What about Rothman furniture?
What about Value City? Furniture store &/or clothing store.
What about Value City? Furniture store &/or clothing store.
- 667
mophipsi wrote:Off of the top of my head
Commerce Bank
Commerce Bank is based in KC, but Southwest Bank is based in STL, though there is also a Southwest Bank in DFW, Texas, but these banks aren't related.
SMSPlanstu wrote:What about Rothman furniture?
What about Value City? Furniture store &/or clothing store.
Value City I heard was based in Columbus Ohio or somewhere in Ohio.
Also TLC laser eye centers has its US operations based in STL, but their headquarters is in Toronto.
- 282
What bothers me about so many of these "St. Louis" companies are now many don't actually have a location in St. Louis. For example, we have no Dierbergs. Not that I am advocating a sprawling Deirbergs plaza...
I'd like to see a branch of Scottrade in the downtown area, currently I have to go to Clayton if I want to do something in person.
I would also like to see more of our local banks have their headquarters within the City of St. Louis. Can someone name any local bank in the city??? Southwest is out along Manchester. Pulaski is on Olive West of 270. Enterprise is in Clayton. People's bank, a new branch opening in the Paul Brown, is out of Illinois (and a very welcomed addition to downtown). Do we have a local bank headquartered in the city????
Even many real estate firms are located in the suburbs. Many well-known "city" agents work for firms located in the hinterlands rather than for brokerages in the city.
One of the firms located in the region that is franchising has the best marketing, The Crack Team: A Dry Crack is a Happy Crack. Foundation repair has never been so funny.
I'd like to see a branch of Scottrade in the downtown area, currently I have to go to Clayton if I want to do something in person.
I would also like to see more of our local banks have their headquarters within the City of St. Louis. Can someone name any local bank in the city??? Southwest is out along Manchester. Pulaski is on Olive West of 270. Enterprise is in Clayton. People's bank, a new branch opening in the Paul Brown, is out of Illinois (and a very welcomed addition to downtown). Do we have a local bank headquartered in the city????
Even many real estate firms are located in the suburbs. Many well-known "city" agents work for firms located in the hinterlands rather than for brokerages in the city.
One of the firms located in the region that is franchising has the best marketing, The Crack Team: A Dry Crack is a Happy Crack. Foundation repair has never been so funny.
If we are talking about Missouri Companies - AMC is based in KC - its the number 2 largest movie theater chain with location in the STL area. Shows what we are like in Missouri that AMC and Wehrenberg Theaters are based here in our state. Sadly they are completely dependant on Cali companies making good movies. We should use these corporate headquarters as justification to bring more movies here to film etc.
- 6,775
10-intuition wrote:Commerce Bank is based in KC, but Southwest Bank is based in STL, though there is also a Southwest Bank in DFW, Texas, but these banks aren't related.
Southwest Bank is no longer locally owned. It is a subsidiary of a bank in Milwaukee, IIRC.
- 5,433
Department Stores of St. Louis and Missouri, Past and Present:
(This is all from memory, so I apologize in advance if the exact dates are off. I've always been interested in traditional department stores...)
Saint Louis:
Famous-Barr: Well, at least the stores will bear their original names for two or three more months. The former May Company is now part of Federated Department Stores, which plans to convert all Famous-Barr stores into Macy's stores later this year. The downtown store in the Railway Exchange Building will remain open, and the building is now home to a regional headquarters for Federated, Macy's Midwest.
Stix, Baer & Fuller: Acquired by Dillard's Department Stores of Little Rock in 1983-84. The downtown store closed in 2001, after operating strictly as a clearance center for about three years. Currently part of Pyramid's plan for residential/retail redevelopment along with adjoining Saint Louis Centre. All suburban locations, with the exception of River Roads (closed in the mid-1980s) and Jamestown (closing this month) carry on with the Dillard's name.
Scruggs, Vandervoort, and Barney: Once considered STL's premier department store, it folded in 1967. Its flagship store was located in the Syndicate Trust & Century buildings on Olive between Ninth and Tenth streets. Suburban locations were named Vandervoort's, and also closed in 1967.
Kansas City:
The Jones Store- See also Famous-Barr. The stores formerly owned by May Company in Missouri and Kansas will become Macy's later this year. The downtown store closed in 1998.
John Taylor and Company- Acquired by Macy's in the 1940s. Macy's sold its Kansas City market stores to Dillard's in the mid-1980s, and Dillard's closed the downtown store in 1990, which was subsequently demolished for parking for an adjacent office tower.
Emory, Bird & Thayer: Folded in the late 1960s, and its downtown store was subsequently demolished.
Springfield:
Heer's (1869-1995): Like many smaller cities, Springfield had a few small department stores. Heer's was the region's dominant store, however, with merchandise and departments comparable to stores in larger cities. Its downtown store on Park Central Square remained open despite an exodus of neighboring businesses and shoppers to the city's malls in the 1970s and 1980s. Heer's also opened smaller stores in Battlefield and North Town malls in the 1970s while keeping its flagship open, and acquired Newman's of Joplin in the early 1980s. After mismanagement in the late 1980s (one of its local investors was convicted of fraud and embezzlement), Heer's closed all operations in early 1995.
The downtown Heer's is undergoing a massive transformation. Condos will occupy the upper floors, offices are being leased for the middle floors and basement, and the main floor and mezzanine levels will be home to restaurants and retail. The project is expected to be complete in mid-2007.
With the acquisition of May Company by Federated, and the ongoing transformation of Famous-Barr stores into Macy's, Missouri is losing its last major homegrown department store chain.
(This is all from memory, so I apologize in advance if the exact dates are off. I've always been interested in traditional department stores...)
Saint Louis:
Famous-Barr: Well, at least the stores will bear their original names for two or three more months. The former May Company is now part of Federated Department Stores, which plans to convert all Famous-Barr stores into Macy's stores later this year. The downtown store in the Railway Exchange Building will remain open, and the building is now home to a regional headquarters for Federated, Macy's Midwest.
Stix, Baer & Fuller: Acquired by Dillard's Department Stores of Little Rock in 1983-84. The downtown store closed in 2001, after operating strictly as a clearance center for about three years. Currently part of Pyramid's plan for residential/retail redevelopment along with adjoining Saint Louis Centre. All suburban locations, with the exception of River Roads (closed in the mid-1980s) and Jamestown (closing this month) carry on with the Dillard's name.
Scruggs, Vandervoort, and Barney: Once considered STL's premier department store, it folded in 1967. Its flagship store was located in the Syndicate Trust & Century buildings on Olive between Ninth and Tenth streets. Suburban locations were named Vandervoort's, and also closed in 1967.
Kansas City:
The Jones Store- See also Famous-Barr. The stores formerly owned by May Company in Missouri and Kansas will become Macy's later this year. The downtown store closed in 1998.
John Taylor and Company- Acquired by Macy's in the 1940s. Macy's sold its Kansas City market stores to Dillard's in the mid-1980s, and Dillard's closed the downtown store in 1990, which was subsequently demolished for parking for an adjacent office tower.
Emory, Bird & Thayer: Folded in the late 1960s, and its downtown store was subsequently demolished.
Springfield:
Heer's (1869-1995): Like many smaller cities, Springfield had a few small department stores. Heer's was the region's dominant store, however, with merchandise and departments comparable to stores in larger cities. Its downtown store on Park Central Square remained open despite an exodus of neighboring businesses and shoppers to the city's malls in the 1970s and 1980s. Heer's also opened smaller stores in Battlefield and North Town malls in the 1970s while keeping its flagship open, and acquired Newman's of Joplin in the early 1980s. After mismanagement in the late 1980s (one of its local investors was convicted of fraud and embezzlement), Heer's closed all operations in early 1995.
The downtown Heer's is undergoing a massive transformation. Condos will occupy the upper floors, offices are being leased for the middle floors and basement, and the main floor and mezzanine levels will be home to restaurants and retail. The project is expected to be complete in mid-2007.
With the acquisition of May Company by Federated, and the ongoing transformation of Famous-Barr stores into Macy's, Missouri is losing its last major homegrown department store chain.
Interesting post, ThreeOneFour. But how about Boyds (Boyd Richardson)? They had a pretty big store downtown...6 floors, took up half a block rather than a full block like the other three.
My mom used to speek of big store downtown called Nuggent's (probably back to the late 20's or 30's, when she was quite young). Also, I remember a big store called Sunnenfeld's (50's) but I don't remember if it was a full line department store or not.
All the big stores downtown honored one local credit card that was created for shopping downtown (can't remember the name, but I remember it was maroon colored card).
I used to find it odd that in Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney they had escalators only to the fourth floor. If you were going anywhere from the fifth to the seventh floor, you had to either take the stairs or the elevator.
I also used to like to enter the store through Jaccard's Jewelers which was also located in the Century Building (with the elaborate entrance, if you remember it). Jaccards shared a small portion of the first floor with the remainder of the block occupied by the department store.
My mom used to speek of big store downtown called Nuggent's (probably back to the late 20's or 30's, when she was quite young). Also, I remember a big store called Sunnenfeld's (50's) but I don't remember if it was a full line department store or not.
All the big stores downtown honored one local credit card that was created for shopping downtown (can't remember the name, but I remember it was maroon colored card).
I used to find it odd that in Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney they had escalators only to the fourth floor. If you were going anywhere from the fifth to the seventh floor, you had to either take the stairs or the elevator.
I also used to like to enter the store through Jaccard's Jewelers which was also located in the Century Building (with the elaborate entrance, if you remember it). Jaccards shared a small portion of the first floor with the remainder of the block occupied by the department store.
- 5,433
Marmar, your post is interesting as well...
I remember Boyd's- it was on the SE corner of Sixth and Olive, just across from Famous-Barr. IIRC, it was open at least through the late 1980s and was demolished for, of all things, a parking lot. Didn't they have mall stores as well?
I've heard of those two stores but don't know much about either one. I assume Nugent's was a full-line store like Famous, Stix, and Scruggs?
I was born seven years after SV&B closed. My mother and grandmother told me about shopping there, but never mentioned the lack of escalators beyond the fourth floor, which is quite odd. My memories of downtown in the pre-STL Centre days are a bit fuzzy, but wasn't Jaccards around downtown long after Scruggs closed?
I also remember that my mother and my grandmas were quite p*ssed when Dillard's bought Stix Baer & Fuller, because Dillard's significantly downsized the downtown store. It was very evident that little if any money was spent during the Dillard's era, save for the half-hearted effort to make Dillard's "blend" with the adjoining St. Louis Centre. Famous-Barr also embarked on this misguided effort of blending in with the mall, and there's still some evidence of this (the mirrored columns on floors 1-4 were the most obvious change).
Marmar wrote:Interesting post, ThreeOneFour. But how about Boyds (Boyd Richardson)? They had a pretty big store downtown...6 floors, took up half a block rather than a full block like the other three.
I remember Boyd's- it was on the SE corner of Sixth and Olive, just across from Famous-Barr. IIRC, it was open at least through the late 1980s and was demolished for, of all things, a parking lot. Didn't they have mall stores as well?
My mom used to speek of big store downtown called Nuggent's (probably back to the late 20's or 30's, when she was quite young). Also, I remember a big store called Sunnenfeld's (50's) but I don't remember if it was a full line department store or not.
I've heard of those two stores but don't know much about either one. I assume Nugent's was a full-line store like Famous, Stix, and Scruggs?
I used to find it odd that in Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney they had escalators only to the fourth floor. If you were going anywhere from the fifth to the seventh floor, you had to either take the stairs or the elevator. I also used to like to enter the store through Jaccard's Jewelers which was also located in the Century Building (with the elaborate entrance, if you remember it). Jaccards shared a small portion of the first floor with the remainder of the block occupied by the department store.
I was born seven years after SV&B closed. My mother and grandmother told me about shopping there, but never mentioned the lack of escalators beyond the fourth floor, which is quite odd. My memories of downtown in the pre-STL Centre days are a bit fuzzy, but wasn't Jaccards around downtown long after Scruggs closed?
I also remember that my mother and my grandmas were quite p*ssed when Dillard's bought Stix Baer & Fuller, because Dillard's significantly downsized the downtown store. It was very evident that little if any money was spent during the Dillard's era, save for the half-hearted effort to make Dillard's "blend" with the adjoining St. Louis Centre. Famous-Barr also embarked on this misguided effort of blending in with the mall, and there's still some evidence of this (the mirrored columns on floors 1-4 were the most obvious change).
- 10K
I'd love to see pictures of the Boyd's building, if anyone has some. I remember there being a Boyd's downtown, but I was still pretty young when it was in operation. The one I remember was at West County Mall.
Yes, I remember Boyds. It was a perfectly nice store and building and did not need to be destroyed for parking. When I was a kid, my aunt went to Boyd's downtown every year to buy me a wallet or hanky. It was always giftwrapped in a Boyd's box. Of course, I didn't get excited about wallets or hankerchiefs. But, my mother would remind me that Boyd's was a nice store and my Aunt bothered to take the bus downtown to buy me a gift. And then she would make me write a thank you note. At the time, the gifts meant little to me, but looking back now, the memory means a lot. I hate it when they destroy these places.
But, even as an adult, I remember going to Boyds downtown and the Schnucks nearby. Very handy to stop after work before boarding a bus home.
And yes, 314, a lot of people were not pleased when Stix became Dillards. Especially when Dillards downgraded the store into a crappy bargain basement. I used to know an old guy that refused to accept that Stix became Dillards. Whenever he made his credit card payment (he called it a charge plate), he wrote "Stix, Baer, & Fuller" as payee on the check and apparently, Dillards always cashed it.
People in St. Louis have long memories. I think it is because we are all in in mourning. Those who remember and those who never knew the city. The healing that we are experiencing today is very important.
But, even as an adult, I remember going to Boyds downtown and the Schnucks nearby. Very handy to stop after work before boarding a bus home.
And yes, 314, a lot of people were not pleased when Stix became Dillards. Especially when Dillards downgraded the store into a crappy bargain basement. I used to know an old guy that refused to accept that Stix became Dillards. Whenever he made his credit card payment (he called it a charge plate), he wrote "Stix, Baer, & Fuller" as payee on the check and apparently, Dillards always cashed it.
People in St. Louis have long memories. I think it is because we are all in in mourning. Those who remember and those who never knew the city. The healing that we are experiencing today is very important.
- 5,433
DeBaliviere wrote:I'd love to see pictures of the Boyd's building, if anyone has some. I remember there being a Boyd's downtown, but I was still pretty young when it was in operation. The one I remember was at West County Mall.
I'd like to see some pictures of Boyd's as well. I've also tried to find pictures of Stix Baer & Fuller while it was still in operation under that name, but I've had no luck so far. I don't think Stix's signage was nearly as prominent as Famous-Barr's (its rooftop signs and plaques between the display windows are really distinctive).
Expat, I bet plenty of people here will continue to write "Famous-Barr" on their checks to make payments on their "charge plates" long after the name change to Macy's becomes official. That's so Saint Louis.
Boyd's...no photo, but if my memory serves me right, it had the typical architectural look of a large department store, something like Famous Barr (white terra cotta) but not nearly as richly ornamented. There was a Boyd's in downtown Clayton, too, along with the beautiful moderne Famous Barr.
I was nearly livid when Dillards bought out Stix and I had seen what they had done to that store. When I walked in from the mall (and this was the first week they were open) I walked right back out. Everything was so piled up and it was soooo claustrophobic. They took it from eight floors to three. I said to myself then "they don't want people here. They have intentions of shuttering this store". I haven't been to Dillards since. I wonder, Expat, did you sense the claustrophobic feel? (And I'm not even claustrophobic.)
Ah, but the memories. The subway in Stix, where there was a restaurant under the street. And I remember when all the stores had real live elevator operators. I think SBF was the last to modernize their elevators.
Yes, ThreeOneFour, ask your mother and grandmother if they remember the escalators only going to the fourth floor. It was like that until the end. But I remember Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney well. My mom's china, our t.v. light (you probably don't even know what that is) and countless clothing and such came from this fine store, as well as the others.
I think those who are too young to remember downtown St. Louis from the 60's would be blown away if they could see how wonderful it was. Very big, and very urban. But I even remember it from the '50's, and it was even more so then because of the streetcars. People that go crazy over these cookie cutter malls don't even have a clue as to what they're missing, IMO.
I was nearly livid when Dillards bought out Stix and I had seen what they had done to that store. When I walked in from the mall (and this was the first week they were open) I walked right back out. Everything was so piled up and it was soooo claustrophobic. They took it from eight floors to three. I said to myself then "they don't want people here. They have intentions of shuttering this store". I haven't been to Dillards since. I wonder, Expat, did you sense the claustrophobic feel? (And I'm not even claustrophobic.)
Ah, but the memories. The subway in Stix, where there was a restaurant under the street. And I remember when all the stores had real live elevator operators. I think SBF was the last to modernize their elevators.
Yes, ThreeOneFour, ask your mother and grandmother if they remember the escalators only going to the fourth floor. It was like that until the end. But I remember Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney well. My mom's china, our t.v. light (you probably don't even know what that is) and countless clothing and such came from this fine store, as well as the others.
I think those who are too young to remember downtown St. Louis from the 60's would be blown away if they could see how wonderful it was. Very big, and very urban. But I even remember it from the '50's, and it was even more so then because of the streetcars. People that go crazy over these cookie cutter malls don't even have a clue as to what they're missing, IMO.
- 5,433
Marmar wrote:Boyd's...no photo, but if my memory serves me right, it had the typical architectural look of a large department store, something like Famous Barr (white terra cotta) but not nearly as richly ornamented. There was a Boyd's in downtown Clayton, too, along with the beautiful moderne Famous Barr.
A fuzzy image is coming back to me now that you mention the words 'terra cotta'. The Famous-Barr garage predates me, but I do know that the 600 block of Olive Street was once noted for its terra cotta which complemented the much larger Railway Exchange Building across the street. Obviously Famous-Barr benefited for many years by having convenient parking nearby, but it's a shame that more was not done to preserve that block, particularly Boyd's.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it May Company that bought the former Boyd's and demolished it for the surface lot we have today? (May Co execs made a lot of bad decisions over the years, so many that I'm surprised the downtown store has weathered all the storms.)
I was nearly livid when Dillards bought out Stix and I had seen what they had done to that store. When I walked in from the mall (and this was the first week they were open) I walked right back out. Everything was so piled up and it was soooo claustrophobic. They took it from eight floors to three. I said to myself then "they don't want people here. They have intentions of shuttering this store". I haven't been to Dillards since. I wonder, Expat, did you sense the claustrophobic feel? (And I'm not even claustrophobic.)
I was only eleven years old when the transition was made, and I remember being disappointed as well. Sure, my parents and grandparents were the ones doing the shopping, but to me department stores were like endless caverns to explore. I'd drag whoever took me with them to every floor of Famous and Stix whether or not they had any shopping to do on that level. So, I was equally disappointed by the drastic downsizing, albeit for different reasons.
I think those who are too young to remember downtown St. Louis from the 60's would be blown away if they could see how wonderful it was. Very big, and very urban. But I even remember it from the '50's, and it was even more so then because of the streetcars. People that go crazy over these cookie cutter malls don't even have a clue as to what they're missing, IMO.
I remember just enough of the late 1970s and early 1980s to have a mental image of downtown retail before St. Louis Centre literally sucked the life out of it.
At Famous-Barr, I remember the clearance center (I think it was "Going, Going, Gone!") in the basement of Famous-Barr, as well as the accompanying mezzanine (basement balcony in F-B speak). No visit for me was complete without a visit to the 8th floor for toys. Santaland would make mall Santas look absolutely pathetic. And I thank God that Papa Fabarre's is still open, and will be largely unchanged by Macy's in the short term at least. That place is such a time machine.
I suppose the loss of Dillard's and the other businesses within blocks of Famous-Barr was inevitable, but at least now we have a developer commited to undoing the egregious mistake that was St. Louis Centre. (And yes, I was very excited when it first opened, completely naive about the mall's eventual negative effect on downtown shopping.)
- 10K
I checked Built St. Louis for a photo of Boyd's and the other terra cotta buildings that once stood across Olive from Famous-Barr - looks like he had a picture at one point, but it now just shows a red X.
With May out of the picture, the city should persuade Federated to sell the building at 7th and Olive to a developer - it's been vacant for way too long.
With May out of the picture, the city should persuade Federated to sell the building at 7th and Olive to a developer - it's been vacant for way too long.
- 5,433
^ I agree. Federated has plenty of irons in the fire, so it seems like it'd be in their best interests to unload the property and focus on the Railway Exchange (the store and the Macy's Midwest regional HQ).
- 63
Well we all know stl centre was a failure, but i was interested in what you said about it sucking the retail life out of downtown. did you just mean perception-wise no one wanted to shop downtown at all anymore? i'm only 17 and dont get downtown much so i'm wondering how did downtown change with the intro of st louis centre? was it that much better in the late 70s early 80s? and this is kinda off topic but i think i've heard mention the streetcar system shut down in 66ish? when did ridership begin to decline to the level that the system was shut down entirely when from what i can tell of the above posts they were quite active during the 50s? sorry i know so little but for someone of my generation this sounds like an entirely different world...other than Famous and well Dillards, I'd never even heard of the other stores mentioned.
^Okay, first, rock...the streetcars were basically done away with in 1958, with the Hodiamont car remaining until 1966. The streetcars were not done away with because of lack of usage...at least from what I've heard and read, and I remember them always full...maybe someone else knows more about it, and I think someone posted the reason, but I can't remember. But it wasn't due to lack of ridership.
Second, downtown had begun to decline (started soon after they did away with the streetcars...hmmmmmmm...) from the 60's. Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney closed in 1967 (as mentioned before), and downtown started a noticeable slow downward spiral. Not enough was done by the city to keep it desireable. Sure, there were many efforts to bring back downtown...building new buildings, tearing down old ones to accomodate the auto by putting parking lots in. We've learned that an auto friendly downtown doesn't work, but that's where the mindset was then... auto friendly, like the suburbs. St. Louis is not alone in it's decline of downtown. In fact, we're lucky because we still have Famous & Barr. Many large cities have no large department stores left in their CBD's.
So, in an effort to bring downtown shopping back St. Louis Centre was built. And guess what? They made it auto friendly, ignoring the streets. Well, they found out the hard and expensive ways that people aren't going to come downtown amongst all the "bad" things associated with CBD's...traffic, polution, dirtiness, crime (whether real or imagined) etc., when they could go to a nice clean, area and the latest fancy schmancy mall. There really was no reason to come downtown to an inconvenient mall that offered nothing more, really, than any other large suburban mall. Hence, failure. It sucked the life out of downtown because it did not serve a downtown lifestyle...it was geared to drive to, go into, and leave, never to walk on the sidewalks of downtown. So, if you owned a restaurant or clothing store, where would you be...on one of the streets, or in the mall? It sucked the life out of downtown (can't say it enough).
We owe a great deal of gratitude to the young professionals and urbanites who have looked around to see that downtown St. Louis and the rest of the city offers so much more architecturally that all but a very few cities, and have decided to stay and invest.
For too long the urban lifestyle has been ignored here. St. Louis has as good or even better suburbs than most cities. What was lacking were good urban neighborhoods and city living, and especially the intense urban atmosphere that can only be found in a CBD like downtown St. Louis, because guess what...downtown St. Louis has the kind of architecture that can't be found in many cities that have passed us by. I'm happy that finally some have finally figured it out. Maybe, hopefully, St. Louis will pass the cities that have passed us. Goodness knows, we have many more reasons to pass them than they had to pass us.
Second, downtown had begun to decline (started soon after they did away with the streetcars...hmmmmmmm...) from the 60's. Scruggs, Vandervoort & Barney closed in 1967 (as mentioned before), and downtown started a noticeable slow downward spiral. Not enough was done by the city to keep it desireable. Sure, there were many efforts to bring back downtown...building new buildings, tearing down old ones to accomodate the auto by putting parking lots in. We've learned that an auto friendly downtown doesn't work, but that's where the mindset was then... auto friendly, like the suburbs. St. Louis is not alone in it's decline of downtown. In fact, we're lucky because we still have Famous & Barr. Many large cities have no large department stores left in their CBD's.
So, in an effort to bring downtown shopping back St. Louis Centre was built. And guess what? They made it auto friendly, ignoring the streets. Well, they found out the hard and expensive ways that people aren't going to come downtown amongst all the "bad" things associated with CBD's...traffic, polution, dirtiness, crime (whether real or imagined) etc., when they could go to a nice clean, area and the latest fancy schmancy mall. There really was no reason to come downtown to an inconvenient mall that offered nothing more, really, than any other large suburban mall. Hence, failure. It sucked the life out of downtown because it did not serve a downtown lifestyle...it was geared to drive to, go into, and leave, never to walk on the sidewalks of downtown. So, if you owned a restaurant or clothing store, where would you be...on one of the streets, or in the mall? It sucked the life out of downtown (can't say it enough).
We owe a great deal of gratitude to the young professionals and urbanites who have looked around to see that downtown St. Louis and the rest of the city offers so much more architecturally that all but a very few cities, and have decided to stay and invest.
For too long the urban lifestyle has been ignored here. St. Louis has as good or even better suburbs than most cities. What was lacking were good urban neighborhoods and city living, and especially the intense urban atmosphere that can only be found in a CBD like downtown St. Louis, because guess what...downtown St. Louis has the kind of architecture that can't be found in many cities that have passed us by. I'm happy that finally some have finally figured it out. Maybe, hopefully, St. Louis will pass the cities that have passed us. Goodness knows, we have many more reasons to pass them than they had to pass us.
- 63
thank you Marmar, that was interesting but sad. i agree, we do owe the young professionals and urbanites and are fortunate indeed to still have the Famous/Macy's. Hopefully with a larger proportion of young professionals with more disposable income moving in we shall see an upgrade in the Macy's to the lines they sell on the east coast and who know's, maybe even more big stores.
Interesting about the streetcars. I shall try to research this. I wonder if other downtowns tried something like st. louis centre
Interesting about the streetcars. I shall try to research this. I wonder if other downtowns tried something like st. louis centre
DeBaliviere wrote:I checked Built St. Louis for a photo of Boyd's and the other terra cotta buildings that once stood across Olive from Famous-Barr -
I know we're straying off-topic, but I think there's something about the Olive Street Terra Cotta Distrct in St. Louis Landmarks and Historic Districts. Unfortunately, all my books are packed away right now, so I can't look it up.
- 5,433
rockintheburbsTC wrote:Well we all know stl centre was a failure, but i was interested in what you said about it sucking the retail life out of downtown. did you just mean perception-wise no one wanted to shop downtown at all anymore? i'm only 17 and dont get downtown much so i'm wondering how did downtown change with the intro of st louis centre?
TC, you ask great questions.
And Marmar, I thank you for answering those questions pretty much as I would have. You covered all the bases!
The concept of St. Louis Centre dates back to the early 1970s, even though construction didn't begin until a decade later. It may have seemed like a good idea to bridge downtown's (then) two department stores by offering a wide array of stores and restaurants under one roof free of the real/perceived negatives that Marmar mentioned, but more people inside the mall meant fewer people on the streets.
Storefront vacancies in downtown increased dramatically, some directly as the tenants relocated to the mall, others as similar businesses inside siphoned customers away.
At one time St. Louis Centre was home to higher-end stores like The Sharper Image and Brooks Brothers, along with mainstays like The Gap and Abercrombie and Fitch. When Westroads in Richmond Heights expanded to create Saint Louis Galleria in 1991 just 6-7 miles to the west, many of these recognizable tenants vacated Saint Louis Centre.
It didn't really matter all that much, because this cycle was already in place by the end of the 1980s. The newness wore off as people found a similar mix of stores at most area malls as they did in downtown, without the hassles of paying to park or driving to downtown in the first place. Famous-Barr, and especially Dillard's, reduced their selling space and offered fewer departments and services downtown. And both retailers gave flagship status to their Galleria locations when they opened. (FYI- The local Famous/Macy's flagship is now the West County Center store. Hopefully Federated will reconsider that decision at some point.)
Other cities have tried indoor malls in their downtowns, and most have met fates similar to that of St. Louis Centre. One notable exception is Circle Centre in Indianapolis, developed by the same people responsible for Saint Louis Centre.
It can be said that in some ways that Simon Properties, based in Indianapolis, learned from their mistakes in St. Louis when they planned something similar for their hometown. First, they attracted anchors with no prior presence in Indy (Nordstrom and Parisian). Parisian filled part of the vacated L.S. Ayres department store, and existing downtown facades were used to create storefront businesses, preserve some of downtown's character, and offer many entrances into the mall. Many specialty stores there cannot be found elsewhere in the market, and there are cultural options (Artsgarden) and entertainment venues (Gameworks, among others). Parking is ridiculously cheap, and in fairness, the mall benefits from other nearby retailers in a downtown that's rather compact and has many workers.
Framer- I have that book, so I'm going to look up the Terra Cotta District when I get the chance. It's very unfortunate that most of it is gone.
Marmar, yes, I experienced the same claustrophobic feeling at Dillards. I never bought anything at Dillards, the atmosphere was too depressing and it was piled up just as you say. I couldn't stand it. The store at Westroads was better, but I didn't bother going there either.
I don't remember shopping at Scruggs, but remember people always complaining about its closure. A topic at the dinner table, as if it were a pivotal act, and maybe it was. It would usually come up in conversation about eliminating the streetcars and other milestones. These things always came up with adults at big family gatherings. And I do know what a TV light is, my grandmother had one.
Do you remember Lammert's on Washington? My mother got her dining room furniture there in the 1960s. Sorry if this is getting off topic as we go down memory lane.
If anyone would like to see Famous Barr Southtown in a motion picture, get a copy of the The Great St. Louis Bank Robbery with Steve McQueen. There is a scene with Famous Southtown in the background, as well as several scenes of Southwest Bank inside and out, and other places. Not a good movie, but interesting to St. Louis fanatics. In one scene, a bank robber went out the front door of the bank using a woman as a shield from the police. That woman looked exactly like my mother back then, same glasses, hair etc. I could have sworn it was her. I got the movie a couple of weeks ago for around $5.00.
I think it is important to say something. Despite all this complaining about loss and the golden days of St. Louis, we must realize and celebrate that St. Louis is in a new golden age. It amazes me that people are complaining about too many upscale ladies shops & decor shops dowtown. Such a wonderful thing to complain about! We have come a long way baby.
I don't remember shopping at Scruggs, but remember people always complaining about its closure. A topic at the dinner table, as if it were a pivotal act, and maybe it was. It would usually come up in conversation about eliminating the streetcars and other milestones. These things always came up with adults at big family gatherings. And I do know what a TV light is, my grandmother had one.
Do you remember Lammert's on Washington? My mother got her dining room furniture there in the 1960s. Sorry if this is getting off topic as we go down memory lane.
If anyone would like to see Famous Barr Southtown in a motion picture, get a copy of the The Great St. Louis Bank Robbery with Steve McQueen. There is a scene with Famous Southtown in the background, as well as several scenes of Southwest Bank inside and out, and other places. Not a good movie, but interesting to St. Louis fanatics. In one scene, a bank robber went out the front door of the bank using a woman as a shield from the police. That woman looked exactly like my mother back then, same glasses, hair etc. I could have sworn it was her. I got the movie a couple of weeks ago for around $5.00.
I think it is important to say something. Despite all this complaining about loss and the golden days of St. Louis, we must realize and celebrate that St. Louis is in a new golden age. It amazes me that people are complaining about too many upscale ladies shops & decor shops dowtown. Such a wonderful thing to complain about! We have come a long way baby.
Yes, I remember Lammert's very well, Expat. I had to pass it every time I took the bus downtown, because the stop was at 10th and Washington, right next to Curlee Clothing. Many times I'd stop and window shop. The beautiful desk I inherited from my aunt came from Lammerts (1940's) among several other pieces of furniture. Lammerts had what, 6 floors, as I seem to remember?
I also fondly remember the womens shoe store (either Baker's or Kay King?) where you had to enter via a wide black slate stair down from the sidewalk to enter the submerged store (of course, it was in a multi storied building's basement). It had shinny brass railing, with all that black slate...very chic and sophisticated looking. I think this store might have been a victim of St. Louis Centre.
I remember many of the stores. Brooks Brothers, Botany 500, and one of my favorite, National Shirt Shop, on Olive directly accross from Famous and next to the Forum Cafeteria (where I would always get their breaded pork chops...delicious!! Every big city seems to have had a Forum Cafeteria downtown.) I bough a Beatles jacket at NSS in 1964, and I think I still have it....hah hah!!!
I couldn't agree with you more on your last paragraph, but it's so much fun to reminisce, though I must admit I so lament. I sure miss the old days, but I realize they're gone, and it's time to move on. Perhaps some day within my lifetime downtown will again be the major place for shopping and commerce and suburbs again become bedroom communites. It seems to me as if this is already in happening in other cities to various extents with all the interest in urban living. A sign of things to come? I, for one, hope.
I also fondly remember the womens shoe store (either Baker's or Kay King?) where you had to enter via a wide black slate stair down from the sidewalk to enter the submerged store (of course, it was in a multi storied building's basement). It had shinny brass railing, with all that black slate...very chic and sophisticated looking. I think this store might have been a victim of St. Louis Centre.
I remember many of the stores. Brooks Brothers, Botany 500, and one of my favorite, National Shirt Shop, on Olive directly accross from Famous and next to the Forum Cafeteria (where I would always get their breaded pork chops...delicious!! Every big city seems to have had a Forum Cafeteria downtown.) I bough a Beatles jacket at NSS in 1964, and I think I still have it....hah hah!!!
I couldn't agree with you more on your last paragraph, but it's so much fun to reminisce, though I must admit I so lament. I sure miss the old days, but I realize they're gone, and it's time to move on. Perhaps some day within my lifetime downtown will again be the major place for shopping and commerce and suburbs again become bedroom communites. It seems to me as if this is already in happening in other cities to various extents with all the interest in urban living. A sign of things to come? I, for one, hope.
Marmar wrote:It seems to me as if this is already in happening in other cities to various extents with all the interest in urban living. A sign of things to come? I, for one, hope.
It has been happening in most older cities for at least the last 15 years.
^On different levels and in different terms, longer than that. To say that urban living trend is new in St. Louis is definately false...even to say 15 years ago it was not happening is false...it simply recently has gained more momentum with larger developers getting involved, hence grabbing more attention. The first house to be rehabbed in Lafayette Square was completed in 1968 and just a few years later there was much rehab going on. The early 80's saw infill. Ditto Soulard.
Chicago, too, had much rehabbing starting around the same time, from what I know about it, perhaps earlier. And in the early 80's I noticed a definate urban trend there. The first condo tower (Ontario Place) was the first to rise and be topped out in 1983 in an area of River North that was previously empty lots but is today surrounded by many highrise condos.
My point is that the suburban way of life just may become a thing of the past, for the most part, and the central city will be the desireable place to live for the majority. Sorry if I was not clear on that point.
Chicago, too, had much rehabbing starting around the same time, from what I know about it, perhaps earlier. And in the early 80's I noticed a definate urban trend there. The first condo tower (Ontario Place) was the first to rise and be topped out in 1983 in an area of River North that was previously empty lots but is today surrounded by many highrise condos.
My point is that the suburban way of life just may become a thing of the past, for the most part, and the central city will be the desireable place to live for the majority. Sorry if I was not clear on that point.
jlblues wrote:Marmar wrote:It seems to me as if this is already in happening in other cities to various extents with all the interest in urban living. A sign of things to come? I, for one, hope.
It has been happening in most older cities for at least the last 15 years.
It has been happening in St. Louis well over 15 years. But, it is just now hitting downtown. The strength of St. Louis has always been in the neigbhorhoods, but I am glad that Downtown is seeing it now.