urbanSTL

Good, a restaurant space will be nice. Especially with outdoor seating. All these new people will be great for the retail/restaurant scene in the CWE. This is my old stomping grounds and I am very excited. I had a doctor in the Doctor's Building once. That building has always been a dump. Glad to see it go.

Looks like the CWE is picking up where it left off in 1962. (Do you see egg on the faces of all those people who thought highrise living should be in Clayton and that urbanites don't really want to live in the city? Well, now, Clayton is okay....if your a rich old lady and have to be chauffered everywhere or don't want the "problems (?)" of living in a real city. Who on earth would be stupid enough to walk to the Galleria???) I think that recent events shows where urbanites want to live...in an urban neighborhood. To me, the CWE was and is THE urban highrise neighborhood of the entire St. Louis area, as IT SHOULD BE, and likewise downtown St. Louis. With the success of recent developments, rumored plans and opinions expressed here, it looks like I have lots and lots of company. It only makes sense that some day (soon, hopefully) that Midtown will bridge the gap between downtown and the CWE, as it should.

Well, I hate to pick on "those people" again, but who really cares if their view to the Arch is ruined??? If seeing the arch is SOOOO important to them, then what in the hell are they doing living and working so far from it??????????!!!!!!

Wow!!! That is nice. I like the rendering and the height. I can't wait to read all the details. Maybe this will push Opus to go even taller with the Lindell Condos.

It's too bad the Round Building couldn't have been saved. If it had made it until today, I definitely believe it would've been rehabbed. It added a funky retro element to the CWE skyline, and it was worthy of preservation. I guess it was torn down just before the building boom began in the CWE- a little too early to give it a second chance.



RIP Round Building:







Photo courtesy of builtstlouis.net

Man, I forgot how tall that round building was.. Definitely could have been rehabbed, but instead we have OK townhouses in its spot. The building wasn't attractive really, but maybe with a new facade of glass or something.. I'm so psyched to see the new Mills rendering. I agree that the rendering isn't the most awe inspiring, I'm reluctant to be critical because it NEEDS to be built. I had friends in from Denver last week and they said that the CWE was by far the coolest area (and loop) in St. Louis. They were blown away by all the different types of architecture. I'd feel like a total tard if I bought a condo in Maryland Walk or the Plaza.. The neighborhood honestly doesn't compare, Clayton is great and all, but real urban living is in the CWE.

This new building looks great! I like the design as is. I get the feeling that some of that "bulkiness" is only a factor of the rendering perspective. In real life, it will probably look tall, not fat! I can't wait to see some more images of it.



I'm also eager to see renderings of the 4-story townhouses planned along Euclid, which were mentioned in the Business Journal article.



And yes, the Central West End really is becoming one of the finest urban neighborhoods in the country. Let's keep the momentum going!

i'm going to have to disagree with people. Granted, i'm going off of one rendering, but even off of this rendering, one can observe some basic problems.



This building looks as bland and cliched as its name (good lord, Rennaisance?). Looks like the developer realized the market was heating up, and decided to boost the number of apartments to the max so he could suck up as much of future demand as possible. Doesn't look like he wanted to pay too much in architecture fees, so he created a lame combination of the tried and true in hotel and cheap condo style (with a slap of brick to make it look "local").



Not only that, it is massive, not only in terms of height but in bulk, completely out of scale with the surrounding context and the street on which it's located. Euclid is not the kind of street that you put 25+ story behemoths (except where it intersects more dominant thoroughfares such as Lindell or Forest Park Parkway). We've gone over the reasons for that ad nauseam so i won't repeat myself. The height is silly, but the least they could do is try to minimize this is and do what the Park East tower did, which was to limit the height (which in my opinion was excessive for its location) to the tower portion and keep a 6 story base that transitioned into the surroundings. Here they basically say "nah, forget that, i want to build as many apartments as possible on this plot of land, try to make it look less massive through facade tricks". WELL, IT OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T WORK, nor was it going to. Facade tricks only go so far, they don't work miracles. Putting lipstick on a pig don't make it pretty, nor does it make it thin.



Urban density does not require 30 story buildings, we'll achieve much much more by increasing overall densities through many modestly dense developments, than a couple of high density developments. I'd much rather see three separate 10-11 story developments with the same thought and quality of a 4545 Lindell, than one massive building with all the design sophistication of a Ramada Inn. Modest dollops of greatness will contribute more to the urban space and quality of the Central West Ends than large buckets of mediocrity.



This one gets a big thumbs down.

I have to agree with you, ComandanteCero. I am all for high-density developments as long as our standards remain high. We can only hope this is the preliminary rendering and it will be fine-tuned and improved extensively.



25-30-story buildings don't bother me at all, however. If there's one thing St. Louis needs more of, it's some modern skyscrapers. That said, they should be well-designed, and not cheesy or cheap looking. I think the Park East is going to be absolutely fabulous, and I don't think it's too tall for the area it's in. The CWE is all about mixing it up- I think it'll be a great magnet for activity for that intersection. Let's hope The Renaissance (stupid name) shapes up to something we can be proud of.

ComandanteCero, I must admit, you make good points. I am not ready to give it the thumbs down, but I would like a different name. The Renaissance sounds like a 1980s cry for help.



I am interested in seeing & hearing more on the Euclid townhouses. This is the first I have heard about them.

The massing and scale is appealing to me. I have no problem with height or bulk, especially in the CWE. The design I generally like, but the details are not easilly made out from the quality of the scan from the paper. I can't give my judgements on the details yet, but hopefully we'll get some renderings on the internet soon. The size though, I have absolutely no problem with.

CommandanteCero makes a few good points. What I don't understand is your problem with the height. The CWE used to be mostly single family homes. Where the Chase stands today a mansion once stood. Arguing to not allow the 30 story building is the same argument that someone could have made against allowing the Park Plaza (later joined with the Chase) to have been built. I can understand being against allowing the entire CWE to be 30 story highrises, but this one makes sense. I agree that the architecture could be a little more inspiring, but then again these developers need to make money off these projects, it isn't soley a public/ good will/ gesture for the city. I don't think it looks worse than ANY of the towers along Hanley, Dorchester, the Clayton on the Park (Conrads), the Frontenac and Montclair, the building across from the Hawthorne on West Pine I forget it's name. So, what this building replaces and brings to the area far outweighs it's "bulkiness". Again, if you're against this, none of the towers should have been allowed on Lindell in the 1920's.

I disagree, I like the look and bulk and height of this building. To say that 30 stories is too high is a bit strange. Ehat is the difference between the 26 story Park East, The humongous Chase, and the new Opus 25+ highrise? With all the new highrises going up in the city... it is only a good thing if you ask me.

I, for one, am not going to poo poo on any major development, much less a large residential high rise, in the city.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... tory1.html



The article is online.



I'd like to see a detailed PDF of this project before I continue to really criticize it. I just think the building isn't done well. The design just seeems weak to me.



I think Mills saw the opening to really make some money and jumped at it. Not taking the time to develop the property nicely. I don't have a problem with the height, or even the bulk. I just don't like the design. Reading the article, the amenities are p retty nice, but the building itself just leaves something to be desired.

The amenities of the building sound great. Indoor pools are rare and something I would really enjoy. No need to move to Florida to have year round swimming. I am looking forward to better renderings. For instance, where will the townhouses be and how will they look? Or are they part of the main structure?



The article mentions a 197 unit development called <A HREF="http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=864">Villas of St. Louis</A> at 3949 Lindell. Is there a thread on here about them? First I have heard of it.



Just curious, does anyone know why there are so many post war buildings on West Pine. Why has there been so much buildable land from the Excecutive House to Forest Park on West Pine since WWII? Have they been replacing houses & flats? Was the street not built up in the first place for some reason? It has always been this way and I never thought about it until now. North of Lindell seems to be more intact than south of Lindell.

<A HREF="http://www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=864">The Villas of St. Louis</A> is the project that's supposed to be built on the site of the Salad Bowl cafeteria near Lindell and Vandeventer (the site is between the AAA office and the Arby's).



There is another potentially great building site right across the street from Mills' proposed building on West Pine - the MacArthur Memorial building. It's a pretty ugly 60's-looking 2-3 story building that is set back from the street and doesn't really fit in with its surroundings at all.

I'm surprised by the criticism of this project. I actually think it looks very urban and I like the facade. The facade is typical of today's projects in large cities (NY, Chicago) appealing to the young generation. It is slightly bulky, but honestly, the fact that this is financially feasible to build now just further bolsters the strength of the STL city market.



The CWE is truly moving along at a record pace.

Refresh my memory, what is in the neighborhood?



West Pine & Euclid:



NE Corner -Doctor's Building (for now) - what is behind the building?

SE Corner - Can't remember, a short retail building with dry cleaners?

SW Corner - Forest Park Hotel

NW Corner - Apartment Building - does anyone know the name?



My memory is getting weak, I can't recall the MacArthur building.



Metzgda is right, similar buildings are going up in many cities. It reminds me of some of the new buildings going up near Baltimore Harbor.



Walking north on Euclid from the Metro station is going to be a new experience in a couple of years. Tall & modern.

That resale shop across from the Doctors Building should definitely be a supermarket, like those found in Brooklyn. The building is perfect for it, and the neighborhood could really use it. I believe it actually was a market back in the day.

Gasm, great idea. A little market would do really well there. I can remember when that building was a drugstore. It was very convenient to pick everyday things.

Very intersting project, as Mills seems like it is trying to beat Opus to the punch and get its tower up first. Hopefuly sales go well and the area will see future development. I think the build looks great.

I have no problem with the height or design. When built, I think it's going to be a good addition to St. Louis, and the CWE neighborhood and skyline. The name doesn't bother me either. I think "Renaissance" represents exactly what is happening in St. Louis. I can only think of three projects - including this one - with the word "renaissance" in it.



Renaissance Grand - A hotel brand name developed by Marriott.

Renaissance Place @ Grand - a Midtown/North City housing development.

Renaissance on Euclid - new tower proposed by Mills Properties.



So for me, it is not too clich?d yet. What are the others?



Anyway, I dug up some old pics from my collection and other sources to give a perspective on how this tower would fit in on Euclid.