Holy moly, ain't that the truth.Ebsy wrote:I think it is important to keep in mind that while it could have happened anywhere, it did happen here for very identifiable reasons, and though various combinations of similar reasons exist elsewhere, a lot of what has happened since the shooting has had a St. Louis signature.
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I would have loved for those 150-200 Centene jobs going downtown or in Northside area however you can't beat ferguson right now but i truly hope these companies don't rule out the city as it's in desperate need of good quality jobs & most of the people in Ferguson left north city for the very reasoning Jobs bad education crime ..
Yep. I think it's great they're going to Ferguson. But if this is a quick response to a crisis and not a change in mindset, the value of this decision is limited.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I would have loved for those 150-200 Centene jobs going downtown or in Northside area however you can't beat ferguson right now but i truly hope these companies don't rule out the city as it's in desperate need of good quality jobs & most of the people in Ferguson left north city for the very reasoning Jobs bad education crime ..
We need our entire business community to start feeling a civic responsibility overall. That means bringing jobs to the core of the region (downtown) which leads to a healthy overall region. That means bringing more jobs to underserved areas like Ferguson and North County, but also North City.
The Centene move is nice, but I'm not holding my breathe on this being an actual change in mindset from the St. Louis business community.
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I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
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^Oh my thats a list right there. Abandon thread
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I vote for Urban Chestnut.
I vote for Urban Chestnut.
1. Definitely not.
2. No. We are not in their league but at the same time we got lots to be proud of and more potential than maybe any other city in the country. Band analogy: Chicago is U2, they're gonna fill stadiums. We're that hit-and-miss rough-around-the-edges band playing average ok venues, sometimes we put on a show that could be the best show of your life, other times we show up late, drunk and without our drummer.
3. Dunno. Don't really visit KC with any regularity.
4. As great as the potential is, its honestly embarrassing sometimes.
5. Hate? No. Tired? Yes. We're so much more. No diss against the team. I'll watch some post season.
6. I don't
7. Urban Chestnut STLIPA draft
2. No. We are not in their league but at the same time we got lots to be proud of and more potential than maybe any other city in the country. Band analogy: Chicago is U2, they're gonna fill stadiums. We're that hit-and-miss rough-around-the-edges band playing average ok venues, sometimes we put on a show that could be the best show of your life, other times we show up late, drunk and without our drummer.
3. Dunno. Don't really visit KC with any regularity.
4. As great as the potential is, its honestly embarrassing sometimes.
5. Hate? No. Tired? Yes. We're so much more. No diss against the team. I'll watch some post season.
6. I don't
7. Urban Chestnut STLIPA draft
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1. LOL, what? Our main skyline is a little underwhelming for a city of our size, but (a) the Arch is a sight to behold in itself, and (b) we have Clayton and the Central Corridor.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
2. I think St. Louis could definitely stand to be more like Chicago
3. Never been, so no idea
4. No. The visitors I take to the Arch, City Garden, and Wash Ave. are consistently delighted.
5. Yes, but baseball annoys me period
6. I've never heard any direct anti-KC sentiment, but I think there's definitely an unspoken superiority complex going on
7. I've been a little obsessed with the 4 Hands Single Speed for a little while now
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TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
1-6 are all NO
7.four hands, Schlafly, UCBC, 2nd Shift
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TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
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Excellent gif usagedbInSouthCity wrote:TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
1. Photoshop out the Arch and definitely yes. How is it we have three 550+ ft buildings that have the proportions of ones that are 25 stories tall? It's deceptive how tall those 'stubby' building are.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
2. No and yes.
3. Don't know but would't be surprised.
4. A handful of gems in a barrel of grout
5. No, but looking for the Rams/Blues to shore up the flanks and make STL teams feared across the leagues.
6. No, but I've known 3 people from KC who take bitter, cheap-shots at STL whenever they can. But there is sibling rivalry/enmity and it's bad. LA, SF and SD all make California great. KC and STL are two great cities Missouri should be proud of. Being border cities I think pulls us in opposite directions than together.
7. I miss the ABC/The Stable's Märzen
Oh great: St. Louis is "Kings of Leon".terence d wrote:2. No. We are not in their league but at the same time we got lots to be proud of and more potential than maybe any other city in the country. Band analogy: Chicago is U2, they're gonna fill stadiums. We're that hit-and-miss rough-around-the-edges band playing average ok venues, sometimes we put on a show that could be the best show of your life, other times we show up late, drunk and without our drummer.
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1) No. Plenty of cities with worse skylines. But ours should be better. Arch or no arch.I just would like to get everyone's honest opinion on St.Louis in General with several questions.
1. Does St.Louis have the worse skyline in all of America?
2. Does St.Louis really stride to be like Chicago & every local person here is jealous of Chicago?
3. Is Kansas Cities Upscale foodie/cuisine much better than St.Louis?
4. Is Downtown the worse tourist part of St.Louis ?
5. Are any of you tired of the Cardinals making it to the playoffs to the point where you hate them ?
6. Does St.Louis tend to look down on folks from Kansas City ?
7. Since Budweiser pretty much isn't much of a St.Louis tradition anymore which craft beer do you know prefer in St.Louis?
I'm just curious
Thanks
2) No. I don't know that I would want St. Louis to be like Chicago. I tend to think it should be more like Boston. Then again i don't like that either. Mostly I just think St. Louis needs to strive to be a much better St. Louis. Height fetishes are IMHO a distraction. Revitalizing the city is really about activity at the street level. If no new building was ever built to exceed the height of the Arch I don't think it would be all that bad. But downtown desperately needs more density and better connectivity to the region.
3) Can't say for sure as I am only somewhat familiar with KCs food scene but if it is it's not significantly so. Does St. Louis have plenty of amazing food options? Yes.
4) Not even close. It could be better of course, but outside Forest Park there is no better place for a tourist to be. The Arch, City Museum, Cardinals, Blues, Rams, Union Station, Peabody Opera House, Lumiere. (unless you are hung up on the Downtown/Downtown West distinction). Not to mention close proximity to Grand Center and Soulard which have their own attractions.
5) Um maybe when they surpass the Yankees with the most World Series, I might feel bad for everyone else. Til then GO CARDS!
6) That'd be stupid. People aren't where they live. Looking down on anyone because of where they live is childish and stupid. Do I think St. Louis is a better city overall (considering in total our history, culture, attractions, and enviroment)? Yes. Do I see KC nipping at our heels trying to surpass STL as the premiere city in the state? Yes. Its very possible they will someday, but if they do its in large part our own collective fault. Pride in your city is not the same as "looking down on other people".
7) Schlafly Pale Ale most days but I think STL should have pride in ALL their breweries including AB.
Your questions phrased seem pretty loaded against STL. A lot of them seem like someone who takes for granted all the amazing things STL has to offer. Thats a little sad to me.
I'll only answer the questions that really irritate me.
1. The St. Louis skyline is awesome. It features one of the most iconic structures in the entire country. In my experience the only people who pan it are skyscraper nerds with an undersized hard-on for height, self-hating St. Louisans who wish they were from somewhere cooler, and rabid boosters from other cities who sh*t on everywhere that's not their hometown (especially if it's a mid-sized midwest metro.) Show ten random Americans pictures of the St. Louis and KC skylines and nine of them will probably know St. Louis while you'll be lucky if one recognizes KC. Even compared to god-like city of Chicago, the St. Louis skyline holds it own. I take my kids to downtown Chicago quite a bit and I've never heard them say anything about the skyline, but every time we drive into St. Louis they start losing their sh*t over the "big Arch."
2. Chicago sucks. Okay it doesn't really suck. I actually kind of like it. However, as big American cities go, it is not on the same level as New York, San Francisco, Boston, or Philly. Chicago lacks the charm and history of those places, has terrible weather, and has a flat and uninteresting landscape. Plus, with horrible traffic and a sprawling geographic footprint, it lacks the livability that makes smaller metros like St. Louis great.
7. Michelob
1. The St. Louis skyline is awesome. It features one of the most iconic structures in the entire country. In my experience the only people who pan it are skyscraper nerds with an undersized hard-on for height, self-hating St. Louisans who wish they were from somewhere cooler, and rabid boosters from other cities who sh*t on everywhere that's not their hometown (especially if it's a mid-sized midwest metro.) Show ten random Americans pictures of the St. Louis and KC skylines and nine of them will probably know St. Louis while you'll be lucky if one recognizes KC. Even compared to god-like city of Chicago, the St. Louis skyline holds it own. I take my kids to downtown Chicago quite a bit and I've never heard them say anything about the skyline, but every time we drive into St. Louis they start losing their sh*t over the "big Arch."
2. Chicago sucks. Okay it doesn't really suck. I actually kind of like it. However, as big American cities go, it is not on the same level as New York, San Francisco, Boston, or Philly. Chicago lacks the charm and history of those places, has terrible weather, and has a flat and uninteresting landscape. Plus, with horrible traffic and a sprawling geographic footprint, it lacks the livability that makes smaller metros like St. Louis great.
7. Michelob
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The problem I have with our skyline is that we haven't taken advantage of one of the world's iconic urban landscapes nearly as well as we should. A boulevard could have helped. But oh well!
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Right on. If I have any qualms with our skyline, it's that we have some gaps that I'd love to see filled at the northern and southern edges. Our skyline actually looks better/denser when viewed from the north or south than from the east.roger wyoming II wrote:The problem I have with our skyline is that we haven't taken advantage of one of the world's iconic urban landscapes nearly as well as we should. A boulevard could have helped. But oh well!
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debaliviere wrote:Right on. If I have any qualms with our skyline, it's that we have some gaps that I'd love to see filled at the northern and southern edges. Our skyline actually looks better/denser when viewed from the north or south than from the east.roger wyoming II wrote:The problem I have with our skyline is that we haven't taken advantage of one of the world's iconic urban landscapes nearly as well as we should. A boulevard could have helped. But oh well!
Good point, almost all pictures of the skyline are viewed from the east which tends to not show the taller buildings going west from downtown all the way to Clayton. Thinking about it, how many other cities tend to have a corridor similar to that where taller buildings are not all in one area? One example I can think of is Atlanta which has a N/S axis going from downtown north through midtown and up to Buckhead area.
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Yeah, we have a rather skinny CBD corridor but Drury and BPV towers would help stretch out the edges a bit. Also, a few mid-rise apartment projects north of MLK Bridge in LL would be nice.debaliviere wrote:Right on. If I have any qualms with our skyline, it's that we have some gaps that I'd love to see filled at the northern and southern edges. Our skyline actually looks better/denser when viewed from the north or south than from the east.roger wyoming II wrote:The problem I have with our skyline is that we haven't taken advantage of one of the world's iconic urban landscapes nearly as well as we should. A boulevard could have helped. But oh well!
I feel like if anything remotely resembling the original Bottle District plans had been built, our skyline would be drastically different in scope and character in a few key areas. If something that modern and edgy would have made it and thrived, I think regional and national developers would have been more prone to take some risks at many of the vacant plots we have in and in close proximity to downtown. Every time I lay eyes on the Libeskind building in northern KY woven into Cincinnati's skyline I think about what could have been.
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The Downtown Partnership came out with its 2014 State of Downtown Report recently. (It can be viewed at http://www.downtownstl.org and going to the News section.)
It does its best to make the case that things are awesome but it frankly leaves me with the blahs. Part of that is due to its honesty in separating out the "Downtown Core" (comprised of Downtown and Downtown West) and "Greater Downtown"... so where previously it was saying that downtown was adding around 500 people annually in recent years and had a population of over 13,000, now we see that we're really adding only around 350 and have a population of around 8,000. I was hoping that we could accelerate up to more like 750-1000 new residents in the coming years but that looks like an even tougher struggle to get to from where we are now.
At the current rate, we'll be at around 10,000 people downtown by the end of the decade... it is progress but I'm not sure its enough to really be a truly vibrant downtown and bring significantly more retail, especially when the office job situation is so blah.
It does its best to make the case that things are awesome but it frankly leaves me with the blahs. Part of that is due to its honesty in separating out the "Downtown Core" (comprised of Downtown and Downtown West) and "Greater Downtown"... so where previously it was saying that downtown was adding around 500 people annually in recent years and had a population of over 13,000, now we see that we're really adding only around 350 and have a population of around 8,000. I was hoping that we could accelerate up to more like 750-1000 new residents in the coming years but that looks like an even tougher struggle to get to from where we are now.
At the current rate, we'll be at around 10,000 people downtown by the end of the decade... it is progress but I'm not sure its enough to really be a truly vibrant downtown and bring significantly more retail, especially when the office job situation is so blah.
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Can you image our downtown if even half of the following chose downtown instead of expanding in the county?
Scottrade, Edward Jones, Centene, Express Scripts, WWT and RGA?
Scottrade, Edward Jones, Centene, Express Scripts, WWT and RGA?
roger wyoming II wrote:The Downtown Partnership came out with its 2014 State of Downtown Report recently. (It can be viewed at http://www.downtownstl.org and going to the News section.)
It does its best to make the case that things are awesome but it frankly leaves me with the blahs.
