The St. Louis Regional Freightway

ldai_phs · PostApr 21, 2021#2262021-04-21T05:01+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote:^The comments are interesting. It makes sense that DoC and STB would be less likely to give a CN/KCS merger their blessing, but the earlier conversation about KCS having gotten some kind of free pass agreement during the last round of mergers makes me wonder if the feds tied their own hands somehow. (I'm not at all familiar with it. Just recalling the conversation, but not immediately finding it here.) I can definitely see where this could force CP to sweeten their deal a bit just to keep it in place. (I would much rather see a CP/KCS deal than a CN/KCS deal for the reasons mentioned in the comments.)

It is my understanding that KCS had a regulatory “pass” due to its size. CN’s massive size is thought to potentially over ride this.

The COO of CN is from the KC area and previously worked at BNSF. He was at BNSF when KC Logistics Park was built. Very familiar with the area and it’s recent logistics build up.

dredger · PostApr 22, 2021#2272021-04-22T19:01+00:00

^ The dynamics of KCS merging with CP or CN is getting pretty complicated none the less. From a railroad perspective, regulatory and from simply looking at the map you wonder how CP and KCS didn't combine moons ago. Heck, a few comments and support I have read based on the fact that you truly get two seamless competing north south corridors for the Gulf petro industry & crude by rail with CP/KCS merger on one hand and the existing CN network with its previous buy of Illinois Central many moons ago on the other hand. Shippers have to see CP/KCS as a plus. From a money perspective? CN came to the table with a much better offer for Wall Street to cash in. I think most people would take the $1500 offer on their used car instead of the $1250 offer from the neighbor or even the relative. At the end of day, it could be CN forcing CP to pay more and then put them on weaker footing for the competing Gulf petro business and or sand oil unit trains going south.

On different note and thought. CP/KCS becomes the NAFTA railroad. However, a east west merger of the four largest Class I's also create two huge NAFTA railroads as well with BNSF, UP, CSX and NS having various exisiting Mexican and Canadian connections, more so west of Mississippi. That leaves CN as odd man out down the tracks to speak. I wonder if that is a big part of the reason for the substantially bigger offer to KCS? Essentially pay a premium for KCS Mexican network and ensuing regulatory fight now versus a much steeper price to gain more indirect access at best or even simply be stuck with their limited access they have. Believe CN has a car float operation out of Port of Alabama in Mobile with service to southern Mexico..

symphonicpoet · PostApr 23, 2021#2282021-04-23T06:03+00:00

Twenty years ago there was a joke that BNSF stood for Buy Norfolk Southern Fast. (It also meant Big New Santa Fe, but that's a different story. We won't discus what Uncle Peter means.) I've been shocked that the mergers died down for fully ten years. Maybe fifteen. I expected that east west merger to happen fast after BN+AT&SF/UP+SP/CSX+CR-NYC+NS. In the late 90s it seemed inevitable that we'd end up with four class ones in short order. Or maybe even just three. There's just too much geographic sense to the big boys merging across the Mississippi or past the bumper stops in Chicago Union. Can't say as it makes my childlike railfan happy. (Still morning the loss of railroads that disappeared before I was born.) But it does eventually seem inevitable. Short of government intervention, anyway. After all, rail barons have been trying to pull it off for . . . oh . . . a hundred odd years now. A hundred fifty, really. (Almost managed it under J. P. Morgan and Jay Gould.)

dredger · PostMay 13, 2021#2292021-05-13T21:06+00:00

Port of New Orleans put out RFP to get ball rolling on new container terminal that would accomodate the largest container ships currently serving US market. In addition, most of the deep draft ship channel has been deepened from Gulf to St. Bernard Parish to accomodate such vessels. Not directly related to St. Louis region but this type investment will only secure and help develop an inland waterway container route on Mississippi

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/ ... tor--63468

What I don't know or if possible with the current large dockside cranes being built is if they would be able to facilitate a direct vessel to vessel transfer of boxes. In other words, the deep draft containership secures dockside and when the crane picks container to bring box dockside it simply extends box further out & transfers directly onto inland vessel secured on other side of container ship. I think would bring more efficiency and less handling (time and money).

ldai_phs · PostMay 13, 2021#2302021-05-13T21:24+00:00

Port of New Orleans isn’t connected to the American Patriot Holdings. Infact, I remember sitting in an APH presentation where they discussed why the current port could never work with what they want to do.

I will be interested to see if the Port of Plaquemines grows outside of APH.

symphonicpoet · PostMay 14, 2021#2312021-05-14T06:05+00:00

So it would seem the river is closed to traffic because of the bridge in Memphis. I confess, I was a little surprised by that. The predictions in the popular press are pretty nasty. I'm curious if those in the industry have better estimates, because "months" sounds like it could get frighteningly close to the harvest. (How long does it take to reposition everything upriver to load it in the fall?)

sc4mayor · PostMay 14, 2021#2322021-05-14T06:12+00:00

I only know what I've read in the papers but I was under the impression that the bridge may be closed for months because it will need to be repaired before it can be opened again. But river traffic could resume as soon as they know for sure the bridge isn't in immediate danger of failure. Presumably that would be shorter than months. Hopefully. But I could be wrong.

symphonicpoet · PostMay 14, 2021#2332021-05-14T07:10+00:00

^I'm hoping that's all it is. Different stories doubtless present it differently. I read the darned thing on my phone off the MS news feed, which can be surprisingly ephemeral. I can no longer find it. Just double checking to make sure the bridge won't fall on anyone makes sense.

In other news, Bloomberg reports that KCS plans to accept CN's offer. CP is apparently planning a counter offer, but won't get into a bidding war. And the STB apparently hasn't said how it would judge the CN offer. (They did state that the CP offer would be judged under more forgiving standards.)

rbb · PostMay 14, 2021#2342021-05-14T12:56+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑
May 14, 2021
^I'm hoping that's all it is. Different stories doubtless present it differently. I read the darned thing on my phone off the MS news feed, which can be surprisingly ephemeral. I can no longer find it. Just double checking to make sure the bridge won't fall on anyone makes sense.

Here you go. And yeah, this is a bit worse than a 'crack':

Cracked Memphis bridge may reopen soon but highlights supply chain vulnerabilities

The Hernando de Soto Bridge, a vital Midwest shipping route that connects Arkansas and Tennessee, has been shut down to thousands of vehicles and barges. Engineers are working on a fix for the 48-year-old bridge but are unsure how drastic the repair effort will be, said Paul Degges, chief engineer for the Tennessee Department of Transportation.

“I'm hopeful in the next day or so we'll be able to be in a position where we can talk to the Coast Guard and say, ‘Hey, we think the bridge is OK. It's got an adequate factor of safety,’ and we can open the river back up to barge traffic,” Degges said Thursday. “So that's, that's step one.”
But it’s too early to determine whether the repairs will take six weeks or six months, he said.

-RBB

addxb2 · PostMay 14, 2021#2352021-05-14T14:09+00:00

Always a great reminder of the value of boring maintenance work. Thankful STL has orgs and leaders who keep our river bridges fresh.

dredger · PostMay 14, 2021#2362021-05-14T16:54+00:00

Barge traffic resumes as CNN reporting that USCG has lifted restrictions

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/us/memph ... index.html

(CNN)The US Coast Guard said Friday that transit on the Mississippi River waterway under Interstate 40 bridge in Memphis has reopened after a crack forced the closure of the vital highway bridge.

Earlier Friday, the Coast Guard said more than 60 vessels with over 1,000 barges had been held up on the river.

symphonicpoet · PostMay 15, 2021#2372021-05-15T05:32+00:00

^That's good news at least. I'm sure Memphis will be suffering highway headaches for a while. (Things get bad enough here when bridges get shut down and we have a lot more redundancy in our system.) But I am incredibly glad the river traffic is flowing again.

PostMay 19, 2021#2382021-05-19T05:50+00:00

Getting back to the KCS merger talks, it seems the STB is already throwing modest procedural roadblocks at CN.

Trains: Federal regulators deal blow to CN-KCS deal, raise concerns about merger (2nd update)

The short version: The STB told CN they can't create a voting trust yet because they haven't filed a merger application. This sounds, on the face of it, like a minor procedural issue. The CN merger would be the first merger under the new rules, and as such it's unknown how long KCS stockholders would have their assets essentially tied up in court unable to do anything with them. By contrast the CP merger would go forward under the old rules, so there would be a shorter time frame and much more certainty. CP seems to take this as a good sign. KCS did not comment for the Trains article. The CN merger may yet win the day, but this truly looks to be uncharted territory. “Never before has a merger and the voting trust been so linked. The new rules and lack of precedent is very obvious,” says Anthony B. Hatch, an independent analyst specializing in transportation concerns. (He goes on to say he expects that the STB would approve the deal, but he doesn't know how that will affect the KCS vote.)

Interesting times.

pdm_ad · PostMay 21, 2021#2392021-05-21T14:30+00:00

gone corporate wrote: ↑
Feb 22, 2021
FWIW APH's planning for their CoV ships to use LNG for fuel.

GC, hearing anything new on this one? What would be a potential timeline, if there is one? Thanks for the info on this, really hoping this pans out.

dredger · PostMay 21, 2021#2402021-05-21T18:47+00:00

Money talks, KCS breaks from CP offer and going for more money on CN's $33 billion offer. How it plays out with STB will be interesting as CP held their offer steady at $29 billion and doesn't think merger get past regulator approval from everything that i have read. I still don't think it is much different as far as Stl goes but thought KCS-CP merger would have a good outcome for KC in the long the run. With CN, everything north or south will go via Chicago and from their a couple alternatives between KCS and old IL Central route to markets.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... r-partner/

I should have added the other article that also fascinates me to the possibility of CP becoming an acquisition target if CN & KCS merger is successful. Can see where NS & CSX might see the benefit of going after CP as true transcontinental and getting direct access to Canadian markets as well as Northern Plains & Pacific Northwest. Or UP which would give them Norther Plains access & better Canadian Port access.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... reel-says/

gone corporate · PostMay 21, 2021#2412021-05-21T19:16+00:00

pdm_ad: I just did some hunting, and I see some pretty big non-STL APH updates that will impact CoV coming to STL…

This news involves Plaquemines Port Harbor and Terminal District (PPHTD) in Louisiana. Located 50 miles up the Mississippi River from the Gulf of Mexico, it is to be the receiving port for both APH’s CoV vessels and ocean-bearing cargo vessels whose containers will be transferred to APH’s river freighters.

Press Release from PPHTD: Plaquemines Port and APM Terminals Announce Future Port

APM Terminals and PPHTD will work together to design the fully-built port terminal. Subsequently, these two entities will consider investments from APM potentially being made into the port district as it's fully built out / retrofit over about two years.

My thoughts are that, by being the entity chosen by Plaquemines Port to help them design the total build-out of PPHTD, APM Terminals is now the clear front-runner to be chosen to operate the port district for the long term. In time, this will likely also lead to partnerships between all parties involved in work at PPHTD.

This is a schematic of what the future fully-developed PPHTD could look like:

PPHTD includes 1,000 acres with 8,200 feet of Mississippi River frontage. Their plans are to have this full multimodal terminal be able to receive ocean freighters with 22,000 TEU capacities, which are just about the largest size that container-ferrying ocean freighters can be made.
*TEU is a “Twenty-foot Equivalent Unit” standardized cargo container.
For scale:
-        Panamax freighters are ships with 5,000 TEU capacities.
-        Post-Panamax freighters are ships with 15,000 TEU capacities.
-        The large APH freighters that will connect Plaquemines to STL & Memphis have 2,500 capacities.

Two very important things to know about APM Terminals:
1.      APM Terminals operates 75 container terminals around the world (40 countries, 5 continents).
2. APM is an independently-operated, wholly-owned subsidiary of A.P. Moller-Maersk A/S, the largest container shipping line and vessel operator in the world.

My primary thoughts on the viability of APH delivering their vessels and bringing their network of river terminals into being was that they more than likely would need to have a partnership with a major global shipping line. Maersk has been my personal wish. With Maersk joining up with PPHTD, I can see them also partnering with APH in the relative near future. Basically, that would allow for this whole thing to really be as big as I’ve quietly let myself think it could. And quietly, I've let myself dream that this could be a very, very big deal.

symphonicpoet · PostMay 22, 2021#2422021-05-22T04:43+00:00

^Maersk would most definitely be a big deal.

pdm_ad · PostMay 22, 2021#2432021-05-22T12:36+00:00

Thanks GC, I saw that news on PPHTD and I wasn't sure if that would have an impact on the APH plan.

gone corporate · PostMay 24, 2021#2442021-05-24T20:27+00:00

Addendum, and pure speculation, but: We now see PPHTD, and by default APH, working with APM Terminals, and by default Maersk. Maybe this will lead to Maersk making a primary investment into APH to fund a full, sustained buildout of CoV freighters. Also, maybe this means APM Terminals could become highly interested in operating terminals for APH vessels in Herculaneum (STL) and Memphis. Seriously, we could have a Maersk terminal at STL. Yes, I am speculating here, but I like to think I'm also being logical. Good times.

pattimagee · PostJun 01, 2021#2452021-06-01T14:56+00:00

Pretty off topic, but I came across this guy that runs some of the boats/barges on the river. Some pretty fun videos in there:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeTPJe6o/

Specifically - here's the American Duchess at night https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeTPJe6o/

billikens_19 · PostJun 01, 2021#2462021-06-01T16:04+00:00

Ha! I literally just saw one of his videos pop up on my FYP last night. It’s crazy how tiktok works. 9 times out of 10, I’ll send someone a video and they tell me they just saw it a half hour ago.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pattimagee · PostJun 01, 2021#2472021-06-01T23:06+00:00

It really is an interesting app - a little scary when they show you videos based on what it hears...

On the other hand... the day before I was hanging a two hooked painting in my house, I saw a scotch tape hack that made it so much easier than I thought it would be.

symphonicpoet · PostJun 02, 2021#2482021-06-02T05:14+00:00

^Well, I hadn't seen him, so I'll say thank you.

I'm beginning to think it's time to get my tokas on the tikas. Thank you! He's fun.

pattimagee · PostJun 02, 2021#2492021-06-02T15:54+00:00

I've been tossed into the St. Louis Tiktok algorithm lately, so I'll share em here more often. Do we have a STL Viral/Social channel on Urban?

aprice · PostJun 02, 2021#2502021-06-02T16:46+00:00

pattimagee wrote: ↑
Jun 02, 2021
I've been tossed into the St. Louis Tiktok algorithm lately, so I'll share em here more often. Do we have a STL Viral/Social channel on Urban?

No but I wouldn't be opposed to one. There's currently a rising post in r/oddlysatifying of the Ethical Society lobby area that's referred to in the post title as a living room. It's an unfitting post for the sub, several posts say that they doubt it's a living room and looks more like a church, several posts from people saying they were married there, and then a few people tagging r/ATBGE. It's a surprising disaster of a comments section.

The St. Louis Regional Freightway

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