urbanSTL

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

Seemed there had been some murmurs about this for a while. Probably has more to do with Green Street than that it wasn’t making money. Lot of overhead but also a lot of margins. I thought it was a decent entertainment repurpose of the building since they did big events and pop ups. And every city seems to have a “bar playground for adults” nowadays so it had a place. I did have some qualms with it sitting on that sprawling parking lot and not building sidewalks to Grand.

This becoming an abandoned building again is worrisome because of its mass.

Issue isn’t where it was profitable. It was making money and if the build out was
$10m, some a bar that size would cost, it would be fine but they spent $55,000,000 on. Missed the deadline to get large chunk in historic tax credits, proceeded anyway and multiple tenants for the $55m fell through before they settled on a large bar

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... ncing.html

Armory STL, the massive entertainment complex in Midtown that opened less than two years ago, will "temporarily close," a principal with owner Green Street said Wednesday, as the firm seeks more financing to finish the project.
Green Street principal Phil Hulse said the developer needs an additional $7 million to $8 million to finish projects at Armory, 3660 Market St., including event spaces on its lower level and roof, which would open up more revenue opportunities at the complex.

Hulse said it was likely the firm would seek to partner with a new investor. "We've got to bring more cash to the table," Hulse said.
He said he anticipates the temporary closing will last about 30 days.

With all the tenants in those new apts in the area and possibly more at the NW corner of Vandeventer and Forest Park turn the property into a YMCA

That doesn't make the situation sound as bad or as dire as it did before. 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

Seemed there had been some murmurs about this for a while. Probably has more to do with Green Street than that it wasn’t making money. Lot of overhead but also a lot of margins. I thought it was a decent entertainment repurpose of the building since they did big events and pop ups. And every city seems to have a “bar playground for adults” nowadays so it had a place. I did have some qualms with it sitting on that sprawling parking lot and not building sidewalks to Grand.

This becoming an abandoned building again is worrisome because of its mass.

Issue isn’t where it was profitable. It was making money and if the build out was
$10m, some a bar that size would cost, it would be fine but they spent $55,000,000 on. Missed the deadline to get large chunk in historic tax credits, proceeded anyway and multiple tenants for the $55m fell through before they settled on a large bar

I figured they would be selling the property to make up for some cash they need.

Biz Journal calling it a "temporary closure". Is there evidence that it will be closed permanently. 

My concern is the security of the building and protecting it from vandals. It won't take long for those idiots to break in and cause problems. I would hope they are smart enough to have 24-7 security to protect the building. 

Official Press Release

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

Official Press Release
Armory.jpg

That sounds like a "Closed for a family emergency" sign on a restaurant.

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

Seemed there had been some murmurs about this for a while. Probably has more to do with Green Street than that it wasn’t making money. Lot of overhead but also a lot of margins. I thought it was a decent entertainment repurpose of the building since they did big events and pop ups. And every city seems to have a “bar playground for adults” nowadays so it had a place. I did have some qualms with it sitting on that sprawling parking lot and not building sidewalks to Grand.

This becoming an abandoned building again is worrisome because of its mass.

Issue isn’t where it was profitable.  It was making money and if the build out was
$10m, some a bar that size would cost, it would be fine but they spent $55,000,000 on.  Missed the deadline to get large chunk in historic tax credits, proceeded anyway and multiple tenants for the $55m fell through before they settled on a large bar

are you saying there was no oversight?

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Sep 25, 2024

Official Press Release
Armory.jpg

this is the worst press release I have ever seen.  maybe they shouldnt have fired their internal marketing/press person 

Odds that this doesn't reopen under Green Street's ownership?

Them saying that they, "just need $8 million and then they'll be fine" sounds like a joke coming from a company with multiple unpaid debts. Who do they think is going to loan them $8 million more? Green Street seems like a pretty risky investment right now.

Tim wrote: ↑

Sep 26, 2024

Odds that this doesn't reopen under Green Street's ownership?

What's really odd is that Green Street owns all of the entities involved here, but they are complaining in a press release that they themselves via their own ownership didn't make the capital investment to build out all the spaces. Of course, when you are overlevereged and don't have the capital nor borrowing capacity, you can't make the investment, but why put that in the press release? Hoping people don't know it's all the same, maybe?

It will be interesting to see how temporary this closure is. If they actually had a positive cash-flow on the Armory operations, you would think they would want to keep it open if they can, but there could be plenty of deeper issues at play to cause the plug to be pulled.

It would make no sense for them to close up shop temporarily halting monthly revenue with their rate likely dropping assuming they had a floating rate. I find it highly improbable they were remotely earning enough revenue to cover their monthly debt service. The timing is suspect with rates just dropping. I’m guessing this is a more permanent move hoping they can lure a buyer to take the property off their hands and pay off their remaining debt. And being optimistic with lower rates hoping there will be more demand for CRE as a result. They were basically just trying to pump up the value in that press release saying how wonderful the site is, how successful it is, how much more successful it could be and how great the St. Louis market is.

stl skyline dreamer wrote: ↑

Sep 26, 2024

It would make no sense for them to close up shop temporarily halting monthly revenue with their rate likely dropping assuming they had a floating rate. I find it highly improbable they were remotely earning enough revenue to cover their monthly debt service. The timing is suspect with rates just dropping. I’m guessing this is a more permanent move hoping they can lure a buyer to take the property off their hands and pay off their remaining debt. And being optimistic with lower rates hoping there will be more demand for CRE as a result. They were basically just trying to pump up the value in that press release saying how wonderful the site is, how successful it is, how much more successful it could be and how great the St. Louis market is.

I get the point, however I don't think anyone would just buy the property based on the good reviews of the previous owner. I would ask for the financial statements to see how large the deficit was and then evaluate if the projections about the income of the unfinished portion would cover that deficit and generate a profit. Of course I wouldn't take those projections at face value, they would need to be reasonable.

The armory inevitably becomes a concert venue right? We don’t really have that size venue in the city. BPV is probably similar capacity but not used for concerts regularly

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Oct 05, 2024

The armory inevitably becomes a concert venue right? We don’t really have that size venue in the city. BPV is probably similar capacity but not used for concerts regularly

I doubt it. The acoustics in there are brutal.

Since the armory stopped being an armory, have there been any long term uses of the space? I remember when I was a kid it was briefly some sort of indoor sports center. Seems like a tough space to repurpose, and a crappy location.

They have had numerous concerts since it opened as this current concept, including some decently big acts. I am not sure how good the acoustics ended up being at these shows.

I’ve played a lot of sports there over the years as well. We even played indoor baseball there with the space being so large.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Each time I went to the Armory the live music drove me to leave. It was deafening and distorted.

It could become the coolest YMCA of all time, maybe with an indoor waterpark

What if it becomes a hockey rink for the blues and a blues hall of fame. Having it close to enterprise and a SLU arena could make it easier to get hockey events

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Oct 06, 2024

It could become the coolest YMCA of all time, maybe with an indoor waterpark

I wouldn't doubt if it get reinstated and opens back up as current venue only to be replaced in the future by an indoor water park.   I think at some point water park happens in the city but as most indoor water  parks to it is part of hotel/resort development so something more has to happen with another phase.   Of Course, a whole new set of construction, mechanical and plumbing build outs probably make it less than 50/50 chance

Of course, another thought and probably years down the road is Foundry Phase 4 is a Armory redevelopment/Hotel development.   I think the hotel tower on top of garage w direct access to Grave Ave was in original Amory phased development renderings.   You got the metrolink access/interstate access & visibility, hospital/SLU medical & a new Target to the south, you got SLU campus/Grand Center to the north and if the connections built out right you got great Foundry/Cortex access to the West.    In some ways it might be a better location for a full service hotel tower  

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Oct 06, 2024

What if it becomes a hockey rink for the blues and a blues hall of fame.   Having it close to enterprise and a SLU arena could make it easier to get hockey events

As in what they had at St. Louis Mills years ago and similar to Centene Arena at Maryland Heights now? I would be all for that! It would be awesome to have it already for events related to 2025 Frozen Four. Blues do need a hall of fame, and I think this would push the needle on connectivity to rest of midtown/downtown west. A Blues buildout around Enterprise, Union Station buildout, Foundry buildout, Steelcote and your idea would make a pretty awesome entertainment corridor if Brickine can actually connect them all.

I approve

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Oct 06, 2024

What if it becomes a hockey rink for the blues and a blues hall of fame.   Having it close to enterprise and a SLU arena could make it easier to get hockey events

Please.  Also, there aren't any youth rinks in the city as I recall.  Missing out on a lot of tourism, hotel stays, etc. if they could get tournaments going.

Also, would show investment from the organization in cultivating the sport within other demographics.  Things they have shown some initiative in.  But also this would be directly connected to some already robust public transportation.. from the very beginning talks of the rehab it seemed like a no brainer.

The main room seems perfect for a full-on multi-court pickleball complex.  Add in the yet-to-be-completed lower level skating rink and nightclub and I could see this working.  The main room as a concert venue doesn't work because the floor is mostly press-down carpet tiles.  The carpet would need to be removed for either concept.  Removing the carpet would add to the acoustic issues, so additional sound deadening would be needed for a concert concept.  Ceiling hanging panels could accomplish this.