The Beacon recently had an article about the latest proficiency scores from the public and charter schools: St. Louis schools show improvement, but accreditation is out of reach
It's a good read for people wanting to get a feel for city schools, but to me the most interesting part is comparing the charter schools to the public schools. Towards the bottom of the article is a graph comparing math and communication arts proficiency from the various charter schools to the SLPS average; some do much better than the SLPS, others do substantially worse.
The P-D has a related article.
It's a good read for people wanting to get a feel for city schools, but to me the most interesting part is comparing the charter schools to the public schools. Towards the bottom of the article is a graph comparing math and communication arts proficiency from the various charter schools to the SLPS average; some do much better than the SLPS, others do substantially worse.
The P-D has a related article.
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I'm a little surprised to see St. Louis Language Immersion Schools' scores so low. I thought they would be quite a bit higher.
That's interesting data. I wonder if there is a breakdown by household income or some similar statistic. I think all the race metrics do is reflect the proportion of affluent to very poor in each category and keep our brains locked into the wrong part of the problem.
To that point, and I cannot stress this enough, STL needs to build public school programs that meet the needs of the middle class. We want challenging, economically and racially diverse neighborhood schools. SLPS got off on the wrong path by siphoning off the achieving students into the magnets et al. It should have been the other way around - special schools or a special district should have been designated to address the specific problems of kids that live in deep poverty, unstable homes, in high-crime neighborhoods. Leaving the regular public schools in a position to actually be competitive, and omitting the need for magnets, gifted, charter, etc.
I guarantee you would have an accredited school district overnight.
To that point, and I cannot stress this enough, STL needs to build public school programs that meet the needs of the middle class. We want challenging, economically and racially diverse neighborhood schools. SLPS got off on the wrong path by siphoning off the achieving students into the magnets et al. It should have been the other way around - special schools or a special district should have been designated to address the specific problems of kids that live in deep poverty, unstable homes, in high-crime neighborhoods. Leaving the regular public schools in a position to actually be competitive, and omitting the need for magnets, gifted, charter, etc.
I guarantee you would have an accredited school district overnight.
I was also a little disappointed the the results for SLLIS, but I believe that we will need a lot more data before we can conclude how this school is doing.debaliviere wrote:I'm a little surprised to see St. Louis Language Immersion Schools' scores so low. I thought they would be quite a bit higher.
This was the first year of testing for SLLIS and there were a total of 44 kids taking the test. Not exactly a huge pool. Also, we have to remember that this is a language immersion school and the students are being taught in French of Spanish, while the test is in English. We will need to see how these students progress through the years in order to really see if SLLIS is a success.
I am hoping that the performance mirrors that of Acadamie Lafayette in KC, where you see steady progress as the children get older.
Another P-D article: Charter schools get wide range of results
I think this is the sort of data that we really need (but external, rather than internal, data):
I think this is the sort of data that we really need (but external, rather than internal, data):
If a student, for example, attended a poorly performing school from kindergarten through fifth grade, his sixth-grade scores on the state tests won't necessarily show the strength of academics at his new school.
Robbyn Wahby, the education liaison to Mayor Slay, said: "You can't say, 'Well, the charter schools aren't performing because they weren't able to get that child to the state standard in one year.' That's a ridiculous expectation."
Take South City Preparatory Academy, for example. In its first year, the school's internal tests show the students have averaged 1.9 years' worth of growth in reading and 1.7 years' worth in math, said Mike Malone, head of school. But even then, the progress was not enough to put some students at grade level in those areas on the state tests taken last spring.
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Great points. I've heard from parents who send their kids to the Immersion Schools - and I'm sure there's some evidence to back this up - that kids in such schools typically lag their peers at traditional schools in language skills initially, but then make substantial jumps as they get older. It will be interesting to see how they progress, but it sounds like they have a good framework for success in place there.bigreid74 wrote:I was also a little disappointed the the results for SLLIS, but I believe that we will need a lot more data before we can conclude how this school is doing.debaliviere wrote:I'm a little surprised to see St. Louis Language Immersion Schools' scores so low. I thought they would be quite a bit higher.
This was the first year of testing for SLLIS and there were a total of 44 kids taking the test. Not exactly a huge pool. Also, we have to remember that this is a language immersion school and the students are being taught in French of Spanish, while the test is in English. We will need to see how these students progress through the years in order to really see if SLLIS is a success.
I am hoping that the performance mirrors that of Acadamie Lafayette in KC, where you see steady progress as the children get older.
Via STL Public Radio on twitter: the Missouri Board of Education voted unanimously to give St. Louis Public Schools Provisional Accreditation.
Very good news.
Very good news.
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I am frustrated by the title of this string and the unending ignorance (read lack of real info, not a condescending jab) regarding St. Louis schools. I am working toward a positive solution by interviewing parents/families that I respect, and kids that I like/respect on their education experiences. I started with Mullanphy, a school I knew absolutely nothing about a couple months ago. http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/02/ ... chool.html
The goal is to have an indexed list of St. Louis schools public, charter and private that are viable options to consider and a parent can click on each one and learn a little more about the school and hear from parents that are actively involved in their kids lives talking about it.
If you are a parent or expecting parent, I would like to know what else you'd like to see in these posts. I don't have my sea legs yet on this process and I want them to be useful and real. Please PM me if you have advice or have kids in a city school and are generally happy (keeping in mind no school is 100% perfect) and would like to tell your story, we can talk more. Thanks
The goal is to have an indexed list of St. Louis schools public, charter and private that are viable options to consider and a parent can click on each one and learn a little more about the school and hear from parents that are actively involved in their kids lives talking about it.
If you are a parent or expecting parent, I would like to know what else you'd like to see in these posts. I don't have my sea legs yet on this process and I want them to be useful and real. Please PM me if you have advice or have kids in a city school and are generally happy (keeping in mind no school is 100% perfect) and would like to tell your story, we can talk more. Thanks
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Awesome idea, man.Mark Groth wrote:I am frustrated by the title of this string and the unending ignorance (read lack of real info, not a condescending jab) regarding St. Louis schools. I am working toward a positive solution by interviewing parents/families that I respect, and kids that I like/respect on their education experiences. I started with Mullanphy, a school I knew absolutely nothing about a couple months ago. http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/02/ ... chool.html
The goal is to have an indexed list of St. Louis schools public, charter and private that are viable options to consider and a parent can click on each one and learn a little more about the school and hear from parents that are actively involved in their kids lives talking about it.
If you are a parent or expecting parent, I would like to know what else you'd like to see in these posts. I don't have my sea legs yet on this process and I want them to be useful and real. Please PM me if you have advice or have kids in a city school and are generally happy (keeping in mind no school is 100% perfect) and would like to tell your story, we can talk more. Thanks
Also, I've updated the thread title to (hopefully) encourage productive discourse.
@ Mark Great post on your blog. Very interesting. Towards tend of your post you mention "systematic political corruption". What was the context? Specifically within the school, the entire SLPS, or the city?
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Those were the words of the person I interviewed. I believe this was directed toward the city as a whole where many view the public schools are being neglected and bankrupted by charters, etc. One of the questions I am holding firm to in my interviews is "name the #1 negative of your school". People need to hear that to keep it balanced and not just a fluff piece. It's very telling to watch a parent pause and really have to reach far for a negative.pat wrote:@ Mark Great post on your blog. Very interesting. Towards tend of your post you mention "systematic political corruption". What was the context? Specifically within the school, the entire SLPS, or the city?
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Mark, great idea. One thing I've thought about it is highlighting the "Tower Grove Avenue School Corridor" that consists of a strong variety of public and private options along or just off Tower Grove. Working north from the park you have Tower Grove Christian School, Mullanphy Public Elementary Magnet, St. Margaret of Scotland, Citygarden Montessori Public Charter Elementary, Adams Public Elementary and Stix Early Childhood Public Magnet ending at the terminus of Tower Grove. Lots of good options (not too sure of Adams) particularly for families living in TGS, Shaw and FPSE neighborhoods.
I'll try to PM you on Stix.
I'll try to PM you on Stix.
What does everyone think about this piece from P-D on City Garden Montessori's role in neighborhood change in the Mcree, Shaw, SW Garden, etc. neighborhoods? http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/educ ... e=comments
Personally, I think the article was a little weak on data to back up its claims and inquiries, but regardless, I like the idea to pursue this topic. As someone with very limited knowledge of education in the city, I did know City Garden was doing well, but until recently, did not know about the stipulation that only residents of the 63110 zip code could attend. Again, I'm limited in my grasp on all the moving pieces here, but I see this as a real source of momentum for these neighborhoods and the city as a whole. These are beautiful neighborhoods, and I feel that if a further critical mass of middle class families with school age children can be motivated to plant here and get involved, it could transform this area in the city. I hope this school can be a model for further tying neighborhood growth and educational improvement in this and other parts of the city.
I was frustrated with how the issue of gentrification was dealt with in the article however. I believe it's a valid and important issue to discuss, yet the reporter did almost no investigation beyond finding some anecdotal accounts that gentrification might be happening in the area. Nor did they do any effort to investigate whether these supposed changes are due primarily because of the school or whether other factors are involved. Further, it seemed that the writer automatically portrayed these hypothetical changes as negative. I believe our city's newspaper should be able to analyze and frame issues in a much more nuanced manner than "bad schools=bad, good schools= good, gentrification= bad". I think it's obvious that you cannot have sustainable growth in the city without improved options for education. Neither can you have improved education without improving and integrating economic diversity within the city and public education system. This seems to be a model which is achieving both, albeit within isolated neighborhoods and in the public charter system.
I also am quick to argue against the false choice argument that attracting middle class and wealthier households to an area (ie. what many people falsely refer to as gentrification in St. Louis) somehow automatically hurts all low income individuals in that area.
Personally, I think the article was a little weak on data to back up its claims and inquiries, but regardless, I like the idea to pursue this topic. As someone with very limited knowledge of education in the city, I did know City Garden was doing well, but until recently, did not know about the stipulation that only residents of the 63110 zip code could attend. Again, I'm limited in my grasp on all the moving pieces here, but I see this as a real source of momentum for these neighborhoods and the city as a whole. These are beautiful neighborhoods, and I feel that if a further critical mass of middle class families with school age children can be motivated to plant here and get involved, it could transform this area in the city. I hope this school can be a model for further tying neighborhood growth and educational improvement in this and other parts of the city.
I was frustrated with how the issue of gentrification was dealt with in the article however. I believe it's a valid and important issue to discuss, yet the reporter did almost no investigation beyond finding some anecdotal accounts that gentrification might be happening in the area. Nor did they do any effort to investigate whether these supposed changes are due primarily because of the school or whether other factors are involved. Further, it seemed that the writer automatically portrayed these hypothetical changes as negative. I believe our city's newspaper should be able to analyze and frame issues in a much more nuanced manner than "bad schools=bad, good schools= good, gentrification= bad". I think it's obvious that you cannot have sustainable growth in the city without improved options for education. Neither can you have improved education without improving and integrating economic diversity within the city and public education system. This seems to be a model which is achieving both, albeit within isolated neighborhoods and in the public charter system.
I also am quick to argue against the false choice argument that attracting middle class and wealthier households to an area (ie. what many people falsely refer to as gentrification in St. Louis) somehow automatically hurts all low income individuals in that area.
I'm also a low-income resident of 63110, by the way and couldn't be happier that the neighborhood is improving
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^ Well said.
FWIW - I lived in FPSE for 5yrs and tried very hard to get my daughter into City Garden. We couldn't get off the waitlist and this played a factor in us moving out of the city.
FWIW - I lived in FPSE for 5yrs and tried very hard to get my daughter into City Garden. We couldn't get off the waitlist and this played a factor in us moving out of the city.
^Do you know what the odds are of a kid getting into a school like City Garden? How difficult is it?
I'm at that age where I'm going to be moving in a year or two and want to move to an area where I can stick around for a while and have my children attend a good school.
I'm at that age where I'm going to be moving in a year or two and want to move to an area where I can stick around for a while and have my children attend a good school.
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^If you live in the neighborhood, the odds are supposedly 50-50. Unless your child is in the wrong 50%. In that case, the odds will seem worse.
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pat, City Garden is one of the few very strong charters and I'm really not sure what the odds are. If private tuition is possible, the excellent St. Margaret of Scotland is just around the corner... it is a national Blue Ribbon Award winning school. A decent magnet public elementary also is in Shaw. Nearby are the good (but-not-as-prestigious as City Garden or St. Margaret) foreign language immersion charter school and Stix magnet early childhood pre-K- 2nd Grade. So depending upon your flexibility, Shaw seems like a good neighborhood to consider.pat wrote:^Do you know what the odds are of a kid getting into a school like City Garden? How difficult is it?
I'm at that age where I'm going to be moving in a year or two and want to move to an area where I can stick around for a while and have my children attend a good school.
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The story said demand is double capacity. It also says that demand barely exceeded capacity a couple years ago and I couldn't get my daughter in. That's not fun. It appears to be a great school, but it means almost nothing if chances are 50-50. Who in their right might would buy a home in the ZIP on a 50-50 chance?
Exactly times a thousand. On the one hand it's great that the City is able to attract some parents with good education options.....but: no lotteries and no wait lists is the only acceptable situation.The story said demand is double capacity. It also says that demand barely exceeded capacity a couple years ago and I couldn't get my daughter in. That's not fun. It appears to be a great school, but it means almost nothing if chances are 50-50. Who in their right might would buy a home in the ZIP on a 50-50 chance?
All of this is great for the lucky few who get through the lottery, or who are willing to pay for and philosophically agree with the concept of private schools, but waiting lists and lotteries for a quality public school are a @#$ing joke. I'm sure the parents using these schools are very happy with what they are getting, but the odds have to be replaced with sheer certainty.
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Compton Drew Investigative Learning Center is another viable option for public school in St. Louis.
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/03/ ... rning.html
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/03/ ... rning.html
Wilkinson Early Childhood Center in the Franz Park neighborhood. This is one of two early childhood centers (Stix is the other). These have an excellent reputation and should be considered as viable options for education in St. Louis.
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/03/ ... pment.html
Expecting parents and young families, please do your research before you vacate for the county. Visit a school, talk to parents with kids in the school. You may be surprised.
http://www.stlouiscitytalk.com/2013/03/ ... pment.html
Expecting parents and young families, please do your research before you vacate for the county. Visit a school, talk to parents with kids in the school. You may be surprised.