urbanSTL

neat.

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... grant.html

St. Louis Lambert International Airport was awarded a $7.1 million Federal Aviation Administration to be used to repair and extend a runway and portions of two taxiways.


Also, Southwest has their next extension coming Monday. San Jose, CA mayor has said they are adding several new routes there for this extension. I wonder if we are one of them. We have that unused gate Southwest controls so I would think this would be the extension they start adding. Charleston and Pensacola could both come back at this update also (unless they wait til June).

Hooray!

The news just said they are announcing a new carrier tomorrow. Cincy also is tomorrow though so this makes me think it isn't the BA flight. It would be a coincidence. If it isn't then maybe JetBlue or Westjet?

EDIT: I totally misread that tweet. BA for tomorrow. Great news! hopefully

Seems like whoever it is its likely something that fills one of the larger holes. Not sure if its linked or not with the Cincinnati Announcment but if it is almost certainly not BA and not sure if they have planes available to start in May. Could be JetBlue in that case which would be a nice hole to fill. Another possible thing could be Aeromexico to Mexico City as well or Condor to Frankfurt. Westjet would be interesting possiblity as well, either add competition to Toronto or add Calgary which has never been done nonstop. Least likely i'm guessing is Spirit due to they seem to have harder times where Southwest is strong and it seems the fruit has already been picked on what they could do from here.

Almost has to be something significant to have something leak ahead of time. Due to not occuring before.

Trololzilla wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Almost has to be something significant to have something leak ahead of time. Due to not occuring before.

Not entirely a leak, as the local news reported an announcement for tomorrow as well.

If it is B6, would JFK or Boston be more likely (or maybe even a west coast route)? JFK seems like it's one of the larger holes from STL. Would hopefully encourage some competition on the route.

Boston is really pricey from here so I could see them starting either one or both. Boston seems to be the one they have been expanding lately though. I would like to see both happen.

I just really hope this all isn't building up to a Spirit airline announcement that would be such a downer.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Westjet would be interesting possiblity as well, either add competition to Toronto or add Calgary which has never been done nonstop.

This is kind of a sidebar from what could be a big announcement tomorrow but Air Canada has a major announcement for Montreal tomorrow. I doubt it is a large expansion into the USA from Montreal and more likely a long haul flight but if they were to expand into the USA, I wonder where on the list we would fall. I am sure being in regional jet range helps. With Toronto going to 3x daily it makes me think we would have a shot if they added 5+ destinations. Anyways, something I wanted to bring up before all the other news hit.

Looking forward to tomorrow now! Cincy's announcement is at 6 am our time. So we will know theirs early.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Westjet would be interesting possiblity as well, either add competition to Toronto or add Calgary which has never been done nonstop.

This is kind of a sidebar from what could be a big announcement tomorrow but Air Canada has a major announcement for Montreal tomorrow. I doubt it is a large expansion into the USA from Montreal and more likely a long haul flight but if they were to expand into the USA, I wonder where on the list we would fall. I am sure being in regional jet range helps. With Toronto going to 3x daily it makes me think we would have a shot if they added 5+ destinations. Anyways, something I wanted to bring up before all the other news hit.

Looking forward to tomorrow now! Cincy's announcement is at 6 am our time. So we will know theirs early.

Made me think that one too. But wouldn't fall under the new airline aspect for whatever tomorrow. Another oddball possibity in it being a new airline though in a way not since its purchased by an airline already existing here would be a flight to SFO using Virgin America metal. It would technicallly in a way fit the criteria and wouldn't surprise me if Alaska does add a bay area flight here at some point. (Either SFO or SJC)

WHOA. Look what happens when I'm off the boards for a few days! Do we have any other indicator that Frank is correct?

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

CVG, CLE, DTW, and STL landed WOW Air.

I believe that's our announcement for today. As much as we would love to have BA, I don't think that's happening for us- yet.

Oh well, we got our TATL*!

I was thinking the issue with BA is planes aren't available until late summer so too early to say anything there. Also I don't think this would inhibit chances of this due to different market segment and likely demand stimulation. Another is considering the aircraft being used it won't use up the widebody gate E33 allowing more flexibility. (this also could explain some of the Southwest gate moves, to free up international arrival gates) Also it seems when one route opens up someone else almost always jumps in later, even announcing before the first starts.

I do wonder, with the plane being used isn't there potential range issues at work since i'm picturing it might be at its limit? It also could be something they can't do in the winter due to stronger headwinds so it could not be a year round route due to that even if it warrants it.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

CVG, CLE, DTW, and STL landed WOW Air.

I believe that's our announcement for today. As much as we would love to have BA, I don't think that's happening for us- yet.

Oh well, we got our TATL*!

I was thinking the issue with BA is planes aren't available until late summer so too early to say anything there. Also I don't think this would inhibit chances of this due to different market segment and likely demand stimulation. Another is considering the aircraft being used it won't use up the widebody gate E33 allowing more flexibility. (this also could explain some of the Southwest gate moves, to free up international arrival gates) Also it seems when one route opens up someone else almost always jumps in later, even announcing before the first starts.

I do wonder, with the plane being used isn't there potential range issues at work since i'm picturing it might be at its limit? It also could be something they can't do in the winter due to stronger headwinds so it could not be a year round route due to that even if it warrants it.

An interesting point, however, WOW does not typically run seasonally in the US, except ORD. I believe we will be on an A321, which we actually will be approaching its limits.

Back to BA however- I'm interested to see where Frank got his info. Is there more coming today? We really hadn't heard a peep from the airport- and still haven't even with this public release.

Regardless of how we may feel about WOW, this is still TATL service and it increases the route network from STL and I'm not complaining.

^ The range issue is why its a bit surprising, unless it will be a seasonal summer thing which would make it less likely to make anyone else not want to come in. Another is they may be counting on pulling a good amount of the traffic from other metros for low fares since I think they have done this on other routes which may be a reason they picked where they went.

Also, would be interested to see timetable as well to see how long it would use up one of the international arrival gates, since it may be similar in time to Southwest's Cancun flight. (possible that isn't flying over summer but don't know yet) which brings up the possible need to add gates for this in the near future. Also timetable for seeing what total number of connections would be manageable. Since this likely only fills a portion of TATL demand from here, pulling either those who wouldn't otherwise due to low fares or people driving from other metro areas to take advantage. It doesn't address business travelers or those going beyond Europe to Africa, Middle East, or India.

Tickets are already on sale on WOW's website. It looks like the flight is 5X weekly, and they are booking through October, which I believe is the extent of their current schedule.

Flights depart STL at 10:55 PM, arrive at KEF around 6:00 AM.

Returns to STL at 8:35 PM.

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Tickets are already on sale on WOW's website. It looks like the flight is 5X weekly, and they are booking through October, which I believe is the extent of their current schedule.

Flights depart STL at 10:55 PM, arrive at KEF around 6:00 AM.

Returns to STL at 8:35 PM.

This would explain in part Southwest needing more gates, since this would occupy a gate during their evening banks. The time doesn't leave much cushion in case they did run into need to refuel going west due to range limit, unless they have to weight restrict the flights.

I could see pulling some demand from KC and Memphis among other places for this due to cheap fares and those are likely impossible to reach by them anyway.

Yes, this is likely unsubsidized and could encourage someone else to come in later, especially if demand is stimulated and ability for someone else to do something year round. (Since I doubt this could be year round for technical reasons) Likely they would get the normal incentives from the airport for any new route which I think is waiving landing fees for a couple years. (Though maybe not that since i'm not sure if it requires year-round and/or daily service)

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

CVG, CLE, DTW, and STL landed WOW Air.

I believe that's our announcement for today. As much as we would love to have BA, I don't think that's happening for us- yet.

Oh well, we got our TATL*!

WOW, what a letdown. This was about worst case scenario for me. We get a TATL flight that I don't even consider one because it doesn't help business at all. It only helps the leisure person because of price. The Spirit of the TATL flight. Now will BA or whoever else decide that this takes up too many seats so they won't come at all. Disappointing. The airport wasn't in a position to turn it down but if this backfires it is going to be a tough one to take.

imperialmog wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Tickets are already on sale on WOW's website. It looks like the flight is 5X weekly, and they are booking through October, which I believe is the extent of their current schedule.

Flights depart STL at 10:55 PM, arrive at KEF around 6:00 AM.

Returns to STL at 8:35 PM.

I could see pulling some demand from KC and Memphis among other places for this due to cheap fares and those are likely impossible to reach by them anyway.

Yes, this is likely unsubsidized and could encourage someone else to come in later, especially if demand is stimulated and ability for someone else to do something year round. (Since I doubt this could be year round for technical reasons) Likely they would get the normal incentives from the airport for any new route which I think is waiving landing fees for a couple years. (Though maybe not that since i'm not sure if it requires year-round and/or daily service)

Interesting point with demand pulling from KC and Memphis. Maybe even IND to an extent. I believe PIT used subsidies for WOW, and they had wow before Condor. I totally feel this being a huge let down to everyone, but it's definitely not the end of the world. I think if this route is seasonal, then it really favors another airline like BA or Condor coming in. WOW will not cater to business travelers. Rhonda Hamm-Airport Director ( I will not attempt the last name) addressed the route in her statement as a leisure destination, and not much else- so I think it's safe to say the airport knows this is not for business passengers.

What I think this does spell is bad news for airports like CMH and IND. IND especially would have been a low hanging fruit for WOW to pick off. CMH is in the same boat. IND and CMH are now surrounded by TATL's on all sides with in a four-hour drive. I see it being very hard for them to convince any prospecting airline (esp. BA) to launch service given the ULCC TATL's surrounding them. Thankfully, STL is still 'far enough' from other TATL origins to still land a legacy.

My final thoughts on WOW are simple: Better than nothing. Would I have loved to see a BA announcement today? Absolutely. But, landing any TATL IMO was better than landing JetBlue or Spirit.

jshank83 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

Chalupas54 wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2017

CVG, CLE, DTW, and STL landed WOW Air.

I believe that's our announcement for today. As much as we would love to have BA, I don't think that's happening for us- yet.

Oh well, we got our TATL*!

WOW, what a letdown. This was about worst case scenario for me. We get a TATL flight that I don't even consider one because it doesn't help business at all. It only helps the leisure person because of price. The Spirit of the TATL flight. Now will BA or whoever else decide that this takes up too many seats so they won't come at all. Disappointing. The airport wasn't in a position to turn it down but if this backfires it is going to be a tough one to take.

I'm thinking it might not discourage others to jump in, mainly due to the pattern seems to be otherwise in that someone else jumps in after one does, see Cleveland this week. And the number of people reported that do go to/from Europe from here, this might not pull many from that and could either be pulling from stimulated traffic, people driving elsewhere from here for a flight that now go out here, or people in other places going here to catch it. Likely minimally hurts chances for anyone else to jump in because past history in similar situations and stimulated demand.

Issue with BA was they won't have another 788 available until later in summer season, and would they announce anything that starts on tail end or off season or wait until following year? Others jumping in could force their hand on not waiting until following spring.

The great part about WOW is they run really, really supersonic.

5:45 PM - Mon, Jun 4, 2018 | Reykjavik (KEF)
2h 20m |WW167 | Operated by: WOW air
8:25 PM - Mon, Jun 4, 2018 | St. Louis (STL)