverfront needs to be improved. It just felt forgotten about when I was riding around there. It also seems much more industrial than other cities waterfronts. The bones are definitely there for it to be great, but it definitely needs some love…which I suppose is true of St. Louis as a whole.


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PostJun 12, 2022#4266

I don't think the floodwall is related to the cruising. There are already jersey barriers just north of the closed floodwall. I assume it's just standard city laziness and decay of the built environment.
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PostJun 14, 2022#4267

With scooters gone, St. Louis police say weekend was relatively calm downtown.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 0912c.html
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PostJun 14, 2022#4268

^Good! Whether the two are related or not, I'm glad things have been quieter. And heck, I hope they really are related and this really helps. Fairly easy fix if that's really what did it. And pretty painless.
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PostJun 14, 2022#4269

There is no correlation whatsoever. It's idiotic to think there is. These teens drive downtown, they park on Market along City Garden and Peabody and then go dick around

It's time to bring the scooters back with common sense safety features in place like 10mph speed limit in downtown, no docking on Washington Ave and facial recognition ID verification
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PostJun 14, 2022#4270

^ If anything, the heat wave going on right now will keep people inside and that will lower crime dramatically. 
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PostJun 14, 2022#4271

^I always thought violent crime spiked during hot weather.  Seems people are significantly more irritable and prone to rash behavior. 
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PostJun 14, 2022#4272

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/a ... crime-wave

There's a few articles that say things similar:
"Statistical studies have confirmed that violent crimes increase in hot weather – though if the weather gets too hot the rate falls off. Researchers in Korea found a direct association between temperature and assault, while in Finland violent crime appears to rise by about 2% per degree temperature increase. In Chicago, an analysis of 5m police reports since 2001 shows a steady increase of crime rate with temperatures up to 32C, but falling off after that."

Obviously there's not a ton of good data on this, but it seems like crime increases as the temperature warms in the spring and summer, but then there seems to be a tipping point at temps north of 90 degrees... which I'm assuming that pushes people inside, reduces person to person interactions, etc... just makes sense there is less opportunity for 'person crime' to happen... 
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PostJun 14, 2022#4273

One weekend does not a trend make. Outlawing scooters is just dumb, if you ask me.
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PostJun 14, 2022#4274

Tim wrote: ↑
Jun 14, 2022
One weekend does not a trend make. Outlawing scooters is just dumb, if you ask me.
the 200 weekends since the scooters and nothing happening are a fluke a to these people but 1 week is IT! 
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PostJun 15, 2022#4275

^You're probably right. It doesn't really make a lot of sense for there to be much if any connection. But I live in hope. And I think the scooters are kind of silly looking, so I'm more willing to throw them under the bus.

All that said, I'm sure you're right. Just let me have a moment of fantasy. ;-)
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