urbanSTL

migueltejada wrote:

steve wrote:


Don't follow you there, bud. There are plenty of cities, in this country and around the world, that have very old buildings with new windows and fashionable people inside. Old does NOT equal, poor, dirty etc. (God I hate that mentality).



Second, Wash Ave is not a former slum. It was the second busiest garment district in the country, full of people, life, and can you believe it? fashionable shops.



Does Tribeca seem weird to you?



I may be wrong, but it just seems like you have the mentality of OLD=POOR.

No, you're wrong.



Never seen Tribeca, but i don't think Old = poor. I think Old = old. I mean, c'mon, if you saw a 90 year old man walking around with Ipod earphone in their ears, you'd look twice and think it was odd. Now imagine if an entire bus full of geriatrics got out and was wearing Jay-Z t-shirts. It's kinda the same thing.



It's weird for me at least, to drive down a former slum (the people who remember wash ave as attractive are well over 60 years old by now. It's been a slum since the 1960s.) and see these old buildings with hyper new uses in them that are ultra clean. Old people have wrinkles, gray hair, moles, skin blots etc. Old buildings, by comparison, usually have similar signs of aging, albeit in masonry.



Again, gentrification is good (to a degree), I'm just saying it looks weird.

OK, so old=decrepit, dilapidated, tired? That's my point, you think that old things should be in poor shape, or at least rough around the edges, which would at least implicitly entail poverty. But I suppose you've never seen the Champs Elysee in Paris, or really anywhere in London. Tons of old building that have been so meticulously preserved, they look new. Nothing weird about it, but then I guess if you're not accustomed to it, I guess it would be "weird."



And, as Jive said, Wash Ave was never a "slum." It was utterly abandoned, but that's not the same thing.



Finally, gotta agree with Trent. Love the OPO district, it always has been my favorite part of downtown, and it has (or will have) the "urban" feel as defined by Agent.

And, as Jive said, Wash Ave was never a "slum." It was utterly abandoned, but that's not the same thing.

Having had an office in the Lucas Lofts for several years in the mid-1980s, and then working with a marketing firm in the Curlee Building from about 1992-2001, I'd have to challenge this wording as much as you challenged the term "slum." "Sparsely occupied," sure.

Expat wrote:I find the townhouses around St. Joseph Shrine to be very attractive. I would love to see development expand north to meet that area. I would like to hear ideas on expanding on the parking lots north of Wash Ave and beyond. How can we bring St. Joseph Shrine into the attractive, walkable realm of downtown. Imagine walking from downtown to St. Joseph on leafy streets, past handsome townhouses & neighborhood retail, etc. Can it be done?

I totally agree with you on the area around St. Joseph's - it's great, but it's basically an island right now.



It would seem that 11th Street would be a good starting point to bridge Washington Avenue with Columbus Square - you have The Dubliner at Washington, then McMurphy's and Mosaic to the north - add more buildings with retail along 11th in between Washington and Cole.

11th could work, but I think Mosaic is leaving that space. Also, the west side of the building Mosaic occupies seems to be thinking about collapsing. Ever noticed the crack and the slope at the west edge of the south facade?

TGE-ATW wrote:11th could work, but I think Mosaic is leaving that space. Also, the west side of the building Mosaic occupies seems to be thinking about collapsing. Ever noticed the crack and the slope at the west edge of the south facade?

But at least there will still be a business in the space where Mosaic is now, whatever it is that Mosaic's owners have planned for it.



I didn't know about the condition of the Hadley-Dean Building!

TGE-ATW,









About the 11th street connector idea...There are some buildings across the street from Mosaic that I couldn't stop staring at the last time I was in there. Across 11th that is. It's too bad that the convention center makes that area behind the Mosaic building rather desolate feeling.

Never seen Tribeca, but i don't think Old = poor. I think Old = old. I mean, c'mon, if you saw a 90 year old man walking around with Ipod earphone in their ears, you'd look twice and think it was odd. Now imagine if an entire bus full of geriatrics got out and was wearing Jay-Z t-shirts. It's kinda the same thing.

This analogy is ludicrous. Ever been to London? I don't find it odd when I see a street full of multi-hundred year old buildings still full of life, and sporting brand new rehabilitations and amenities. A 90 year old man is comparatively one of the older people alive, while a 90 year old building is not very old in the grand scheme. Maybe if I saw the Great Pyramid of Giza filled with lofts.... Maybe I'd see your point.

trent wrote:TGE-ATW,









About the 11th street connector idea...There are some buildings across the street from Mosaic that I couldn't stop staring at the last time I was in there. Across 11th that is. It's too bad that the convention center makes that area behind the Mosaic building rather desolate feeling.

And the suburban office buildings to the north really detract from the area as well.

liked that huh?



Do you mean the Bee Hat building with the steam breathing lions and the large breasted terra cotta angels in the cornice? That building is amazing. It always makes me wonder how those early 20th century builders decided what pressed brick and terra cotta motif's they were going to use in decoration. I can imagine the board room conversation with a bunch of executives pouring over terra cotta catalogue books and finally deciding on how they were going to decorate their new building. "ok, we are agreed on large breasted naked angels and lions right? but which one should have steam coming out of their mouth?" "Well, vinny says that right now you can only get lions with open mouths. They are all out of angels with open mouths until 1927, so I guess we're going with steaming lions." "agreed? agreed."

I'm pretty sure that the lions were originally the downspouts for the guttering. Much cooler than the vast majority of stuff built today. Bee Hat is definitely one of my favorite buildings around St. Louis.

No, there's a couple buildings to the North that are just kinda cool.

^

I love the building that houses McMurphy's Grill, immediately to the north of Bee Hat. I just think it's so cool how it's basically configured diagonally with a nice little area out front for the patio and a few shady trees.

That's the one i was thinking of, mostly.

I think time has a lot to do with Washington Ave's appearance and time will be a factor in its future. It may seem "fake" or "plastic" because the renovation has been relatively recent. Nearly all of the renovation has been done within about 5 years using tastes and materials available in the last 5 yrs. In that way it may seem like New Town. And like New Town it will look better with mature landscaping and the diversity of paint colors and roofing tiles etc. that happen over time. The materials used in building Wash Ave are far superior and will age better though.



When some of the shops and restaurants go belly up and new ones move in and redo their shopfronts with current materials and some of the old ones fade a little and get a bit more grungy there'll be more of that "authentic" feel on Wash Ave. that you get in cities that have been vital longer (Toronto, Boston, NYC, Chicago). Wash Ave does seem to be poised for a long, successful run.

Had spring break, so I spend a few days exploring Wash Ave. It had been a while since I had been down there.



I have to say, I completely disagree with anyone saying that it feels fake. Saturday morning I sat with my cousin and had a crepe at Washington Ave. Post, then we walked up to the convention center and back (she's a science teacher, and wanted to drop her resume off at the NSTA convention). The neighborhood is really rounding into shape, and looks great.