urbanSTL

2000

framer wrote: ↑

Mar 09, 2018

^Love your late night rantings, SP.

Sorry. Yes. I get a little off topic as the hour grows later. Jshank made me do it. Him or Billy Busch. Or both.

Anyone here make it to STL for the PBI inaugural yesterday?

Not sure how many of you have flown AA long haul recently, but in their boarding sequence on the in-flight monitors on the 777-300 they display a series of global cities and skylines. Yesterday flew LHR-JFK and they displayed St. Louis in the sequence. Also, in the in-flight display, they have a visitors guide for St. Louis accessible via the route map.

Cool to see.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 12, 2018

Not sure how many of you have flown AA long haul recently, but in their boarding sequence on the in-flight monitors on the 777-300 they display a series of global cities and skylines. Yesterday flew LHR-JFK and they displayed St. Louis in the sequence. Also, in the in-flight display, they have a visitors guide for St. Louis accessible via the route map.

Cool to see.

Isn't this doubly odd since there is no STL-JFK offered so you wouldn't be using JFK as a connecting point to here.

Added note: Curious if Southwest going 4x daily to Boston in the fall a permanent add or not? they only had it in peak summer before. Is this a preemptive defense move in case someone else jumps in? Though it could be either demand growing fast, lack of competition compared to most other routes from Boston, and/or increase in feed here requires more flights. The last might be since a number of the largest unserved routes from Boston by anyone is some of the shorthaul places that would connect here. Also there seems to be possibly building up flight banks for cross country travel with increases in frequency to ease and west coast places.

Air Force One will be in town Wednesday for those of you who like plane spotting. Doing a speech at Boeing.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Mar 12, 2018

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Mar 12, 2018

Not sure how many of you have flown AA long haul recently, but in their boarding sequence on the in-flight monitors on the 777-300 they display a series of global cities and skylines. Yesterday flew LHR-JFK and they displayed St. Louis in the sequence. Also, in the in-flight display, they have a visitors guide for St. Louis accessible via the route map.

Cool to see.

Isn't this doubly odd since there is no STL-JFK offered so you wouldn't be using JFK as a connecting point to here.

Added note: Curious if Southwest going 4x daily to Boston in the fall a permanent add or not? they only had it in peak summer before. Is this a preemptive defense move in case someone else jumps in? Though it could be either demand growing fast, lack of competition compared to most other routes from Boston, and/or increase in feed here requires more flights. The last might be since a number of the largest unserved routes from Boston by anyone is some of the shorthaul places that would connect here. Also there seems to be possibly building up flight banks for cross country travel with increases in frequency to ease and west coast places.

Been on there for a little bit, the last cycle had Boston, Los Angeles and of course several of the hubs (including Charlotte )

AA's IFE content is licensed and provided by a company called Spafax and then loaded onto the system onboard the aircraft (in this case on the 777 fleet it's a Panasonic system)

The 77W/777-300ER moves across the LAA system and touches several hubs with direct service to STL:

DFW (GRU, HKG, LHR [x2])
LAX (HKG, LHR)
MIA (EZE, GRU, LHR)

I noticed that Delta has been using gate A9, to offload, for at least the last week for their flight from SLC that gets in around midnight. Good to see that gate getting some use, even if it is once a day. It means every gate in A that has a jetway is getting some regular use now.

A bit of an in the right place at the right time thing- The full reopening of Concourse D to reconnect things is being strongly considered and planned for right now. That's not just a rumor. It's from a primary source.

I complied the PDEW numbers for the 3rd qtr of 2017 into a database. These are one way numbers.

These seem to be a pretty good indicator of what nonstops we have been getting. Sacramento (79 per day) was the highest without a nonstop when it was added and Hartford (61 per day) was the 2nd highest when it was added.

Highest PDEW without a nonstop
Jacksonville, FL 63 passengers per day (Allegiant runs this round to BLV but its numbers are not included)
Norfolk, VA 56 passengers per day
Richmond, VA 45 passengers per day

Destinations with a 20+ passenger increase from STL (3rd qtr 2016 vs 3rd qtr 2017)

Atlanta, GA +46 10.17%
San Diego, CA +36 16.70%
Miami, FL +35 15.99%
Austin, TX +32 23.53%
Denver, CO +24 3.89%
Boston, MA +22 6.08%
Charleston, SC +20 37.61%
Tampa, FL +20 10.91%
Phoenix, AZ +20 7.11%

Destinations with a 20+ passenger decrease from STL (3rd qtr 2016 vs 3rd qtr 2017)

Houston, TX -27 -9.37%
Dallas/Fort Worth, TX -28 -4.95%
Chicago, IL -35 -6.01%
Las Vegas, NV -37 -7.78%
Minneapolis/St. Paul, MN -38 -10.71%
Los Angeles, CA -46 -7.14%



Qtr3-2017 tab has the years worth of numbers listed then averaged
2016-2017 3rd qtr comparison compares the 3rd qtr of 2016 to 3rd of 2017.



I also am working on adding the December 2016 Load Factors to finalize my 2016 spreadsheet. Might be a couple more days, I got a new puppy which has been taking up a lot of my free time at night.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2018

Good to hear! I had heard rumors but nothing substantial on it. Glad to have someone else hear it from a source they trust. I would think if Southwest wants anymore gates that it would put them far enough down D to really consider it opening it all back up.

Sorry for the naive question here, I hardly fly Southwest, much less fly at all. But can Terminal 2 TSA handle that much expansion? I realize they're already halfway there but I've heard T2 TSA can get bad at times. I know that T2 vehicular traffic is already a disaster at times.

Side note: I've only flown Southwest once, my plane landed in STL at 8:00 am on a Monday morning. It was crowded but in a good way. A great sight to see.

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 27, 2018

Good to hear! I had heard rumors but nothing substantial on it. Glad to have someone else hear it from a source they trust. I would think if Southwest wants anymore gates that it would put them far enough down D to really consider it opening it all back up.

Sorry for the naive question here, I hardly fly Southwest, much less fly at all. But can Terminal 2 TSA handle that much expansion? I realize they're already halfway there but I've heard T2 TSA can get bad at times. I know that T2 vehicular traffic is already a disaster at times.

Side note: I've only flown Southwest once, my plane landed in STL at 8:00 am on a Monday morning. It was crowded but in a good way. A great sight to see.

If D were fully opened again, wouldn't flyers be able to use the T1 TSA check?

ricke002 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

If D were fully opened again, wouldn't flyers be able to use the T1 TSA check?

Someone else will know much more than I on this but:
From my understanding, Southwest likes having the Terminal mostly to themselves. I doubt Southwest would want to put a desk in T1. I guess carry-on passengers with online check-in could go to T1 TSA. Plus there's a certain amount of staffing unpredictability letting passengers choose which TSA checkpoint they go through. What other airports have 2 terminals feeding into one concourse?

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

What other airports have 2 terminals feeding into one concourse?

STL did until the mid-2000's

ricke002 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

What other airports have 2 terminals feeding into one concourse?

STL did until the mid-2000's

That I did not know, that's good to know that it's a possibility then. I think it would alleviate some of T2's TSA and vehicular traffic issues. Especially when regular flyers start learning when it's best to use which terminal.

Now I have a headache with Concourse D information. Because I have heard, sourced secondarily, that Southwest and Lambert have ongoing discussions about a substantial increase in presence with the secondary markets like Jacksonville, Boise, Albuquerque, Birmingham, Buffalo, and some more international routes being considered.

I wonder if there exists a connection. I don't know.

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

Sorry for the naive question here, I hardly fly Southwest, much less fly at all. But can Terminal 2 TSA handle that much expansion? I realize they're already halfway there but I've heard T2 TSA can get bad at times. I know that T2 vehicular traffic is already a disaster at times.

Side note: I've only flown Southwest once, my plane landed in STL at 8:00 am on a Monday morning. It was crowded but in a good way. A great sight to see.

They are currently adding more lanes to the security in T2. Traffic, like you mention, is really bad at times. I don't see that changing. I don't really know what they could do. I guess if they reopen D then you could exit through the main terminal, which has less traffic. That said, a lot of the new passengers are connecting so that shouldn't add a bunch to the pickoff/dropoff.

aprice wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

ricke002 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

If D were fully opened again, wouldn't flyers be able to use the T1 TSA check?

Someone else will know much more than I on this but:
From my understanding, Southwest likes having the Terminal mostly to themselves. I doubt Southwest would want to put a desk in T1. I guess carry-on passengers with online check-in could go to T1 TSA. Plus there's a certain amount of staffing unpredictability letting passengers choose which TSA checkpoint they go through. What other airports have 2 terminals feeding into one concourse?

I am curious about this as well. I guess it wouldn't matter which side they check in on (as long as they don't mind a really long walk to E4), but if they would do this, would they then use baggage claim in T1 for some flights and T2 for others? That would be really confusing. I don't think in the past when they had 2 terminals feeding C/D/E that any airlines had desks in both, it was one or the other. But I might be 100% off on this.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

would they then use baggage claim in T1 for some flights and T2 for others? That would be really confusing.

Wouldn't we assume (after assuming the rest of D is opening rumor is true) that the currently closed off portion of D would reopen as D? Then, all flights that deplane at a D gate go to T1 and all that deplane at E gates to go T2, right? Doesn't seem overly confusing. Maybe just a demarcation line in the actual airport between E/D to show which way to get your bags. Have the flight attendants make an announcement before the doors open and then have signage at each baggage area. ORD is fully connected (T1-T3), yet have 3 separate baggage claim areas.

ricke002 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Mar 28, 2018

would they then use baggage claim in T1 for some flights and T2 for others? That would be really confusing.

Wouldn't we assume (after assuming the rest of D is opening rumor is true) that the currently closed off portion of D would reopen as D? Then, all flights that deplane at a D gate go to T1 and all that deplane at E gates to go T2, right? Doesn't seem overly confusing. Maybe just a demarcation line in the actual airport between E/D to show which way to get your bags. Have the flight attendants make an announcement before the doors open and then have signage at each baggage area. ORD is fully connected (T1-T3), yet have 3 separate baggage claim areas.

I would guess Southwest will want all their gates to be E gates. I would also guess having a E gate right next to a D gate when you are flying the same airline would be confusing since it isn't actually a different concourse. If you want to put another airline in D then start them from the C end and keep the D numbers for those and have them get their luggage in T1. If there is going to be a cutoff line I think it should be between airlines and not in the middle of the same airlines gates.

I haven't flown through ORD so I could be 100% off base here but I am guessing T1-3 are somewhat separate from each other by a walkway or something else and don't have some random line drawn after a gate midway down a concourse that says on this side it goes to one baggage claim and on the other side is another one. It also looks like they don't have different airlines across multiple terminals (except international) so all of one airline has the same luggage pickup area. United is in 1. American is in 3.

I am not saying you couldn't split baggage pickups but I still think you would have people going to the wrong spot and it would be confusing. That said, Oakland has the opposite issue which has Southwest in 2 terminals and all the baggage pick up for Southwest in one. I went to the wrong baggage pickup since I went to the baggage pickup for the terminal I was in and it was in the other terminal that was where most of the Southwest flights are located. Their terminals are also connected past security like C/D/E used to be.

I too am not overly familiar with ORD but from looking at Google Earth, very small walkways connect the terminals and they really don't look like they're on the TSA secure side.
As for the walk from T1 to Gate E4, it would be 0.84 mile walk from the eastern edge or the T1 domes to Gate E4. Which might sound like a poorly laid out airport to some but sounds like bragging rights to me. Speaking of which, when are we getting our fancy clothing stores like European airports have? A Zara would kill it in T2.
After the mediocrity I've come to expect in this town, I just wouldn't be surprised if they turn all of D into E and don't even connect it to T1. But again, I really hope I'm wrong. Plus I'd love to see the T1 Domes getting some more love and attention.

I believe the ORD terminal connections from T1-T3 are all airside, but T1 to T2 is a small corridor. T2 to T3 is a pretty impressive looking feature I mean to photograph the next time I'm there, as it's a rather classic piece of mid-century modernism. I've made a goodly number of connections at ORD, but I've never originated or terminated there, so I'm not sure how domestic baggage claim works. That said, United is in both T1 and T2. (O'Hare is very much their baby.) I'd guess they deal with baggage by sending it to the claim in whatever terminal you arrived at, since they're pretty obviously separate and they're at least signed to direct you to their own landisides. Southwest could do the same, but as jshank said . . . they might not. With the D concourse it's kind of arbitrary what terminal it belongs to anyway. (All a matter of the somewhat organic growth of the facility, I suppose.)