urbanSTL

Yes, I understand that an airport modernization project doesn't magically change things but it is a step in a lot of steps.   Nor do I see it as aggressive expansion.  In fact, I see it as replacing older less desireable gates with something better suited for the long term as well as adding more desireable amenities that add revenues from short term/on site parking to hotel, etc..  

Heck, my thoughts don't even come close to what a lot of airports have done or currently doing.  Nor do I think a first floor with option of a second story add on is meaningful in the long term.  Yes, it will address some short term concerns but what T2 was designed to accommodate and what they are doing to get by is exactly that, getting by for another day.

Here is from the Nashville airport website which I would consider a peer city on where I'm trying to go with my thoughts.

bnavisionnashville.com/

Here is from the Austin airport page which I would consider another peer city as well.  

http://www.abiamasterplan.com/wp-conten ... 5_18-2.pdf

Facts About ABIA Since 2014, ABIA has undergone $466 million in expansions through improvements in parking, terminal and taxiway expansion.
 
ABIA continued to experience robust passenger traffic in 2017 with a record 13.8 million travelers, up more than 11.5 percent from 2016.
ABIA is now the 35th busiest airport for total passengers in the United States. Annual passenger total increased by 7 percent between 2009 and 2016

Austin and Nashville are also expanding because their airports are out of gates. They have to expand to add service. Austin has some crazy long jetways trying to deal with it. 

Austin/Nashville also don't have a city taking 6 mil a year out of the income pool like STL does. I would argue STL is still self staining though. They are playing down debt so it isn't like they are adding to it. Both Nashville, Austin, and KC for that matter are going to have a bunch of debt after these renovations and fees that will be higher than STL to the airlines. 

Now I do think STL could make some improvements and they are. There are some big things I would love to see (ie consolidated rental facility at the North Hanley metro station) but they won't do anything until this privatization thing is figured out. The director has basically said their hands are tied on big expenses until a decision is made on it. They won't even do a new long term vision until it is done because it would "deter bidders" or something like that. 

I personally see the T2 baggage thing as more than a short term fix. Doubles the amount of baggage they can handle at once. That should last them a long time.  

At this point how much longer is the runway debt service going to last? Since it seems like its on the tail end at this point. Also its worth noting how fast the fees are falling for planes at this point? How do the fees compare to other airports, particularly ones of similar size and within a few hundred miles?

Get the sense that the privatization discussion is freezing a lot of things and also could be concerning to airlines in not wanting to do or announce anything until its cleared. Just seems like its dragging on a lot with no conclusion, which sounds like most debates in the area.

imperialmog wrote: At this point how much longer is the runway debt service going to last? Since it seems like its on the tail end at this point. 

Per the city's website, it appears Lambert had about $630 million in revenue bonds outstanding as of June, 2018.  It's hard to tell which bonds are from the expansion vs other efforts, but the current set of bonds expire between 2023 & 2047.

You may be able to determine which sets of bonds are for the expansion vs. other activities by reading through the links contained here:

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... irport.cfm

My best guess is that there is about $315 million outstanding for the runway expansion (Series 2005 & 2017A).

matguy70 wrote:

St. Louis doesn't have the anywhere near the population or job growth that Nashville and Austin do.

CSAs
STL 3,000,000 Metro
AUSTIN 2,000,000 Metro
NASH 1,900,000

Original post talked about growth, not levels. St Louis is still larger but the pop and job growth prospects are much worse.

Anyone else notice American seems to have moved up all their late night arrivals to STL?  I used to be able to connect through DFW/ORD/CLT while leaving the east coast around 7:30-8:00 and land in STL around 11:30-midnight.  After next week it seams the latest arrivals into STL are all 9:30-9:45.  Makes connecting through a hub from the east coast impossible unless I leave at 3:30EST. 

matguy70 wrote:

St. Louis doesn't have the anywhere near the population or job growth that Nashville and Austin do.

CSAs
STL 3,000,000 Metro
AUSTIN 2,000,000 Metro
NASH 1,900,000

Peer city in terms of competition.   St. Louis is not competing against Chicoga, New York, Wash DC Metro area and the large coastal cities for the next world HQ.  Its competing against the likes of Nashville and Austin where the likes of Apple and Amazon or putting a lot jobs in their metro regions for various reasons.  

My argument is STL Lambert has been about piece meal additions to the existing house for decades now...   I get it to use a phrase, it has plenty of gates, why tear down what still can be used, its affordable and so on.   But the reality is once and in a while you need a One Hundred, a new Centene tower and or a Two Cardinal Way along with a new Loews Hotel...  I think that goes the same for infrasctructure.   

I will quit with my ramblings about Concourse D teardown and a grand vision for another day.  

pmt257 wrote: Anyone else notice American seems to have moved up all their late night arrivals to STL?  I used to be able to connect through DFW/ORD/CLT while leaving the east coast around 7:30-8:00 and land in STL around 11:30-midnight.  After next week it seams the latest arrivals into STL are all 9:30-9:45.  Makes connecting through a hub from the east coast impossible unless I leave at 3:30EST. 

It does seem like some later flights have been removed from the schedule, but later flights are still scheduled from PHL, LGA & MIA from the east coast as well as LAX from the West Coast.

The most likely reason for these cuts are the grounding of the 737MAX aircraft which is impacting about 100 flights a day in American's network.  They have now changed schedules through August to account for the grounding of the aircraft.  While AA did not send the 737MAX to STL, it is possible that lower volume flights may have been cut to provide for having enough aircraft to cover the schedule.  We'll have to see if those flights get added back in the fall.

The current AA management is also much more focused on early morning flying than before the USAirways merger.  You'd never see 5am departures out of STL before and (up until this schedule change) now there are several.

gregl wrote:

pmt257 wrote: Anyone else notice American seems to have moved up all their late night arrivals to STL?  I used to be able to connect through DFW/ORD/CLT while leaving the east coast around 7:30-8:00 and land in STL around 11:30-midnight.  After next week it seams the latest arrivals into STL are all 9:30-9:45.  Makes connecting through a hub from the east coast impossible unless I leave at 3:30EST. 

It does seem like some later flights have been removed from the schedule, but later flights are still scheduled from PHL, LGA & MIA from the east coast as well as LAX from the West Coast.

The most likely reason for these cuts are the grounding of the 737MAX aircraft which is impacting about 100 flights a day in American's network.  They have now changed schedules through August to account for the grounding of the aircraft.  While AA did not send the 737MAX to STL, it is possible that lower volume flights may have been cut to provide for having enough aircraft to cover the schedule.  We'll have to see if those flights get added back in the fall.

The current AA management is also much more focused on early morning flying than before the USAirways merger.  You'd never see 5am departures out of STL before and (up until this schedule change) now there are several.

Great point I had not thought of that. All of those flights I regularly am on are all -800.

From my regional connections only CLT/ORD and sometimes DFW are options.

Anyone recently been in Concourse B?
Also, back when TWA used it, what type of planes did they park there? Looking at google earth images from 96, There appears to be some jetways. I thought only small turboprops served B. Was it overflow?

Those DC-9s in the foreground? That's a taxiway, not a parking pad. I do believe that's the takeoff cue. (And the DC-9 and 727 behind it appear to be waiting for gates. Man, I don't think I've ever seen a takeoff cue extending that deep into an airport essentially since. Anywhere on earth. Not Tokyo. Not Shanghai. Not Hong Kong. Not O' Hare. Not Midway. Not San Francisco. Not Laguardia. Not anywhere. But I surely remember sitting and waiting for bloody ever in 1992 right here in river city. Lambert was the place. *Sigh* Man, I miss all that Chili Pepper red.

To be fair, I don't think the cue was usually quite that bad. But if you look very closely you can see the takeoff cue snaking down Bravo in the distance and then turning right onto Victor at the very far end of the picture, which means it's probably on Charlie in the foreground, so as to let planes back out from the "Charlie" gates. The dusty orange looking Southwest 737 looks to be on 24, which makes me think it was the active that day. Which makes this clear, bright, sunny, perfect day a one-runway day. And this is probably the mid-morning rush, given the direction and length of the shadows. That takeoff cue is almost three miles long.

Another interesting note: There's a silver 747 parked over on what was, I believe, the Sierra pad way in the distance. I swear, I always saw a 747 there in the early 90s, every time I was driving past or going out to the airport for one reason or the other.

Anyway, heck of a picture. Thanks for that.

Frontier also ran out of B at one point.

jshank83 wrote: Frontier also ran out of B at one point.

That was during the post-tornado period when C was closed.  AirTran also used B during that time.

Thought I’d post this here that I recently talked to a pilot who was just hired by Alaska Airlines and during his training they asked him if he would be willing to relocate to St. Louis if need be. They specifically mentioned St. Louis, and not just a generic “Midwest.”

Now, there is a good chance nothing will come of that. But the fact they asked him must mean that Lambert is at least on their list for expansion. They just bought Virgin and are one of the highest rated airlines in the U.S.

They are largely based on the West Coast, but as they look toward more East Coast and International flights, St. Louis could be a good spot for them.




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SeattleNative wrote: Thought I’d post this here that I recently talked to a pilot who was just hired by Alaska Airlines and during his training they asked him if he would be willing to relocate to St. Louis if need be. They specifically mentioned St. Louis, and not just a generic “Midwest.”

Now, there is a good chance nothing will come of that. But the fact they asked him must mean that Lambert is at least on their list for expansion. They just bought Virgin and are one of the highest rated airlines in the U.S.

They are largely based on the West Coast, but as they look toward more East Coast and International flights, St. Louis could be a good spot for them.




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Did you also make a similar post about this issue on Reddit?  The only reason I ask is because there was a thread about this on Reddit a few months ago.   IF you're NOT the same poster, than this would be the second such story coming out of Alaska Airlines training -- and, as such, it would carry some weight.  Otherwise, the Reddit thread was posted here, in its entirety, several pages back.

frequentflyer wrote:

SeattleNative wrote: Thought I’d post this here that I recently talked to a pilot who was just hired by Alaska Airlines and during his training they asked him if he would be willing to relocate to St. Louis if need be. They specifically mentioned St. Louis, and not just a generic “Midwest.”

Now, there is a good chance nothing will come of that. But the fact they asked him must mean that Lambert is at least on their list for expansion. They just bought Virgin and are one of the highest rated airlines in the U.S.

They are largely based on the West Coast, but as they look toward more East Coast and International flights, St. Louis could be a good spot for them.




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Did you also make a similar post about this issue on Reddit?  The only reason I ask is because there was a thread about this on Reddit a few months ago.   IF you're NOT the same poster, than this would be the second such story coming out of Alaska Airlines training -- and, as such, it would carry some weight.  Otherwise, the Reddit thread was posted here, in its entirety, several pages back.

I am the same poster. Didn’t see that it was linked. Sorry about that.


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SeattleNative wrote:

frequentflyer wrote:

SeattleNative wrote: Thought I’d post this here that I recently talked to a pilot who was just hired by Alaska Airlines and during his training they asked him if he would be willing to relocate to St. Louis if need be. They specifically mentioned St. Louis, and not just a generic “Midwest.”

Now, there is a good chance nothing will come of that. But the fact they asked him must mean that Lambert is at least on their list for expansion. They just bought Virgin and are one of the highest rated airlines in the U.S.

They are largely based on the West Coast, but as they look toward more East Coast and International flights, St. Louis could be a good spot for them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you also make a similar post about this issue on Reddit?  The only reason I ask is because there was a thread about this on Reddit a few months ago.   IF you're NOT the same poster, than this would be the second such story coming out of Alaska Airlines training -- and, as such, it would carry some weight.  Otherwise, the Reddit thread was posted here, in its entirety, several pages back.

I am the same poster. Didn’t see that it was linked. Sorry about that.


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No problem.  I was just trying to establish if more than one person had heard this.

Trololzilla wrote:Can't speak as to the "recently inside" comment (though I'd certainly love to be a part of an event held in the rental space in B)

What types of events are held in B? I would think to have an event at an airport (unless your event relates to aviation/airport) would be pretty inconvenient, even if you don't need to go through security.

Perseus767 wrote:

Trololzilla wrote:Can't speak as to the "recently inside" comment (though I'd certainly love to be a part of an event held in the rental space in B)

What types of events are held in B? I would think to have an event at an airport (unless your event relates to aviation/airport) would be pretty inconvenient, even if you don't need to go through security.

I usually see networking events/fundraiser type things. They market it to wedding receptions, etc but I don't know how many of those they actual get. I think they offer free parking to guests. 

https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... mation.pdf

^If I ever had a second wedding reception I'd love to have it at the airport. Not sure my wife would agree, but . . . we do owe the US friends and family a party one of these days. And what better place to celebrate an international marriage than an airport? Lambert and Tan Sohn Nhat are definitely place with real romantic implications for me. Maybe it can be a significant anniversary party one day soonish.