urbanSTL

I've always heard that there has been resistance among long-time Soulard Market vendors to improve the market too much, lest they be priced out/transform the character. There have been plenty of markets/food halls across the country that have been spiffed up specifically to attract a higher-end clientele (I'm not saying that's good or bad -- just noting it). St. Roch Market in New Orleans comes to mind.

All of that said, I'd like to see the market be better maintained for sure, if not substantially rehauled. In particular, the 7th Street side is awful. The street should be narrowed back to its old width in my opinion (essentially halved in size). I love the concept shown above, addxb2! (Side note: this portion of the discussion should probably go into a Soulard Market thread though).

I will say they finally caught up on a lot of the differed maintenance to the exterior of the structure. New roof and a lot of the rotting fascia has been replaced. It's still an outdated farmers market, but at least it's a fixed up outdated farmers market I suppose. They aren't even open on Sundays! What a missed opportunity. 

It's a shame they can't find a way to expand and modernize. In an ideal world the Soulard Farmer's Market is the cultural centerpiece of a dense neighborhood connecting Downtown to Soulard. Instead what we have is a highway, the tip of Soulard, and 180 degrees of auto oriented neighborhood across 7th. 

Koscuisko north of Russell is one of our highest potential neighborhoods for 5 over 1 construction with it's proximity to Soulard and Downtown. I could be wrong, but the area seems essentially NIMBY proof because nobody currently lives there to oppose dense projects. It blows my mind that it hasn't happened yet on basically any scale. Soulard is dope but imagine what it would look like with another 5000 neighbors right across 7th.

stldotage wrote: ↑

4:13 PM - Aug 17

I've always heard that there has been resistance among long-time Soulard Market vendors to improve the market too much, lest they be priced out/transform the character. There have been plenty of markets/food halls across the country that have been spiffed up specifically to attract a higher-end clientele (I'm not saying that's good or bad -- just noting it). St. Roch Market in New Orleans comes to mind.

All of that said, I'd like to see the market be better maintained for sure, if not substantially rehauled. In particular, the 7th Street side is awful. The street should be narrowed back to its old width in my opinion (essentially halved in size). I love the concept shown above, addxb2! (Side note: this portion of the discussion should probably go into a Soulard Market thread though).

Yeah, I always heard that about the current vendors protesting but I am no longer as sympathetic as I was.  I'm sure there are creative ways to keep the character while improving the basics. 

Absent a significant capital investment, this genuine regional amenity gem is going to become more and more and more irrelevant. At that point, the old school vendors wont' have anyone to sell to.

Hell, create a Soulard Market-specific TIF/CID. 

The biggest concern is that without capital investment (particularly the updated electrical) it will eventually burn.

its been over 20 years ago now but there was a plan put together by the city with Kiku Obata as the designer to clean up and modernize the market and there was a huge push back from the vendors against it. Something really needs to happen now, the charm of what I remember from years ago is not there anymore. 

Vendors will always be opposed but they need to be told either updates occur or there's a risk the market closes and they're pushed elsewhere. If the concern is losing the existing vendors or the market itself, I say push ahead with a renovation. New vendors will be able to fill the renovated spaces at the end of the day. The St. Louis area isn't like other cities that have multiple markets of comparable or growing size, so this has a unique factor to it (besides it being old) that'll attract vendors. Do the renovations in phases so that operations aren't too disrupted.  

I would love for this to be something like Findlay Market in Cincinnati.  Agreed they need to update it, changing out some of the vendors might actually be a good thing too.

I was a vendor there for a season. I don't think vendors would be opposed to stall upgrades. 

Rotted wood replacement, the addition of pull-down screens (pigeons currently have free reign), concrete repairs and/ or some kind of epoxy coating. Electric heaters for when it gets unbearably cold, and overhead fans for summer months. As a vendor, it beats setting up in tower grove with a tent. The turnout in Soulard has been hit with TGFM becoming so popular. 

I hope if they do a renovation they find some use for the basketball court upstairs

KC is a nice model as well and open seven days a week. Plenty of vendors for fresh food in booths like Soulard but also quasi-retail spaces for permanent vendors almost like an outdoor food hall.

They also have modern terminals with GARAGE DOORS for comfortable shopping in all seasons. The area of the market (KC and Cincy) is also completely surrounded by retail and other things to do. You can truly spend a whole afternoon at one of these markets. Soulard is half surrounded by parking lots and the good retail buildings that do exist nearby don't get enough foot traffic from the one big day a week to thrive properly like in these other markets (the retail next to Domino's being used as residential is a tragedy, not to mention the long vacant Library building, Franklin's and the other underutilized retail space on Lafayette.)

While I now live in the CWE, I lived in Soulard for 23 years.  Loved it and will always love it. (never changing the handle. ever. LOL).  Still own Soulard property and return often.

Soulard Market's point of differentiation is its location. On Saturdays, you can make a half-day out of it.  Hit the market, stroll the neighborhood for truly unique architecture, then lunch and/or drinks on a brick patio.  No other local farmers market can offer that.  Soulard Market=STL. Kirkwood Farmers Market?  Any older suburb in the US.

Be that as it may, you know how Soulard Market changed in those 23 years?  only for the worse. more worn, more dirty, more old, weirder vendors. just degraded.  Zero if any meaningful capital investment by the city.  (EDIT: to be fair, there was a somewhat recent minor capital investment but it seems like the absolute bare minimum. half ass really.) And to be super selfish, all those tax dollars I sent the city working and living in the Soulard? No idea where it went. Very little understanding of where/how the tax money I paid to the city affected my day-to-day life. Very little of it was being spent in Soulard.  (same experience n the CWE, btw.)

On Twitter, I've been yammering a lot about how that I was a big-time critic of TIFs/CIDs for a long time. I found them as un-needed tax subsidies for development.  No more. I've flipped.  At least with TIFs/CIDs, I have a much much clearer understanding of where the $$ from that line item on my receipt is going. I know it's not this straight forward, but that $$ is staying right where I spent the $$ to keep up the CID/TIF area. So, Soulard Market should have it's very own TIF/CID.  Save that cultural gem.  

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

1:41 PM - Aug 21

I hope if they do a renovation they find some use for the basketball court upstairs

I'm sure there are more creative and activating concepts, but it seems like it would be fairly easy to turn it into a popular event space. Bet that a lot of people would want to have their wedding receptions, rehearsal dinners, company events at Soulard Market. And then go out to the neighborhood bars afterward.

It's not a bad idea to email the alder to explain your concerns for lack of vision. I'll do it right now. 
coxantwi@stlouis-mo.gov

addxb2 wrote: ↑

8:35 PM - Aug 22

It's not a bad idea to email the alder to explain your concerns for lack of vision. I'll do it right now. 
coxantwi@stlouis-mo.gov

Good idea. will do that today.  Ironically, the last time I emailed an alderperson was Phyllis Y when I questioned the wisdom of using a CID for the Bohemian Hill development.  Felt unnecessary.   That development is now 2/3 vacant with a walgreens that's limiting hours but I will say that the CID has ensured that, even went vacant, it looks decent.  LOL

With an event over the weekend, the history of the market was detailed on the local news last night and there was mention of $7M allocated to it for renovations.  Does anyone have any insights or details about this?

robertn42 wrote: ↑

3:34 PM - Aug 31

With an event over the weekend, the history of the market was detailed on the local news last night and there was mention of $7M allocated to it for renovations.  Does anyone have any insights or details about this?

I saw that story and wondered the exact same thing.  Where is this mythical $7M an when/where will it be spent?

Is that for the capital needs listed last year? See the posts upthread.

Not sure if this has been posted before, but here's a recent Q&A with Soulard manager Bob Ray (formerly of the Washington Avenue Post).

A Q&A with Bob Ray, Soulard Farmers Market Manager https://share.google/g42DDpHzyELlTBiAl

framer wrote: ↑

10:49 PM - Aug 31

Not sure if this has been posted before, but here's a recent Q&A with Soulard manager Bob Ray (formerly of the Washington Avenue Post).

A Q&A with Bob Ray, Soulard Farmers Market Manager https://share.google/g42DDpHzyELlTBiAl

Thanks for sharing!

Now, I don't mean to pick on Bob here. If I were in his shoes, I'd be singing the exact same tune, but the list and the actual outcome for everything on this list is highly underwhelming.  

The City continues to invest in the market. Last year, significant improvements were made to the market’s exterior, including electrical updates, new roofing, fascia, and soffit over the vendor wings, and tuckpointing of the entire market building. In addition, many of the architectural and style elements of the market which have become worn down by age and weather are being repaired and preserved.

That's table stakes stuff. Like a homeowner bragging about cutting his overgrown lawn or changing 19-year-old AC filters.