urbanSTL

^ Great minds.

I didn't know the strip mall lacked pedestrian walkways. It seems like that is a given.



I am a fan of Panera and Starbucks but Geez, can't we make architecture that is worthwhile?



Signs for the 2nd strip mall up north is absolutely grotesque. Let's stop that before it is built.





C.A.V.E. man.

I rode my bike past there a few nights ago. I'd have to agree. One side of the street is beautiful Soulard (well, minus the gas stations) then we have Chesterfield-esque architecture to the east. At least the gas station on the SE corner of the intersection has hints of 'old world' design. Nice convenience, yet a huge eye sore. Would it really have been more costly to adapt the designs so they're a little more fitting of the area?

who is the aldeman for this ward? Phyllis Young?

I think the comments are on target and on the money -- or at least the money that could be made by taking full advantage of the opportunity.



S. Broadway is on the cusp of becoming a Main Street district. However, the new strip center will have it's back to the Main Street. The pattern along 7th Street north is parking lots for businesses that face the Main Street.



7th Street is an arterial street that carries through traffic. The opportunity lost by facing the new businesses to 7th may end up being huge. The underlying issue may be the lack of any vision whatsoever for the future of S. Broadway. This is problematic because commerce and retail tax revenues will be lost. Maybe the paradigm hasn't yet shifted from one of decline to one of growth? A realization that the sum of a Main Street (business district) is greater than that of it's parts (a new Panera and Starbucks)?



There also doesn't appear to be a placemaking mentality. People will come and go to the new businesses rather than come and stay and spend more and go. The goal should be to increase the value of each visit instead of just trying to get a single sale. This is the value chain.



It would seem to me the ideal would be to attract people to come, stay, spend, work, and then maybe live in the area. Why do we mine shallow when there's gold in them there hills? Let's encourage going deeper.

Matt wrote:I think the comments are on target and on the money -- or at least the money that could be made by taking full advantage of the opportunity.



S. Broadway is on the cusp of becoming a Main Street district. However, the new strip center will have it's back to the Main Street. The pattern along 7th Street north is parking lots for businesses that face the Main Street.



7th Street is an arterial street that carries through traffic. The opportunity lost by facing the new businesses to 7th may end up being huge. The underlying issue may be the lack of any vision whatsoever for the future of S. Broadway. This is problematic because commerce and retail tax revenues will be lost. Maybe the paradigm hasn't yet shifted from one of decline to one of growth? A realization that the sum of a Main Street (business district) is greater than that of it's parts (a new Panera and Starbucks)?



There also doesn't appear to be a placemaking mentality. People will come and go to the new businesses rather than come and stay and spend more and go. The goal should be to increase the value of each visit instead of just trying to get a single sale. This is the value chain.



It would seem to me the ideal would be to attract people to come, stay, spend, work, and then maybe live in the area. Why do we mine shallow when there's gold in them there hills? Let's encourage going deeper.

Great post, Matt. You've also touched upon the importance of one other reform that would be crucial to the city's future: redrawing neighborhood boundaries.



While the east side of South Seventh Street may not technically be in Soulard, for all intents and purposes, it's very much a part of Soulard (like it or not in its present form). People living in and visiting Soulard will most certainly use the Starbucks and Panera (especially since the Coffee Garden made the unfortunate decision to close during the early afternoon hours), so why not make that stretch of Seventh part of the Soulard neighborhood, and reform planning and zoning to reflect the street's status as part of the neighborhood and not just the eastern border?



The same could be done for other neighborhoods where a major street serves as a neighborhood boundary. South Kingshighway could definitely benefit from redrawing the boundaries south of Arsenal Street. There are stretches of the street that would be difficult to change to conform to urban standards like the car dealerships, but the bulk of the street and the businesses within could certainly benefit from better planning and land use. And I'd still like to see the Christy Plaza area redeveloped, but that's another thread for another time. Redrawing the neighborhood boundaries to affect change along key commercial corridors would be a great start.

not that I'm a big fan of the Boulevard in Brentwood, but that kind of new development would be preferable to what they are doing on 7th St.

To have the new retail come up to the street with parking in back would be similar to the stores that face Brentwood. And that little street (I guess that's the Blvd.) behind them with retail and restaurants would be the role of South Broadway. I know this isn't technically Soulard, but does there have to be a jarring reminder? The area east of 7th Street is not historic in the same sense as the neighborhood, but can't it "blend" more?

^ Boulevard Saint Louis isn't all that bad. I'd love to see something like that on the east side of Seventh instead of the nondescript stuff that's there.

^ well the Boulevard is really an inward looking development with no access to stores from Brentwood (maybe there's one small pass through - though not inviting in any case). There should be storefronts along Broadway with parking in back - not a fake street removed from the Soulard grid with its back to the street.

^ I know what you're saying. I didn't articulate my vision well, but I was thinking of the structures at the Boulevard per se (which are nice) and not the lack of access from Brentwood Boulevard (which is unfortunate).



Buildings like those at Boulevard would be fine for this location IMHO, and I think apartments and condos over them would be an easier sell than those between the Galleria and Interstate 170 in Richmond Heights. However, I agree with you, an inward-facing development wouldn't work here. Turn the Boulevard-like buildings around where they face Seventh Street, put the garage(s) in back, and I think you'd have a winner.

Will this project at least be using Soulard-ish architectural details such as red brick, or will it just look like something built at Manchester and 141?

^ I'm merely speculating, so I could be dead wrong, but I'll guess it'll look like the latter.

Nice work by Mr. Patterson:



Link



Hope it's okay with Steve that I posted this picture:

yeah I saw that sign when I was riding my bike Sunday. I know it's just a weedy lot now, but considering Broadway/7thSt. is the link between downtown and Soulard don't we want something at least somewhat urban looking here?

Haven't any STL developers ever been to another city and seen what urban design looks like? From their designs it seems they've never left Chesterfield. What can we do to stop this?

piece of sh*t

I was getting ready to eat lunch, and now I think I've lost my appetite.

is this the same as the "soulard gets 2 stripmalls" thread?

^

I thought about adding it to that thread - Soulard gets THREE stripmalls - but figured this development was so crappy, it deserved a little extra attention this morning.

ThreeOneFour wrote:I was getting ready to eat lunch, and now I think I've lost my appetite.

I wish I would have seen this before eating.

While I hate the design of this latest mall/plaza, can this area really be described as Soulard? Since when did Soulard grow north of Park and east of 7th/Broadway?

dweebe wrote:While I hate the design of this latest mall/plaza, can this area really be described as Soulard? Since when did Soulard grow north of Park and east of 7th/Broadway?

Well, if we titled the thread "Kosciusko gets three stripmalls," no one would know what we're talking about.

The Bread Co. signage is now up and Starbucks has begun to take shape. They did an absolutely terrific job of bringing a little bit of 141 into one of the most historic neighborhoods in the city. Not that it will serve any purpose, but my own spite will serve as self gratification to avoid both establishments.

^ here here.