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PostJul 17, 2006#51

I've been following this ordeal over the last few days - what is the board's position as to the reasons for Williams' firing? I still haven't seen any mention of tangible reasons why he was forced out.



Every once in a while something happens that makes me embarrassed to be a city resident. This is one of them - the last was when Irene Smith relieved herself in the Board of Aldermen meeting.
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PostJul 17, 2006#52

For those interested there will be a rally at 5:00 at the Cass School on North Jefferson on Tuesday before the school board meeting.



This will be a rally protesting the firing of Williams.



Not sure of the details, this was mentioned on the Channel 5 News last night at 10.
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PostJul 17, 2006#53

Am I wrong in identifying that the school board members who started the current Irons/Williams fiasco as the slate that Steve Patterson supported? If so, Perhaps blame for the current fiasco should be laid at the feet of those who took his advice and voted for them.
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PostJul 17, 2006#54

There were a lot more people besides Steve Patterson in support of those two candidates, before Steve Patterson said he would vote for them. None of this was done by Steve Patterson, so let's leave him out of it.
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PostJul 17, 2006#55

While personal experience has told me that Irons is a crook, this whole ordeal is so far out of whack. Floyd should have been allowed to retire on his own time, which probably would have been in the next few years.



I don't understand why there are so many people who want a political opponent of the mayor. Slay has done a pretty good job of trying to do what is best for the city, and I think that few people in his office want the school system to continue to fail the kids it serves.
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PostJul 17, 2006#56

southcitygent wrote:Am I wrong in identifying that the school board members who started the current Irons/Williams fiasco as the slate that Steve Patterson supported? If so, Perhaps blame for the current fiasco should be laid at the feet of those who took his advice and voted for them.


It's just as likely that the losing candidates would have been equally bad.
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PostJul 17, 2006#57

trent wrote:While personal experience has told me that Irons is a crook, this whole ordeal is so far out of whack. Floyd should have been allowed to retire on his own time, which probably would have been in the next few years.



I don't understand why there are so many people who want a political opponent of the mayor. Slay has done a pretty good job of trying to do what is best for the city, and I think that few people in his office want the school system to continue to fail the kids it serves.


It's really sad that the kids are lost in all of this! (That's the educator in me speaking out...) :roll:
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PostJul 18, 2006#58

how does one serve on a school board and not have their own kin in the district? O'Brien's kids go to Clayton? what a joke.
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PostJul 18, 2006#59

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:It's just as likely that the losing candidates would have been equally bad.


I don't think so. They wouldn't have forced Williams out like this.



I'm thoroughly disgusted, and like DeBaliviere, this is one of those rare times in which I am embarrassed to be a city resident.



Veronica O'Brien and the other majority members have completely failed to convince me that they were acting in the best interests of SLPS students when they forced Dr. Williams to resign and fired Floyd Irons. We'd better hope that Dr. Bourisaw does well in her new position, because after the despicable and asinine way in which this turn of events was handled, we'll be extremely hard pressed to lure another quality superintendent to the district.



Frankly, I am in favor of a state takeover as well, or at the very least, an effort to recall the recently-elected board members. And I'll add this debacle to a small but significant and growing list of reasons that I am thinking about making my next home in an inner STL county suburb instead of the city. :cry:
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PostJul 18, 2006#60

ThreeOneFour wrote:We'd better hope that Dr. Bourisaw does well in her new position


Don't get your hopes up. Check out her track record.
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PostJul 18, 2006#61

I heard that a large group of people protested these decisions outside of some board members houses last night ... (heard the story preview of 550 but missed the actual story) ..... does anone know what happened?
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PostJul 18, 2006#62

markofucity wrote:I heard that a large group of people protested these decisions outside of some board members houses last night ... (heard the story preview of 550 but missed the actual story) ..... does anone know what happened?


I saw footage on the news of protesters outside of Veronica O'Brien's home (she lives on Lindell, sends her kids to Clayton schools through the deseg program). I got the feeling the protest was more over the firing of Floyd Irons than Creg Williams. Irons was there, as was Demetrious Johnson, a friend of Irons and huge Vashon booster.
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PostJul 18, 2006#63

I can't stand to listen to Johnson. That guy never stops whining.
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PostJul 19, 2006#64

I give the new interim superintendent no more than 6 months. Can we hire Clayton's superintendent and make the contract for at least 5 years? and don't give me the bs how different childeren have different needs. They need the basics, and that's not what's being taught. The really sad thing is, you could DOUBLE the expenditure per pupil , and not much would change. Drastic times , drastic measures. I mean, could it be any worse, honestly? I know there are a handful of good schools in this district, but this has gone too far. From a district that had the first kindgergarten, first audio visual department in the country, etc, to what I saw on the news tonight is unbelieveable.
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PostJul 19, 2006#65

it really is classic that the board member's own children go to Children via the deseg program .... can't say I blame them ... I wouldn;t send my kids to a school system this poorly run either.
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PostJul 19, 2006#66

buckethead wrote:Don't get your hopes up. Check out her track record.


Dr. Williams had solid credentials, a clear vision and strategic plan for the district's turnaround, and was hired after an extensive nationwide search. OTOH, Dr. Bourisaw was superintendent of a homogenous, mostly middle-class exurban school district, and was brought into the district via the back door by the current board majority.



I hope I'm completely wrong, but Dr. Bourisaw strikes me as nothing more than a puppet for the current board majority, one whose primary agenda is carrying out the wishes of the teachers' union and those that prioritize patronage and the jobs that follow over providing a quality education for the district's 35,000 students. (If, of course, she's actually interested in keeping this job beyond the short-term.) Please note, however, that I don't question her motives so much as the motives of those that hired her. Even in their campaign, the board majority members were long on criticism of Dr. Williams and short on their own solutions and ideas IMHO.



I know some people don't want to hear that Williams was our best and only hope, but seriously, how in the hell will this district ever attract another quality superintendent? Given Dr. Bourisaw's interim status, that's a question that residents should keep asking long after the fallout settles down, if ever...



We've witnessed a renaissance in our city in recent years, as billions of dollars have been invested in downtown and throughout city neighborhoods. The nagging issues of crime and education have yet to significantly stifle the positive momentum, however, I cannot help but feel we took a serious step backward in improving upon the latter problem when the current board majority forced Dr. Williams to resign.



I never had any intention of sending my son to public schools, so that factor that drives many young families away from the city never factored in my decision to move here over three years ago. However, now that the SLPSBOE is once again a kangaroo court, and due to increasing crime and apathy about it in the area where I live, I am really thinking about settling just west of the city's borders the next time I buy a home. I love this city like no other place, and I'll always support it one way or another, but the latest public schools debacle is adding to my frustration.
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PostJul 19, 2006#67

It's an interesting little experient that they seem to be trying (in the fashion of reknowned scientist, Dr. Frankenstein). Testing the theory that you can return to the dominant status quo, satisfy everyone and raise performance outcomes, thereby avoiding a state takeover. Negative+negative=positive?



I long for the good old days of an open expense account at the Salad Bowl.
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PostJul 19, 2006#68

How does someone with no kids in the STL city district get on the school board?
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PostJul 19, 2006#69

^Simple, the vast majority of City residents eligible to serve on the school board do not have school-age children, and even if they do, don't send their kids to our public schools. IOW, we can't blame a board for looking like us.
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PostJul 19, 2006#70

From what little I have heard from Bourisaw in the past few days, one thing is apparent - she is a phony. Uses all the empty buzzwords of a politician. Her tenure will be a disaster.
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PostJul 19, 2006#71

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:From what little I have heard from Bourisaw in the past few days, one thing is apparent - she is a phony. Uses all the empty buzzwords of a politician. Her tenure will be a disaster.


It's even worse than that. She previously ran a Jefferson County school district into the ground. And then, when she was fired for it, she turned around and sued the school district. I will not be at all surprised when she does the same thing here.
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PostJul 19, 2006#72

Heck, the latest is one of the school board members, who voted out Dr. Williams, has a daughter and grandson who teach in the SLPS, I believe... This isn't a conflict of interest as far as the state goes but IS a conflict of interest according to school board bylaws... Now, there's another lawsuit being filed. This is truly too dramatic! (I'm still living in the city and paying taxes though...)
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PostJul 26, 2006#73

I am a new poster here so I do not know if this issue has been talked about before (it is a biggie), but I think the number one problem the City will have in attracting people is its public education system. A city cannot grow with just singles and retirees. Many families refuse to live in the city because of their poor education system. Although I do not have any answers, something needs to be done so our city will continue to grow even after this initial population boost.

-From a concerned St. Louisian
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PostJul 26, 2006#74

Good luck with that one. If you could solve it you win a medal and I'm sure everyone on this form would buy you a drink.



everyone has their own beleifs when it comes to the school system. Personally I've always felt that the union system is particualry ill suited for what is essentially a monopoly - public education. I'd be all for banning unions from public schools. In my view they tend to stifle innovation, protect incompetence and basically hinder the system's ability to replace poor teachers and demand excellence from those it does retain. Then I would instite a huge pay increase for all public school faculty and lock their pay raises to the CPI (hopefully dismissing concerns that they would be abused absent a union - or at the very least giving them somethign in exchange). Then I would get rid of the ass backward way in which no chold left behind measures our eductaional system, by eschewing the need to have ALL students test at a certain level and look rather at the aggregate performance. If a school can produce x percent of students in the upper perecntiles of subjects x,y and z then great. If they can produce a top notch math or arts department then they should get credit for that too. Basically, I would move more towards the ranking system used for universities .. and get away from a system that declares an entire system a faillure if a small minority of students simply refuse to learn. I suppose I would be advocating "leaving some children behind" because I believe that some kids just don;t care - that public school will always attract these people and that you can't force someone to learn or study if they simply don;t want to. And finally I would institute trackign in every subject - offering kids who really push themselves the adavnced courses to puch them even furtther ....



of course - none of this will ever happen. The unions are entrenched and the fed controls no child left behind .... but I think it would work.



and by the way - I'm not anti-union. I just don't beleive that unions work well in a monopoly (and no - private schools do not break the monopoly because "free eductaion" is the commodity were talkign about here).
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PostOct 18, 2006#75

Me neither, but I get exposed to one of the worst unions in the states on a regular basis.



This is from a 20/20 report: ABC "20/20" presented "Stupid in America: How We Cheat our Kids" with John Stossel on Sept. 1, 2006:



"In New York City, the teacher's union makes it so difficult to fire bad teachers (such as one who sent sexually explicit emails soliciting minor students, probably a crime in most or all states) that the school district warehouses them on full pay in "rubber rooms" in secret buildings

around New York City."



Follow this link to see what it takes to fire a teacher in NY, you would think it's a plan to invade Iraq. If I was competent enough to post pictures I would add it here. It's hilarious and SCARY.



http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/ ... 3850c.html



Can you imagine? Getting paid to sit around and read Vanity Fair all day because you are too scary to put in front of children but too protected by the Union to kick out on the street. What exactly are my tax dollars accomplishing here?



More articles about these rubber rooms can be found on the net. Here are some links to the ones I've read:



http://www.nycp.org/Web_News/General_Pa ... r%20Ax.htm



---------------------------------------------------------------



In AA and other groups like that they talk a lot about admitting you have a problem. I think public school adminstrators should stop blaming everybody else but themselves, their staff and their students. It's unfortunate but the WORST teachers and the WORST students are more likely than not to be in a system where they cannot be dismissed or expelled no matter what they do. Private schools will only put up with so much. Sooner or later the teacher and/or the student is out for unacceptable behavior. When you set the bar too low... Maybe it's not fair, and maybe ideals about giving EVERYBODY a chance will make it impossible to give a good 80% a better chance, but it seems a shame to me.



In that 20/20 report they profiled a company that wanted to get rid of 10% of their work force every year. They figured of every 10 employees we should get rid of 1 every year who shows the least promise. That way we will give everyone a big incentive to work hard and continue to improve the workforce. Obviously, sending that 10% to a room and keeping them on the payroll would defeat the purpose, right?



But thanks to the Teacher's Union that's exactly what happens in New York. I know the union does not speak for all teachers, but as far as the union goes, it's clear keeping jobs is more important than giving kids a good education. If a Fortune 500 company had to be run this way, it would go out of business within a year.



I realize it's a radical idea and would probably leave many without any real education at all, but I would support voucher systems and privitazation of all education. In this system the school gets paid by the government per each student enrolled. If the student is disruptive the school can kick them out. If the teacher doesn't cut it, hasta la vista.



Most of the employed world gets by without unions. My hot dog vendor isn't in a union. I'm not in a lawyer union. My sister isn't in a designer's union. My secretary isn't in a secretary's union. We manage.



Enough ranting. I love this website. What a chance to get a away.



And if you're going to tell me Unions rock, then at least agree that the rubber room situation is a big flaw in the union system.



-------------------------------

Now, after reading some more articles, it looks like some teachers are unfairly sent to the Rubber Room because of the politically correct state we live in where teachers can't be themselves because the school system will get sued. Just one more reason to blow up the whole system and follow through with private schools. If adminstrators are putting teachers in rubber rooms because they are afraid of getting sued for not acting on complaints, it's just as bad. It might not be the unions fault, but it just shows me this system can't be fixed. I see no need for a communist public school system in a capalist society. Down with public schools as we know them. That's what I think.
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