St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

bikinʹ_man · PostJun 22, 2008#6262008-06-22T23:03+00:00

*As of right now, flights to low yielding vacation destinations such as LAS, TPA and MCO

so does that mean they are gone all together?

but overall, good.

just if only there was a denver route... too bad they ditched it. i don't like arriving on D. it's sad to see all the rusted gates there.

also i see a flight to st maarten on the oneworld map. when did this start?

stlmo314 · PostJun 23, 2008#6272008-06-23T01:04+00:00

I guess St. Louis' location in the center of the country is seeing its advantages. One of the reasons (besides obviously that we were already downgraded in 2003) that flight cuts aren't as bad as elsewhere could be that due to St. Louis' location is we aren't too far from anywhere, so there aren't the fuel costs from STL as there are from coasts. Could work to STL's advantage as the price of fuel keeps on rising.

bprop · PostJun 23, 2008#6282008-06-23T19:01+00:00

^ I don't get that logic at all. Isn't it about where the travelers are vs. where they want to go?

stlmo314 · PostJun 23, 2008#6292008-06-23T20:28+00:00

What I mean is that due to STL's location in the center of the country, there really aren't flights that are more than 3 hours or so, while if you live along a coast, flying to the other side of the country could be between 5 and 6 hours and waste almost twice as much fuel. Since the cost of fuel is so high right now, many of the flights being cut are likely to be flights that burn a lot of fuel because they're cost prohibitive.

zink · PostJun 23, 2008#6302008-06-23T21:12+00:00

STLMO314 brings a good point.

I wonder at what price of Jetfuel it would be cheaper for Airlines to STOP OVER in St. Louis to refuel rather than carrying the extra couple thousand pounds of jetfuel to fly direct.

You figure a coast to coast 737 will have to hold an extra 2000 gallons to go direct rather than stopping off in STL.

Sure, that will be the day when all is lost, but for such airlines as Southwest who already makes a lot of stops... it could be in their benefit.

10-intuition · PostJun 23, 2008#6312008-06-23T23:14+00:00

^ didn't they do that back in the early days for commercial aviation/jet age? I thought airlines refueled B707, B727, DC9, and early model B737s half away in the middle for flights from say NYC to SFO. However, these days most airplanes are more fuel efficient and are able to travel non-stop across the country than they were 30 years ago. This is something they ought to consider since a full tank of fuel is heavy.

mill204 · PostJun 23, 2008#6322008-06-23T23:59+00:00

^ Except that the cost of flying at 30,000 ft is cheap compared to the cost of ascending to 30,000 ft. IOW, there's no point to land and takeoff again just to save a few pounds in fuel.

survivor147 · PostJun 24, 2008#6332008-06-24T17:05+00:00

Does anyone have any routes that are NOT direct out of STL that they'd like to see happen anytime in the near future?

Personally, I would like to see a route to Portland OR & Reno NV since I frequently travel there.

jcity · PostJun 25, 2008#6342008-06-25T04:53+00:00

London, or now, maybe Brussels?

throatybeard · PostJun 25, 2008#6352008-06-25T09:31+00:00

Survivor147 wrote:Does anyone have any routes that are NOT direct out of STL that they'd like to see happen anytime in the near future?

Unfortunately, we're losing (have already lost?) our non-stop on American to RDU. Southwest's only North Carolina airport is RDU, but we don't have a non-stop (change at BWI). So the only place in the tenth most populous state in the union you can fly to nonstop out of STL is CLT. I fly to GSO all the time because my parents live near Winston-Salem.

That said, I'm not a huge non-stop chauvinist, because I fly just barely enough to achieve Delta silver medallion, so I need all those extra legs thru CVG and ATL to make status. If AA had a nonstop to GSO, I wouldn't make elite.

A non-stop on Southwest to BHM or JAN would be swell, but again, I'm not holding my breath.

survivor147 · PostJun 25, 2008#6362008-06-25T14:42+00:00

I second that non-stop to London. Preferably more than one a day!

Perhaps if the China deal comes through, we might get to go there again? Which terminal would be the international one at lambert?

10-intuition · PostJun 25, 2008#6372008-06-25T15:08+00:00

The end of Concourse C would be international since it was international before with TWA. There is also customs and immigrations in the basement.

bikinʹ_man · PostJun 25, 2008#6382008-06-25T15:47+00:00

i thought it was at the end of D. that is where the international flights are now with usa3000 and charter flights.

bprop · PostJun 25, 2008#6392008-06-25T20:09+00:00

American Airlines and its affiliates will cut 43 daily departures from St. Louis this fall, the airline said a short time ago.

...

The figure of 43 flights cut includes some which have already taken effect. As of June 5, American ran 145 daily flights from St. Louis. By November, when the cuts announced today will take effect, it will have 116.

innov8ion · PostJun 25, 2008#6402008-06-25T23:28+00:00

Direct service will be cut to Orange County, Calif., Baltimore, Md., Columbus, Ohio, and New York’s JFK International Airport. Other routes will see frequencies cut back, and in some cases American Airlines flights will be replaced with smaller planes flown by affiliates.

Losing OC isn't so bad if there are still nonstops to LAX but I'm not sure if that's the case. Same with JFK and New York.... Not overly conducive for business I imagine.

bprop · PostJun 25, 2008#6412008-06-25T23:41+00:00

except when you have to fly through JFK to fly international. I think STL-JFK is all RJs, and the last few times I've been there, they've been packed full.

jlblues · PostJun 25, 2008#6422008-06-25T23:48+00:00

JCity wrote:...or now, maybe Brussels?

Yeah, but it'd probably only be a one-way flight...

10-intuition · PostJun 26, 2008#6432008-06-26T04:28+00:00

innov8ion wrote:
Direct service will be cut to Orange County, Calif., Baltimore, Md., Columbus, Ohio, and New York’s JFK International Airport. Other routes will see frequencies cut back, and in some cases American Airlines flights will be replaced with smaller planes flown by affiliates.
Losing OC isn't so bad if there are still nonstops to LAX but I'm not sure if that's the case. Same with JFK and New York.... Not overly conducive for business I imagine.

IMO John Wayne/OC Airport (SNA) is better than LAX, its easier to get in and out of than LAX, but I guess with the 1-2 twice daily AA had flying to the OC and the reduction of their MD-80 fleet this flight had to go. Now it leaves me only the choice of flying to LAX from STL whenever I goto LA. These OC flights were moderately packed to jammed pack on the flights I've taken.

I am surprised theyre getting rid of JFK flights considering the ones I've been on they've been packed.

billkn · PostJun 26, 2008#6442008-06-26T12:00+00:00

zink wrote:STLMO314 brings a good point.

I wonder at what price of Jetfuel it would be cheaper for Airlines to STOP OVER in St. Louis to refuel rather than carrying the extra couple thousand pounds of jetfuel to fly direct.

You figure a coast to coast 737 will have to hold an extra 2000 gallons to go direct rather than stopping off in STL.

Sure, that will be the day when all is lost, but for such airlines as Southwest who already makes a lot of stops... it could be in their benefit.

Unless you have a guarantee to fill both segments with high yielding passengers, the additional landing fees and taxes, plus adding another takeoff /landing cycle would outweigh any potential savings.

I am surprised theyre getting rid of JFK flights considering the ones I've been on they've been packed.

A full flight is no indication that the flight is profitable, especially on a regional jet. Profitability is dependent on how much passengers paid, not the net passenger number. If it took selling tickets at highly discounted economy fares in order to fill that aircraft, there's a strong possibility the flight is still operating in the red. The revenue on the SNA flight is $.087 per available seat mile. That's very poor.

Overall I think the cuts are subdued. I would not have been surprised to see more LAS, MCO, TPA type leisure destinations disappear.

matguy70 · PostJun 30, 2008#6452008-06-30T17:22+00:00

Thursday, June 26, 2008

Southwest Airlines adds St. Louis-Fort Myers flight as it tweaks schedule.

St. Louis Business Journal

Southwest Airlines Co. announced Thursday it is adding a new nonstop flight between St. Louis and Fort Myers, Fla., beginning Nov. 2.

The airline is offering a $69 one-way, 14-day advance purchase fare for the flight for travel from Nov. 2 through the end of the schedule Jan. 9, 2009.

Dallas-based Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) said it will revamp its schedule, adding services in 40 markets and reducing services in 31 others. The company said it will accommodate these new services with two aircraft that it previously planned to retire.

The changes come after Southwest examined each market to determine how to best improve customer demand and profitability, the release said.

The airline's CEO, Gary Kelly, says that despite cutting services in some cities, Southwest is overall an exception in the tumultuous airline industry.

READ MORE:

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stor ... ily71.html

dredger · PostJun 30, 2008#6462008-06-30T19:49+00:00

I think Southwest has stayed out of trouble in part by staying away from RJ's. Of course, being selective in staying away from the smaller airports also helps. But, could only agree that a full RJ is not a sign of a profitable flight where as I just got off a Southwest flight, STL to BWI, that was 2/3 to 3/4 full. The greater number passengers must make this a much more cost effective flight.

survivor147 · PostJul 01, 2008#6472008-07-01T17:10+00:00

This was a comment underneath that article...

American Airlines has held all of the D Concourse gates "hostage" since they signed on at Lambert to have one of their hubs there (w/minor exception for some of the charter flights). Next time you are at Lambert, check out the "vacant" D Concourse! American has all of the D Concourse leased and have refused to let other airlines use any of the D Gates...brutal way to hold back your competetion! Even with SW Airlines adding more flights from STL, and even if they could begin using some of the easternmost gates on D Concourse and get SW Pax boarding gates down there vs going through the already congested C-D TSA checkpoint where American is, it still would NOT help the chokepoint

That's totally SHADY if that's true. Thoughts?

throatybeard · PostJul 01, 2008#6482008-07-01T18:11+00:00

Yes, no RJs for Southwest. Another smart thing Southwest does (besides the fuel hedging I'm sure we'll all aware of) is they stick to a fairly uniform fleet, so they don't have to maintain umpteen different kinds of metal.

survivor147 · PostJul 01, 2008#6492008-07-01T20:46+00:00

I've noticed in the East Terminal that the far left hand side (west side) that there is a ton of construction. Are they building more gates, preferably for Southwest? I would love that. I'm assuming that will be a restaurant or a store, am I right?

What used to be in the east terminal before SW?

jlblues · PostJul 01, 2008#6502008-07-01T21:10+00:00

Survivor147 wrote:I've noticed in the East Terminal that the far left hand side (west side) that there is a ton of construction. Are they building more gates, preferably for Southwest? I would love that. I'm assuming that will be a restaurant or a store, am I right?

What used to be in the east terminal before SW?

I think the construction is for the new retail space. The East Terminal has always been solely for Southwest gates. That is why it was built.

St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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