I know Centene has their own fleet of planes. One can fly direct to their Health plan in Valencia Spain.
That is exactly why I know you have no idea of civic or the business industry in this market.Anyone can just look at examples like the St. Louis Mills or a plethora of failed hotel projects downtown.
There is no "plethora" of failed hotel projects downtown. Not sure what or even where this is about. If you site the Grand Hotel that was a Renaissance Hotel and now Marriott - that had EVERYTHING to do with bad initiatives and planning and too high of investments. The hotel has consolidated and rebranded and has new ownership as well.
Downtown STL has more downtown hotels than MOST cities it's size or even larger. 25 branded name hotels, including a 5 star Four Seasons hotel, are located in the downtown core. Two just opened, The Embassy Suites and The Marriott Courtyard on Washington. In addition there are even multiple chain hotels in the downtown core, I/e Drury Inn and Suites has 4 properties, Hilton has 2, Marriott has 3 blah blah blah
St. Louis Mills? Are you kidding me with this? Is that a joke? This is what you are sighting as a huge failed real estate project?
By all due respect, post on your airline industry, but don't post blatant wrong information about this market. You have absolutely no idea what the real estate, financial and business markets are worth or their status in this market by posting that nonsense.
I will not post anymore on JAL. After that post, I don't have the strength. It completely showed ignorance of STL and almost trolling. Like I said, this will be my last post for JAL. I apologize to everyone else.
matguy70 wrote:That is exactly why I know you have no idea of civic or the business industry in this market.Anyone can just look at examples like the St. Louis Mills or a plethora of failed hotel projects downtown.
There is no "plethora" of failed hotel projects downtown. Not sure what or even where this is about. If you site the Grand Hotel that was a Renaissance Hotel and now Marriott - that had EVERYTHING to do with bad initiatives and planning and too high of investments. The hotel has consolidated and rebranded and has new ownership as well.
Downtown STL has more downtown hotels than MOST cities it's size or even larger. 25 branded name hotels, including a 5 star Four Seasons hotel, are located in the downtown core. Two just opened, The Embassy Suites and The Marriott Courtyard on Washington. In addition there are even multiple chain hotels in the downtown core, I/e Drury Inn and Suites has 4 properties, Hilton has 2, Marriott has 3 blah blah blah
St. Louis Mills? Are you kidding me with this? Is that a joke? This is what you are sighting as a huge failed real estate project?
By all due respect, post on your airline industry, but don't post blatant wrong information about this market. You have absolutely no idea what the real estate, financial and business markets are worth or their status in this market by posting that nonsense.
I will not post anymore on JAL. After that post, I don't have the strength. It completely showed ignorance of STL and almost trolling. Like I said, this will be my last post for JAL. I apologize to everyone else.
I cite those as examples in the past 15 or so years that were financed by national developers. Most everything else has been local or regional.
And the FS STL is no longer 5-Stat/5 Diamond. They electively returned their fifth star, as I understand it, 2015 was a rough year post Ferguson.
http://press.fourseasons.com/stlouis/ho ... tive-year/
Nothing currently listed for MO: https://www.autoclubmo.aaa.com/home/tra ... ww.aaa.com
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Please take this to private messages.JAL007 wrote:matguy70 wrote:That is exactly why I know you have no idea of civic or the business industry in this market.Anyone can just look at examples like the St. Louis Mills or a plethora of failed hotel projects downtown.
There is no "plethora" of failed hotel projects downtown. Not sure what or even where this is about. If you site the Grand Hotel that was a Renaissance Hotel and now Marriott - that had EVERYTHING to do with bad initiatives and planning and too high of investments. The hotel has consolidated and rebranded and has new ownership as well.
Downtown STL has more downtown hotels than MOST cities it's size or even larger. 25 branded name hotels, including a 5 star Four Seasons hotel, are located in the downtown core. Two just opened, The Embassy Suites and The Marriott Courtyard on Washington. In addition there are even multiple chain hotels in the downtown core, I/e Drury Inn and Suites has 4 properties, Hilton has 2, Marriott has 3 blah blah blah
St. Louis Mills? Are you kidding me with this? Is that a joke? This is what you are sighting as a huge failed real estate project?
By all due respect, post on your airline industry, but don't post blatant wrong information about this market. You have absolutely no idea what the real estate, financial and business markets are worth or their status in this market by posting that nonsense.
I will not post anymore on JAL. After that post, I don't have the strength. It completely showed ignorance of STL and almost trolling. Like I said, this will be my last post for JAL. I apologize to everyone else.
I cite those as examples in the past 15 or so years that were financed by national developers. Most everything else has been local or regional.
And the FS STL is no longer 5-Stat/5 Diamond. They electively returned their fifth star, as I understand it, 2015 was a rough year post Ferguson.
http://press.fourseasons.com/stlouis/ho ... tive-year/
Nothing currently listed for MO: https://www.autoclubmo.aaa.com/home/tra ... ww.aaa.com
Yea that got off-topic rather quickly. Just curious how much more capacity can Lambert actually handle in the future without any kind of expansion of the Terminal just the rehabs of the current gate situation?
At it's peak, TWA alone had over 500 daily flights. My best guess is that we are at about 225 daily flights today.joelo wrote:Yea that got off-topic rather quickly. Just curious how much more capacity can Lambert actually handle in the future without any kind of expansion of the Terminal just the rehabs of the current gate situation?
We did lose some gates during renovation but, if all concourses were opened, we could at least double the current number of flights.
Greg
Lambert had over 30 million passengers pass through its terminals for a few years at the end of the TWA era. I would think Lambert could handle 20 million passengers with little difficulty, which is 50% more than today.
Busiest day in the 2nd quarter of 2016 had 506 operations. Divide by 2 to account only for departures, then multiply by 89.6% for the percentage of the total that are commercial passenger operations, and you get 226 departures. Good guess!gregl wrote:At it's peak, TWA alone had over 500 daily flights. My best guess is that we are at about 225 daily flights today.
What do you guys think for many more flights could be handled without Concourse D with remaining gates in Concourse & re open B?mill204 wrote:Busiest day in the 2nd quarter of 2016 had 506 operations. Divide by 2 to account only for departures, then multiply by 89.6% for the percentage of the total that are commercial passenger operations, and you get 226 departures. Good guess!gregl wrote:At it's peak, TWA alone had over 500 daily flights. My best guess is that we are at about 225 daily flights today.
Can't imagine Lambert 500 daily flights for the foreseeable future & just believe Concourse D is not built to the standards and expectations of current travelers, and business travelers. The sooner it can be knocked down the better Lambert can plan a future for additional short term parking as well as a consolidated rental car facility.
Lambert has 47 gates now in Concourses A, C, and E. Concourse C presently has 15 gates, but once had as many as 30. Subtract 5 gates as I believe I read somewhere about removing gates for power-in, power-out operations, and you have a total of 57 gates with a fully utilized Concourse C. That would permit a 20% increase in the number of flights or around 275 flights per day. And increased gate utilization from 10.2 to 13 operations per gate per day would permit a further increase to 350 flights per day, all without Concourse B.dredger wrote:What do you guys think for many more flights could be handled without Concourse D with remaining gates in Concourse & re open B?
But I have this feeling that we'd sooner have a brand new unified Concourse ABC than a reopened and renovated Concourse C.
By years end 2016, STL will see around 13 million or so.Lambert had over 30 million passengers pass through its terminals for a few years at the end of the TWA era. I would think Lambert could handle 20 million passengers with little difficulty, which is 50% more than today.
I think a unified ABC concourse for the future would be ideal. You can essentially build new security access/customs/Immigration area where Concourse B is now at and add gates perpendicular and in line with current A & C east west alignment and complete with minimal disruption to existing facilities while all at the same time keeping the iconic Terminal 1 main concourse as is, that design and open hall is timeless.mill204 wrote:Lambert has 47 gates now in Concourses A, C, and E. Concourse C presently has 15 gates, but once had as many as 30. Subtract 5 gates as I believe I read somewhere about removing gates for power-in, power-out operations, and you have a total of 57 gates with a fully utilized Concourse C. That would permit a 20% increase in the number of flights or around 275 flights per day. And increased gate utilization from 10.2 to 13 operations per gate per day would permit a further increase to 350 flights per day, all without Concourse B.dredger wrote:What do you guys think for many more flights could be handled without Concourse D with remaining gates in Concourse & re open B?
But I have this feeling that we'd sooner have a brand new unified Concourse ABC than a reopened and renovated Concourse C.
Would love to see JetBlue enter the St. Louis market in some way. I wonder if that's even a possibility - they don't serve the midwest outside of Chi, Detroit, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh (the last two maybe being good comps for STL?).
JetBlue is in Nashville now also. Although, maybe not considered the Midwest, I lump it in as a comp. I would like JetBlue to JFK and/or Boston.
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In other news, Portland, OR, another metro smaller than St Louis, has just landed service to LHR on Delta.
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Actually Nashville might be a better comparison to St. Louis due to also being a focus city for Southwest which makes it more similar than Cleveland and Pittsburgh. I wonder if Southwest adding another flight to Boston early next year outside of peak summer is a possible preemptive move if JetBlue does start it, Since I think the only larger metros JetBlue doesn't serve from Boston is Atlanta and Minneapolis which are Delta fortress hubs (and may be harder to crack due to frequency of competition) Reminds me again of tat one article of a company wanting more non-stop service to Boston specifically and could be tied to that, and that is likely one of those markets that is increasing in demand rather fast with the startup scene here. Also JetBlue would be the most likely airline to offer JFK service to here, and may be interested in that due to no direct competition (though plenty of indirect obviously exists via LGA). Only issue is do they have the planes to expand their network and their focus growthwise.
Also, if JetBlue did pop up, I take it they would go in C?
Also, if JetBlue did pop up, I take it they would go in C?
I think Southwest obviously is proactively keeping JetBlue out. They have opened up a lot of new routes and added to routes lately that probably are keeping JetBlue out. I think Southwest has more flights out of STL than Nashville(even though it is a focus)/Pitt/Cleveland so there is less room for JetBlue to move in.
I would think they would be in C, it seems like C has the most room (if they eventually open more of it up), but if they only have one gate I guess they could fit in A or C pretty easily.
I would think they would be in C, it seems like C has the most room (if they eventually open more of it up), but if they only have one gate I guess they could fit in A or C pretty easily.
Glad you liked it.JAL007 wrote:Five-stars. Thanks for posting-no offense taken whatsoever. LAX is awesome and as you said there are few other airports you can see a line up with say, an El Al 777 followed by an Alaska 737-800, followed by an Emirates A380.arch city wrote:I recently went to Los Angeles (LAX) for a music event/festival and quick vacation.
Thanks for viewing. I ALWAYS enjoy myself when going to the Los Angeles area. I have family and friends there (Long Beach, Van Nuys, Los Angeles). I wish I could afford to live in the nicer areas there.JAL007 wrote:Thanks again for sharing, and I hope you had a great trip.
jshank83 wrote:I think Southwest obviously is proactively keeping JetBlue out. They have opened up a lot of new routes and added to routes lately that probably are keeping JetBlue out. I think Southwest has more flights out of STL than Nashville(even though it is a focus)/Pitt/Cleveland so there is less room for JetBlue to move in.
I would think they would be in C, it seems like C has the most room (if they eventually open more of it up), but if they only have one gate I guess they could fit in A or C pretty easily.
Pretty much speculation on my part but still of believe that it is all about enough traffic base between STL and New York area for JetBlue to make a go at a STL-JFK route as they really don't have the route network as Southwest, Delta, United, and AA to compete on traffic anywhere else, certainly not going to run to NY to get to FL and JetBlue can't offer any west coast service unless they start building a network similar to Southwest.
At end of day, I think both Detla and JetBlue run the numbers for JFK and just don't get there without more growth in the market even though they probably look at it differently, JetBlue all domestic where as Delta looks if they could pick up any or take any international travelers away from other carriers in STL market in addition to domestic. I suspect Delta believes any international travelers on Delta going out of STL would simply be taking a JFK flight over their own ATL mainline flight(s).
I guess the way I look at it is Delta has 6 nonstops a day to LGA and American has 3/4. (I am leaving out southwest since they don't fly to JFK) Why not move one of two of those to JFK? I know there are some issues with how far you can fly from LGA so a lot of flights to the west coast have to go out of JFK and not LGA. I am sure that factors in, but you would think having a couple of those flights to go JFK instead isn't crazy since there are a bunch of STL-LGA flights a day but no STL-JFK. But I fully admit I don't know what goes into picking where a flight goes.
Jetblue does have codeshares with international carriers out of JFK so people could fly Jetblue to JFK, then one of those the international leg. Maybe the prices can't be competitive though.
Obviously, this is all just me thinking out loud so I could be way off base.
Jetblue does have codeshares with international carriers out of JFK so people could fly Jetblue to JFK, then one of those the international leg. Maybe the prices can't be competitive though.
Obviously, this is all just me thinking out loud so I could be way off base.
^ I don't have a clue either and it seems like a no-brainer to move a flight or two from LGA to JFK.
The one thing I like about coming into JFK on Delta is getting entertained by international flight crews coming walking down the concourse, usually all the pilots & flight attendants as one group that is both the impressive in the #'s & the shear professional demeanor as well as attitude, and seeing the occasional double decker parked at the gate.
The one thing I like about coming into JFK on Delta is getting entertained by international flight crews coming walking down the concourse, usually all the pilots & flight attendants as one group that is both the impressive in the #'s & the shear professional demeanor as well as attitude, and seeing the occasional double decker parked at the gate.
I fly into PDX every 2 or 3 months and it is a nice airport. But it seems like a small airport with one terminal and short concourses. It also only have one security area to move through. Albeit, clean - airy and great services available.In other news, Portland, OR, another metro smaller than St Louis, has just landed service to LHR on Delta.
No as for Delta in PDX - they have about the same number of destinations out of PDX as STL - they also have Amsterdam, Tokyo and now London/H.
That being said, PDX is a coastal airport competing ONLY with SEA for flights in the USA's PCNW. PDX has picked up quite a few new nonstop (both domestic and international) in the past couple years. It is an easy airport and an easy portal for the PCNW and a great alternative 2 hours south of Seattle.
PDX is also an Alaska (mainly Alaska's Horizon Air/SkyWest Air) mini-hub. Alaska runs a lot of their puddle-jumpers (prop planes) in/out of PDX and Delta is also Partners with Alaska there.
PDX is so popular with STL now that daily nonstop are offered from STL on Alaska (SkyWest) and Southwest.
Heading to LHR tomorrow on Delta (via connection at DTW). Interesting how Detroit and St. Louis are in some ways similar cities but DTW is a more modern, legitimate airport with international flights.
Hopefully the LHR direct flight rumors from STL are true and transpire. Would cut travel time to Europe from STL by 2-3 hours (positioning flight + layover).
Hopefully the LHR direct flight rumors from STL are true and transpire. Would cut travel time to Europe from STL by 2-3 hours (positioning flight + layover).
Detroit and STL's airports were both on Par together for years with Northwest hub in Detroit and TWA in St. Louis. Detroit remained strong (so far) with Delta's takeover. I still can see Delta hubing down Detroit or MSP in the next few years. One or the other... and most likely MSP before Detroit due to larger population and service area.
DL has downsized MEM & CVG. I believe both MSP & DTW will stay fairly static.matguy70 wrote:Detroit and STL's airports were both on Par together for years with Northwest hub in Detroit and TWA in St. Louis. Detroit remained strong (so far) with Delta's takeover. I still can see Delta hubing down Detroit or MSP in the next few years. One or the other... and most likely MSP before Detroit due to larger population and service area.
Each major airline has 2-3 hubs in the Central & Mountain timezones. While not ideally separated north to south, I don't see one being shut down anytime soon.