Anyone heard about any movement on the renovation? This is such an asset for a city and it really needs some attention.
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Current vendors are holding it up. Fear a drastic transformation will price them out. Basically a gentrification issue.
Funding is also an issue. Some said that recent projects like the Arch Grounds siphoned money away and consumed much of the corporate donors.
Funding is also an issue. Some said that recent projects like the Arch Grounds siphoned money away and consumed much of the corporate donors.
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so 2.5 years later... are vendors still obstructing any substantial improvements to the market? this sh*t is unreasonable. structures have to be maintained.
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Good question. Anyone know?
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Maybe a dumb question but how do the vendors have any say? Do they have to help pay for improvements? If not, then why do they even get a say in it? If it has something to do with a contract for their space, I would just change the contracts whenever they renew to say the place can do upgrades without their consent.
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^ my guess is that vendors are threatening to pull out for fear that their rents will increase.
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A proposal comes out for changes. Vendors say the changes that will enhance the market will also hike rent pushing them out in favor of vendors with the capability to absorb the rent. They band together and make noise. Proposal gets shelved and we are stuck with an underperforming asset.jshank83 wrote:Maybe a dumb question but how do the vendors have any say? Do they have to help pay for improvements? If not, then why do they even get a say in it? If it has something to do with a contract for their space, I would just change the contracts whenever they renew to say the place can do upgrades without their consent.
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All seems kind of silly - if the tenants are threatening to leave because they're worried that the rent will force them out, then what exactly is the risk from the owner's perspective? Not much leverage if your threat is to do the exact thing you say you don't want to happen - i.e. vacate. If you raise rent, they leave one way or another.
If the market for the improved space warrants a rent increase, that typically means you've got some tenants behind them that are willing to pay it or it's valuable enough to the entrenched tenant that they will pony up. If you have neither, raising rent is not a great business decision.
Regardless, Soulard Market could certainly use a few touch-ups.
If the market for the improved space warrants a rent increase, that typically means you've got some tenants behind them that are willing to pay it or it's valuable enough to the entrenched tenant that they will pony up. If you have neither, raising rent is not a great business decision.
Regardless, Soulard Market could certainly use a few touch-ups.
Soulard Market needs a deep cleaning, fresh paint and some basic infrastructure-type improvements. That's it. We don't need it to be some yuppie-laden nonsense, too much like a whole foods.
The current clientele is a perfect representation of the people who actually live in the city and it needs to stay that way.
As a city-owned asset, it needs some city-tax-payer investments. why it hasn't? not sure.
and, of course, I'm biased. Lived blocks away for a long time.
The current clientele is a perfect representation of the people who actually live in the city and it needs to stay that way.
As a city-owned asset, it needs some city-tax-payer investments. why it hasn't? not sure.
and, of course, I'm biased. Lived blocks away for a long time.
I personally love the place. I do think they could clean it up a bit without fundamentally changing the clients/vendors. Just don't muscle out Peter's Pork Rinds.
Absolutely, I love the market and the zoo because it represents STL so well. I think you can update it without losing its appeal. One plan that I really liked was putting rolling doors in to make it more walkable in the winter.soulardx wrote: ↑Aug 01, 2017Soulard Market needs a deep cleaning, fresh paint and some basic infrastructure-type improvements. That's it. We don't need it to be some yuppie-laden nonsense, too much like a whole foods.
The current clientele is a perfect representation of the people who actually live in the city and it needs to stay that way.
As a city-owned asset, it needs some city-tax-payer investments. why it hasn't? not sure.
and, of course, I'm biased. Lived blocks away for a long time.
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Kick all the vendors out that buy food at produce row. Keep all the ones that grow their own produce. Have a few more eateries.
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That sounds like a great way to make it a clone of the Kirkwood farmer's market. Or any of a thousand other little fancy trendy suburban farmer's markets. Soulard is special. And it's really not a Farmer's Market in the modern trendy sense. It's a grocery. I'm all in favor of supporting small independent grocers. And produce row, for that matter. There's plenty of space for both. I'd kill to have the South Public Market open in the same way. Or the old market at Hampton Village that later became a Schnucks. Or the Union Farmer's Market. Or the one on Biddle for that matter. All of them used to be more or less the same thing. Soulard is a little fragment of a bygone era. No reason to update it so much that it's the same as everyone else's stuff. It's that bygone era that gives it its charm. It absolutely needs those grocers.downtown2007 wrote: ↑Aug 04, 2017Kick all the vendors out that buy food at produce row. Keep all the ones that grow their own produce. Have a few more eateries.
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Yeah, I think the new plan if I remember correctly was to separate those two things, to have one row of local farmers and one of the resellers so we don't lose the cheap food part of it.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Aug 04, 2017That sounds like a great way to make it a clone of the Kirkwood farmer's market. Or any of a thousand other little fancy trendy suburban farmer's markets. Soulard is special. And it's really not a Farmer's Market in the modern trendy sense. It's a grocery. I'm all in favor of supporting small independent grocers. And produce row, for that matter. There's plenty of space for both. I'd kill to have the South Public Market open in the same way. Or the old market at Hampton Village that later became a Schnucks. Or the Union Farmer's Market. Or the one on Biddle for that matter. All of them used to be more or less the same thing. Soulard is a little fragment of a bygone era. No reason to update it so much that it's the same as everyone else's stuff. It's that bygone era that gives it its charm. It absolutely needs those grocers.downtown2007 wrote: ↑Aug 04, 2017Kick all the vendors out that buy food at produce row. Keep all the ones that grow their own produce. Have a few more eateries.
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That's good to hear. Not 100% sure what I think of segregating the two things one from the other, but I seem to recall that Soulard was a big part of what keeps Produce Row in business . . . and Produce Row is invaluable to the local restaurant scene; for helping folks obtain high quality fresh ingredients at reasonable prices and so forth. This story was years and years ago, so things may have changed, but things often have odd symbiotic relationships that aren't easily visible. I know resellers are remarkably unpopular with some farmer's market crowds elsewhere, but they can have a place. And in this case they just might be a vital part of several somethings that appear completely unrelated.
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In 2012 (see first page) the city announced a 10 year $14m plan to renovate the market. By 2014 the plan stalled and ever got off the ground. It’s time to start talking about it. I’m sure the place has structural issues but let’s knock out some low hanging cosmetic fruit.
^ For sure. I walk in and/or around it every Saturday, and while it doesn't look like it's crumbling away completely, I can't help but wonder what just a little bit of TLC could do for it. The fact it's been 8 years since something was first proposed means it's probably worse than I can see with my untrained eye. Any chance the renovations would include any sprucing up of the park to the south? Then again I guess there's not much to do with that field because they use it for several events a year.
Somewhat off topic, but it looks like Social House is getting a refresh.
I think they've removed three areas of brick to install garage doors.
Somewhat off topic, but it looks like Social House is getting a refresh.
I think they've removed three areas of brick to install garage doors.- 2,625
I've always had a small dream of the empty grass section of Soulard Park being converted into an old school beer garden. Live music, shade, and seating for people to drink beer and eat food from from the markets vendors.
^ I could not be remembering something, but I think the only seating at this point is that small wooden deck by Julia's Market Cafe that can hold very few people.
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Exactly. My girlfriend and I always pick up a meal when visiting the market and end up sitting on a retaining wall or something. Even some picnic tables would go a long way.
^ True. They could even set them up along the perimeter of the park to keep the middle open for events if they don't feel like moving them. But even then, they still have the open concrete area by 10th & Lafayette.
Not directly related, but it would also be great if the places east of 10th along Lafayette there became stable businesses, too. Franklin's has been vacant for years, the old library can't maintain a tenant, and there's also a vacant lot for sale between them.
Not directly related, but it would also be great if the places east of 10th along Lafayette there became stable businesses, too. Franklin's has been vacant for years, the old library can't maintain a tenant, and there's also a vacant lot for sale between them.
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It's been so long since the plan came out, but I halfway recall there was some discussion of this very issue: that folks wanted seating.