There's nothing wrong with the Dome. There's nothing great about it either. The problem is that NFL teams want billion dollar palaces to play 10 games a year in so the standard has risen to great building rather than functional building.moorlander wrote:I too don't see what's so wrong with the dome other than the product on the field
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Correct. The Dome lacks the bells and whistles and suites and all those things that make the owners a little extra cash with every game day.
It has plenty of seats with plenty of fine views of the field, though, so it's a fine place to watch a football game. People will continue to pile on and call it a depressing place, but that has everything to do with the team that plays in it.
If they're winning this year the environment will be raucous inside.
But I typically don't bother to defend the dome any more. Even though it is a fine place to play a game, the reality is it's not up to league standards any more, and the Rams now have the leverage to get a new building somewhere, so either they'll get one here or in another city within 10 years or less.
Suggesting they could just play in the Dome for another 20 years isn't crazy, but it is completely unrealistic, so it's not really worth it to me.
It has plenty of seats with plenty of fine views of the field, though, so it's a fine place to watch a football game. People will continue to pile on and call it a depressing place, but that has everything to do with the team that plays in it.
If they're winning this year the environment will be raucous inside.
But I typically don't bother to defend the dome any more. Even though it is a fine place to play a game, the reality is it's not up to league standards any more, and the Rams now have the leverage to get a new building somewhere, so either they'll get one here or in another city within 10 years or less.
Suggesting they could just play in the Dome for another 20 years isn't crazy, but it is completely unrealistic, so it's not really worth it to me.
Take for what it is worth but didn't realize that Raiders can essentially walk away from the Bay area as far as their stadium lease goes. Also, I get a kick out of any sports story that involves LA somehow includes Magic Johnson.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... hnson.html
The other tidbit in the Raiders stadium drama is that Oaklands A's signed a 10 year lease with option to opt out after 4 years. Essentially gives Raider's an excuse/reason for a move as far as its desire not wanting to share a stadium which has been expressed for awhile out here. I don't see how NFL can argue against that point. At the same time, as soon as the A's lease was signed it was reported that they hired an architect to design a new baseball stadium next to the Coliseum which would make any Riader's argument that the A's have no intention to move a moot point. Especially when San Jose legal battle with MLB marches on with no end in sight.
What I take away from this mess. Good to be a lawyer in the pro sports business for at lease a couple more years.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... hnson.html
The other tidbit in the Raiders stadium drama is that Oaklands A's signed a 10 year lease with option to opt out after 4 years. Essentially gives Raider's an excuse/reason for a move as far as its desire not wanting to share a stadium which has been expressed for awhile out here. I don't see how NFL can argue against that point. At the same time, as soon as the A's lease was signed it was reported that they hired an architect to design a new baseball stadium next to the Coliseum which would make any Riader's argument that the A's have no intention to move a moot point. Especially when San Jose legal battle with MLB marches on with no end in sight.
What I take away from this mess. Good to be a lawyer in the pro sports business for at lease a couple more years.
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I believe Oakland will be a city without its 2 teams in 5-10 years There's been lots of talk of the A's possibly moving to Portland Oregon & i truly believe the Raiders will be LA's next team with an expansion team going there possibly . I do believe the Rams are about a 50/50 chance staying in Saint.Louis something will get worked out for the Rams to stay here .
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If Kronke does acquire the rest of Hollywood park race track as reported, can he develop a site for an opposing team or is that a conflict of the by-laws. Can he retain ownership of portions of a development around another teams stadium if he so chooses. He has shown an interest in owning multiple teams in the same league (see MLS) but has been pushed out. Seems like this would be the next best thing.
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It has two levels of suites now, and upgraded those a couple of years ago. Could they even sell more suites if they had them? Do they sell the ones they have now? Once you include a lot of TVs and a bathroom, what more could you put into a suite? I think rich folks just like to sit in their indoor suites and watch the lowly upper middle class suffering out in the weather. It heightens the sense of superiority. But if we're all indoors, its harder to justify the cost of a suite, I suppose.jstriebel wrote:Correct. The Dome lacks the bells and whistles and suites and all those things that make the owners a little extra cash with every game day.
It has plenty of seats with plenty of fine views of the field, though, so it's a fine place to watch a football game. People will continue to pile on and call it a depressing place, but that has everything to do with the team that plays in it.
If they're winning this year the environment will be raucous inside.
But I typically don't bother to defend the dome any more. Even though it is a fine place to play a game, the reality is it's not up to league standards any more, and the Rams now have the leverage to get a new building somewhere, so either they'll get one here or in another city within 10 years or less.
Suggesting they could just play in the Dome for another 20 years isn't crazy, but it is completely unrealistic, so it's not really worth it to me.
I still wish the CVC would take a shot at installing just an amazing array of computer controlled lighting to brighten the place and dazzle the attendees. Not many stadiums can control the level of light that from full black to (currently) dim to (someday?) daylight levels, the way that dome could if they wanted to. That would seem to be a cheap transition ahead of the step to the full $1 billion mega-mall open air stadium. And I'm sure, as soon as we build it, the technology will go back to domes with amazing light and environment control anyway to instantly makes our new stadium obsolete again.
Is it that hard nowadays to perfectly simulate a Jerry Jones hole in the roof with clever massive projection?
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It should not be overlooked that fans in Jacksonville, Tampa Bay, and San Diego all say a similar thing about their team possibly moving to L.A. And while the Rams did come from there, the situation here I don't believe is as bad as people think. As annoying as some of the "Best Fans In Baseball" can get, it's worth noting St. Louis has a long history of team support and when the Rams were winning, you'd walk away from a game at the Dome with your ears ringing.
And why not St. Louis? This MSA is bigger than half of the teams' MSAs in the NFL. With Buffalo's pending sale showing that team made around 40-50 million dollars in profits and similarly for Green Bay (a grandfathered Publicly Held Corporation ownership structure), I'm starting to think the NFL does make a lot of money, but it's not a ridiculous ROI for owners considering teams are worth north of $800 million. Who knows, the arbitration and the "Top Tier" clause could be limited to stadiums that existed at the time of the Dome being built.
So with that in mind, St. Louis is still an attractive mid-market for a team.
And why not St. Louis? This MSA is bigger than half of the teams' MSAs in the NFL. With Buffalo's pending sale showing that team made around 40-50 million dollars in profits and similarly for Green Bay (a grandfathered Publicly Held Corporation ownership structure), I'm starting to think the NFL does make a lot of money, but it's not a ridiculous ROI for owners considering teams are worth north of $800 million. Who knows, the arbitration and the "Top Tier" clause could be limited to stadiums that existed at the time of the Dome being built.
So with that in mind, St. Louis is still an attractive mid-market for a team.
I do agree that some of the people you see down in the 100 level reading their New York Times and eating bagels would instead be in luxury boxes if the Rams played at an outdoor stadium. I've road tripped to a number of Rams away games and often sat in the lowest tier of seats between the end zones. (I've gotten good at watching the trends on stubhub.com to get good tickets are a decent price) The makeup of the crowd at those outdoor places is much different than St. Louis. Real fans standing and cheering: not the "sit down and shut up" crowd you get here.gary kreie wrote:It has two levels of suites now, and upgraded those a couple of years ago. Could they even sell more suites if they had them? Do they sell the ones they have now? Once you include a lot of TVs and a bathroom, what more could you put into a suite? I think rich folks just like to sit in their indoor suites and watch the lowly upper middle class suffering out in the weather. It heightens the sense of superiority. But if we're all indoors, its harder to justify the cost of a suite, I suppose.jstriebel wrote:Correct. The Dome lacks the bells and whistles and suites and all those things that make the owners a little extra cash with every game day.
It has plenty of seats with plenty of fine views of the field, though, so it's a fine place to watch a football game. People will continue to pile on and call it a depressing place, but that has everything to do with the team that plays in it.
If they're winning this year the environment will be raucous inside.
But I typically don't bother to defend the dome any more. Even though it is a fine place to play a game, the reality is it's not up to league standards any more, and the Rams now have the leverage to get a new building somewhere, so either they'll get one here or in another city within 10 years or less.
Suggesting they could just play in the Dome for another 20 years isn't crazy, but it is completely unrealistic, so it's not really worth it to me.
I still wish the CVC would take a shot at installing just an amazing array of computer controlled lighting to brighten the place and dazzle the attendees. Not many stadiums can control the level of light that from full black to (currently) dim to (someday?) daylight levels, the way that dome could if they wanted to. That would seem to be a cheap transition ahead of the step to the full $1 billion mega-mall open air stadium. And I'm sure, as soon as we build it, the technology will go back to domes with amazing light and environment control anyway to instantly makes our new stadium obsolete again.
Is it that hard nowadays to perfectly simulate a Jerry Jones hole in the roof with clever massive projection? I think I could do it with a velcro'd array of 1,000 IPADs and a GOPRO for about half a million bucks.
What you're also seeing at the newer stadiums is a further 'brazilification" of the attendees. The 49ers new stadium has all the luxury boxes on one side of the stadium. At Cowboys/AT&T all the "regular" fans have to enter from the endzone plazas while all the luxury suite owners enter on the sidelines sides of the stadium. Plus regular ticket holders can't walk around the stadium (except for the top deck) because the sides are all luxury boxes.
I hope if a new Rams stadium is built, it's more egalitarian.
Make that all 3 as the Golden State Warriors are again making a play to move to San Francisco.TheNewSaintLouis wrote:I believe Oakland will be a city without its 2 teams in 5-10 years There's been lots of talk of the A's possibly moving to Portland Oregon & i truly believe the Raiders will be LA's next team with an expansion team going there possibly . I do believe the Rams are about a 50/50 chance staying in Saint.Louis something will get worked out for the Rams to stay here .
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... cisco.html
Article about the Raiders officials trip to San Antonio.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/pro- ... 684807.php
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/pro- ... 684807.php
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I couldn't see the Raiders moving to San Antonio for many major reasons then again anything is possible as for the Rams like mentioned 50% chance they stay in Saint.Louis
Do you think the NFL will do any & everything in its will to keep the Bills in Buffalo or give Buffalo the boot for a more profitable Toronto team??
Theres also talks about a team in London but I'm not too heavy on that just wouldn't feel right .
I think if Stan can get his way here which i think he will he'll have a new stadium not only for the Rams but also a potential MLS team which i think Saint.Louis can support...
Do you think the NFL will do any & everything in its will to keep the Bills in Buffalo or give Buffalo the boot for a more profitable Toronto team??
Theres also talks about a team in London but I'm not too heavy on that just wouldn't feel right .
I think if Stan can get his way here which i think he will he'll have a new stadium not only for the Rams but also a potential MLS team which i think Saint.Louis can support...
Here's what I take from that article:
1. I pray that our city officials feel the same sense of urgency or opportunity that the San Antonio officials were portrayed as having. San Antonio is a growing city who obviously sees the NFL as an asset that is worth significant investment to even entertain the notion of luring a team. Let's hope our own leaders are not taking this for granted and are working just as hard to keep what they have.
1a. It's discouraging that this Raiders/San Antonio garbage springs up quickly and all of the sudden there are reams of documents and information accessible to the media about sales pitch efforts on San Antonio's part. Meanwhile, our situation sits idle with nothing more than whispers, cryptic tweets, and coded messages about "possible" talks and discussions between certain "parties" and the Rams. Would be nice to get equally detailed discussions.
2. It's not hard to imagine similar meetings taking place between Rams' officials and LA next winter or spring if indeed everyone is going to remain tight lipped about anything until the lease free agency term begins. I wouldn't put it past Stan to blow everything up with a massive definitive announcement (either staying or going) soon after the 2014 season (track record: his swiftly announced decision to take majority ownership, effectively brushing aside Shad Khan after a lot of media discussion about Khan; also the quick and decisive overhaul in 2012 removing Devaney and Spags for Snead/Fisher). But, if the battle drags out and the team openly explores all options, which Kevin D has already hinted is coming, I'm prepared to read about Stan and Kevin being "wined and dined" all over Southern California.
For now, I'll look forward to getting into the Dome today and check out this team in person for the first time this year.
Go Rams.
PS. STL officials: when it's our turn to take Stan out to dinner, let's make it a little more personal than Ruth's Chris'.....kind of surprising that San Antonio would choose an incredibly generic dining experience in a weekend themed to showcase the unique and attractive qualities of San Antonio.
1. I pray that our city officials feel the same sense of urgency or opportunity that the San Antonio officials were portrayed as having. San Antonio is a growing city who obviously sees the NFL as an asset that is worth significant investment to even entertain the notion of luring a team. Let's hope our own leaders are not taking this for granted and are working just as hard to keep what they have.
1a. It's discouraging that this Raiders/San Antonio garbage springs up quickly and all of the sudden there are reams of documents and information accessible to the media about sales pitch efforts on San Antonio's part. Meanwhile, our situation sits idle with nothing more than whispers, cryptic tweets, and coded messages about "possible" talks and discussions between certain "parties" and the Rams. Would be nice to get equally detailed discussions.
2. It's not hard to imagine similar meetings taking place between Rams' officials and LA next winter or spring if indeed everyone is going to remain tight lipped about anything until the lease free agency term begins. I wouldn't put it past Stan to blow everything up with a massive definitive announcement (either staying or going) soon after the 2014 season (track record: his swiftly announced decision to take majority ownership, effectively brushing aside Shad Khan after a lot of media discussion about Khan; also the quick and decisive overhaul in 2012 removing Devaney and Spags for Snead/Fisher). But, if the battle drags out and the team openly explores all options, which Kevin D has already hinted is coming, I'm prepared to read about Stan and Kevin being "wined and dined" all over Southern California.
For now, I'll look forward to getting into the Dome today and check out this team in person for the first time this year.
Go Rams.
PS. STL officials: when it's our turn to take Stan out to dinner, let's make it a little more personal than Ruth's Chris'.....kind of surprising that San Antonio would choose an incredibly generic dining experience in a weekend themed to showcase the unique and attractive qualities of San Antonio.
IIRC there is a Ruth's Chris on the Riverwalk.blzhrpmd2 wrote:PS. STL officials: when it's our turn to take Stan out to dinner, let's make it a little more personal than Ruth's Chris'.....kind of surprising that San Antonio would choose an incredibly generic dining experience in a weekend themed to showcase the unique and attractive qualities of San Antonio.
Obviously it's preseason, but it was disappointing to watch the running game do absolutely nothing this afternoon. I'm sure Robinson will benefit from getting Long and Wells on either side of him in a few weeks, but Stacy had nowhere to go. The defense was missing some key parts as well but there was no pressure on Rodgers. I'm a little worried that teams are going to figure out that short, quick passes against a soft secondary and questionable linebacking corp are going to be the answer against an apparently strong front 4. They'll say they didn't game plan and all that stuff.....
On the plus side, Bradford looked pretty sharp especially on great passes and catches by Cook, Quick, and Kendricks (TD). Britt is a specimen and the Quick/Britt combo with Austin in the slot should hopefully make for some big play potential.
If this is going to be a ground and pound offense, they've got a lot of work to do. It will be interesting to face off against the most hyped rookie QB next weekend in what everyone considers the most significant preseason game as far as game plans and schemes.
On the plus side, Bradford looked pretty sharp especially on great passes and catches by Cook, Quick, and Kendricks (TD). Britt is a specimen and the Quick/Britt combo with Austin in the slot should hopefully make for some big play potential.
If this is going to be a ground and pound offense, they've got a lot of work to do. It will be interesting to face off against the most hyped rookie QB next weekend in what everyone considers the most significant preseason game as far as game plans and schemes.
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I know this is all speculation, but this type of junk just fans the flames...
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2014/8/14/ ... os-angeles
http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2014/8/14/ ... os-angeles
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Freakin' flamers. In my homer heart of hearts, I still think this town is plenty viable for a franchise and maybe Kronke could pull the old switcheroo that brought the Rams here in the first place. At least I'm hopeful since Kronke is a Missouri guy and in a franchise swap, Kronke gets the Jaguars and L.A. and Shahid Khan who wanted to buy the Rams gets the team and stays here. And of course all of this done without burdening city budgets with subsidy taxes for generations.
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St. Louis Rams, Why Your Team Sucks...
http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks ... 1624368531
Note that this guy does one of these for every team, and also did the excellent hit job on Cards fans last year in the playoffs.
That said, which one of you wrote this comment...
http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks ... 1624368531
Note that this guy does one of these for every team, and also did the excellent hit job on Cards fans last year in the playoffs.
That said, which one of you wrote this comment...
I look forward to Monday mornings. I get up, kiss my beautiful wife goodbye and ride my bicycle to my work through a national treasure of a park and in those 20 minutes I get to pretend I live in a fine city that is well known and full of cosmopolitan nice people and I breathe a sigh of pleasure for living in St. Louis...and then I get to work and realize it's mostly a bunch of mouthbreathers who drove in from the country and do nothing but complain about traffic and talk about the St. Louis Cardinals, then plan their next fast food outing for lunch.
I hate the Rams because they embody everything I know about being a St. Louisan. You're overlooked completely by the national media, virtually identical sh*tty mid-markets talk down to you like somehow they're better (I'm looking at you Kansas City/Indy/Cincy/Detroit/Cleveland/Denver/Memphis/Minneapolis/Denver/Green Bay/every other ***** town that's the same sh*t in a different zip code), had success for a short period of time which quickly went away leading to historical amounts of sucking, located in a downtown where hard-working honest people are trying to make something of themselves, while miles away the children of racists who left the city in the 1960s write racist things on the internet, and face a division of Urban vs Suburban because if you live outside the city limits, you're only allowed to like baseball apparently. If St. Louis were to hold a "Name the Team" competition today the top two choices would have to be "Urban Sprawl" or "Racial Division"
At least there's plenty of good craft beer being made in St. Louis to drown our collective inferiority sorrows.
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/Waves
I would like to point out for those that are unfamiliar with the "That's Why Your Team Sucks" series, it's essentially a cathartic Roast for the 31 Franchises who did not win the Super Bowl last season.
I would like to point out for those that are unfamiliar with the "That's Why Your Team Sucks" series, it's essentially a cathartic Roast for the 31 Franchises who did not win the Super Bowl last season.
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Not trying to create war but the harsh reality is that boomers have ran this city into its very near coffin & reality the only people that can save it are the younger generation & thats not even a given.
Kroenke is another boomer that will do the inevitable move the hell out of Saint.Louis instead of helping & being supportive of the area.
I do understand its all about money however instead of buying land in LA he could very well buy land in Saint.Louis he just perpetuates the many problems that plague Saint.Louis.
1 of Forbes reasonings for the Rams being the least valuable team is because of the Cardinals which i will never buy into. Cardinals actually win games so of course they are going to be favorite however I will like to think that most Saint.Louisans are supportive of the Rams only if they tried making an effort in winning & not giving a excuse to move out of Saint.Louis. What about the bad coaches they hired the awful drafting through the entire decade that what makes the team not valuable. People are not going to show up to watch a team win a total of 2 games a year point blank.
Its like saying Kansas City Royals are the least valuable team & the reasoning for them to leave is that its a soccer town or football.
As far as racist post in the local newspaper I've read many different newspapers online in various cities & sorry to say Saint.Louis isn't any more racist than what this country actually is. Most people do & say their dirty deeds behind the internet which is sad & gives most of us a bad rap here..
In all i would dislike the Rams moving however at the end of the day its not my team not my money therefore i don't have a say so Kroenke going to do what Kroenke going to do.
This is all my opinion...
Kroenke is another boomer that will do the inevitable move the hell out of Saint.Louis instead of helping & being supportive of the area.
I do understand its all about money however instead of buying land in LA he could very well buy land in Saint.Louis he just perpetuates the many problems that plague Saint.Louis.
1 of Forbes reasonings for the Rams being the least valuable team is because of the Cardinals which i will never buy into. Cardinals actually win games so of course they are going to be favorite however I will like to think that most Saint.Louisans are supportive of the Rams only if they tried making an effort in winning & not giving a excuse to move out of Saint.Louis. What about the bad coaches they hired the awful drafting through the entire decade that what makes the team not valuable. People are not going to show up to watch a team win a total of 2 games a year point blank.
Its like saying Kansas City Royals are the least valuable team & the reasoning for them to leave is that its a soccer town or football.
As far as racist post in the local newspaper I've read many different newspapers online in various cities & sorry to say Saint.Louis isn't any more racist than what this country actually is. Most people do & say their dirty deeds behind the internet which is sad & gives most of us a bad rap here..
In all i would dislike the Rams moving however at the end of the day its not my team not my money therefore i don't have a say so Kroenke going to do what Kroenke going to do.
This is all my opinion...
Long article from the Washington Post about the Michael Sam and the Rams halfway through the pre-season.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spor ... ms-roster/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spor ... ms-roster/
Challenges? CHALLENGES?
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[Sets footage of Sam Bradford to Sarah McLachlan's "In The Arms Of The Angel". /Weeps]
I was really hoping for this year to be the year of proving people wrong. But now I think it's time for the Rams and Bradford to go their separate ways after a bad investment.
I was really hoping for this year to be the year of proving people wrong. But now I think it's time for the Rams and Bradford to go their separate ways after a bad investment.
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The Jags are tied to their lease until 2029. They actually drafted a lease that was beneficial to the City of Jacksonville. Shad has done nothing but reiterate his commitment to JAX. He has made improvements to the stadium and marketed the team heavily in JAX. Whether that is smoke and mirrors, who knows, but I'm sure it is not hard to like living in Florida. Also, the south is growing at a faster pace than the Midwest, so the long term potential seems to be there. I do not see the Jags moving anytime soon.Freakin' flamers. In my homer heart of hearts, I still think this town is plenty viable for a franchise and maybe Kronke could pull the old switcheroo that brought the Rams here in the first place. At least I'm hopeful since Kronke is a Missouri guy and in a franchise swap, Kronke gets the Jaguars and L.A. and Shahid Khan who wanted to buy the Rams gets the team and stays here. And of course all of this done without burdening city budgets with subsidy taxes for generations.
The Rams, Raiders and Chargers, still lead the way, in the race to LA, IMO. Stan has done NOTHING, compared to Shad, to give us any hope that he wants to stay here. One can only hope, that this is all part of the process of getting a new venue here in STL. I have to say, I am not that confident that STL can get our sh-t together. We've bungled many deals of this nature. The Cardinals should have NEVER moved. I think Bidwell is a buffoon, but look at the Big Red now. We had a history. We would have a long history. I loved the 2 Cardinal franchises in one city. Now we have a Rams team that occasionally, TV analysts mistake as the LA Rams. You have a large contingent in Southern CA claiming the team as theirs. You have an owner that cannot be trusted, based upon his moves, like buying land in LA, remaining completely silent, while letting the lease expire, after demanding $700 million in improvements. Not to mention, just looking shady and wearing a bad toupee.
I think this season could get ugly, attendance- wise, if they start losing. The schedule is tough, Sam Bradford is out and I think this could play into the hands of Stan if he wants to justify a move to LA. I am one of the "chicken-littles" Bernie Miklaus refers to. I am, only because we in STL have been burned before and I've seen nothing to show that a behind the scenes effort is underway. After seeing that stuttering buffoon Jay Nixon's handling of the Mike Brown ordeal, I have no confidence in him leading the charge to keep the Rams here. Time will tell what happens, but I now say there is a 65% chance the Rams leave. I was at 50-50 not that long ago. As the season goes to hell, if it does, that % will go up in favor of a move.