urbanSTL

roger wyoming II wrote:
I'm not so pessimistic. We are adding meaningful daytime population and prospects seem good for continued growth.

Is this a true statement? Even if we add residents downtown. How many stay during they day. Dont more than half leave downtown during the day for work? And with AT&T closing up shop are we not still loosing daytime population? Ive lived and worked down here for 11 years and it seems much less active during the days.

Sorry not trying to start something just hopeing my thinking is wrong on this one.

JuanHamez wrote:
According to the 2010 Census, downtown (census tract 1256) had a 226% gain in population compared to that of 2000.

http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

I think the key will be the AT&T vacancy. I think it can go either way. It could clear the way for a major anchor company to refurbish the building and be based there, along one of the most scenic downtowns in the country. Or it might sit empty for a long long time. I hope the powers that be are working endlessly behind the scenes to make sure the latter does not happen.

Thanks for that stat. Are there stats on how many of those residents work downtown? Also is there a stat on downtown job losses over the same period? Has there been a year with more new jobs created downtown vs losses?

irock7777 wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:
I'm not so pessimistic. We are adding meaningful daytime population and prospects seem good for continued growth.

Is this a true statement? Even if we add residents downtown. How many stay during they day. Dont more than half leave downtown during the day for work? And with AT&T closing up shop are we not still loosing daytime population? Ive lived and worked down here for 11 years and it seems much less active during the days.

Sorry not trying to start something just hopeing my thinking is wrong on this one.

I've worked downtown since the late 90s, and it's significantly less active during the day than it used to be. In that time, we've lost May Co., two major accounting firms - Ernst & Young (to the burbs) and Arthur Anderson (Enron scandal), three major law firms - Armstrong Teasdale, Husch & Eppenberger and Blackwell Sanders (due to its merger with Husch), a major HQ - TWA, and we've seen companies like Bank of America, Union Pacific and AT&T significantly reduce their workforces here.

While there have been some gains, they haven't come close to making up for the losses.

roger wyoming II wrote:^ no doubt there's less than a decade ago; again my focus has been on the past few years.... do you think things are busier than in 2010? Also, a decade ago there was very limited activity on weekends unless a major event was going on.... that has changed significantly due to the residential growth and adds to the retail potential when businesses can expect 7 day traffic rather than 9-5 M-F.

I'm sorry to say this but no things are not busier since 2010, to me. The reason i created an account was because ive noticed it much quieter, during the day, over the last few years. I wanted to see if it was just me or if others agreed. I was hoping SLU would change that but i didnt notice much increase from that. Things are definitively busier in the evenings. But alot of these business rely on daytime traffic and close after work

arch city wrote:Personally, I don't think the city is doing enough to lure retail to downtown. There's no strategy or initiative, it seems. There are certainly enough workers and residents downtown to have more low and middle-end retail than it currently does.

THIS.

Arch, you're more familiar with Houston than I am. When Houston Pavilions lost businesses and the former Foley's flagship bit the dust just months before the former Famous-Barr flagship closed here, Houston's mayor announced the creation of a task force. Months later, the task force completed its work and recommended a plan.

I must confess I am still reading up on exactly what they are doing in Houston. But that's precisely my point- they're doing something. And the closure of Macy's and the failure of adjacent retail spurred city government into action.

When, if ever, will we see a truly proactive approach to attract and retain retailers in downtown St. Louis?

The Partnership has been quiet because they have been without a CEO. Their new CEO just started this month and has been very active on twitter. I would expect to start hearing more from them.

downtown2007 wrote:The Partnership has been quiet because they have been without a CEO. Their new CEO just started thus month and has been very active on twitter. I would expect to start heRing more from them.

For those keeping score at home, it's https://twitter.com/DougWoodruffSTL

irock7777 wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:^ no doubt there's less than a decade ago; again my focus has been on the past few years.... do you think things are busier than in 2010? Also, a decade ago there was very limited activity on weekends unless a major event was going on.... that has changed significantly due to the residential growth and adds to the retail potential when businesses can expect 7 day traffic rather than 9-5 M-F.

I'm sorry to say this but no things are not busier since 2010, to me. The reason i created an account was because ive noticed it much quieter, during the day, over the last few years. I wanted to see if it was just me or if others agreed. I was hoping SLU would change that but i didnt notice much increase from that. Things are definitively busier in the evenings. But alot of these business rely on daytime traffic and close after work

I agree completely. I wish it weren't so, and I hope things improve in the future.

arch city wrote:^I know that St. Louis (and/or) the Partnership for Downtown St. Louis had a downtown retail study some years back. Some consultant out of Philly studied the market and came up with a lot of recommendations.

Downtown gained some retail traction as a result of the study, but that was when Washington Avenue was undergoing its initial renaissance, I believe.

Fast-forward to a different time (2014), a continuous growing downtown residential demographic, slow-growing daytime population, post-Macy's and post-recession era. To me, it seems like it is time for a new downtown retail study. The Partnership for Downtown St. Louis has been awfully quiet lately - at least to me. I know they are helping to push the streetcar, but what about a new retail study?

Retail and dining at MX has been awesome, but it seems as if there is helter-skelter/pockmark retail/dining development downtown and no urgency to retool original plans.

Arch, thanks for this as well as the background on the retail task force commissioned by the mayor of Houston.

I remember the initial push for retail downtown a decade ago here in St. Louis, and there were some success stories. Some of the businesses from the first wave are still around, although some did not survive. We've lost our indoor mall and our last traditional department store, but we've gained a livelier Washington Avenue streetscape with MX and an excellent albeit small anchor for the Old Post Office area (Culinaria). So there are some positives along with the negatives. But what's next?

One of my concerns and one of the things not addressed by the first plan is how to concentrate retail and restaurants in a city with a decentralized workforce and a relatively large downtown in terms of area. There are fewer workers in the core of downtown, which make the streets feel considerably emptier during the day even with increased activity in the evening as DeBaliviere and others here have noted previously in this discussion. And when the first wave of retailers came back to downtown over the last decade, they were scattered about. Great additions to downtown, no doubt, but it wasn't the most inviting place to shop on a Saturday when one had to walk past some rather desolate and empty blocks to get from one business to the next. And there were still a lot of businesses that simply couldn't justify being open on the weekends, even restaurants. I remember directing some visitors from Macy's to Culinaria not long after the market opened because no other restaurants in the immediate area were open on an early Saturday afternoon.

This concern also leads me to my next question: What area should be the focus for downtown retail? There is some retail along Washington Avenue, but with the exception of Culinaria, it never felt to me like Olive Street, once the east-west axis for retail in downtown, was given all that much consideration by the DTSLP or City Hall. Houston's task force came up with some pretty specific recommendations and a pretty focused plan to boost retail in the core of downtown. Where should our core be? Should it be along Olive Street and/or up Sixth and Seventh streets as it was in the days when Famous-Barr and Stix Baer & Fuller anchored the area, or should it radiate south from Washington Avenue? What about future phases of BPV- how should it relate to the rest of downtown once it's built out? And what can be done to attract retailers to these areas? Never mind the empty Railway Exchange which requires a comprehensive plan of its own. There are some empty, depressing blocks surrounding it as well. And there's still a fair amount of empty space in the MX garage retail space itself. Hopefully new leadership for Downtown St. Louis will help. But it'd be really nice to see City Hall take a more proactive role. It does NOT seem to be a priority for the current mayor, who is likely to be in office until at least 2067.

I hate to bring this up again, but if and when Missouri jumps on the marijuana legalization bandwagon, it's really going to help bring many of our dead storefront back to life. In Colorado, there are now more dispensaries than there are Starbucks. I could see there being a pretty sizable concentration of these Downtown without cannibalizing each others business. They will also anchor new restaurants because these customers are going to be hungry. I'm sure they will also wanna groove on some crunchy entertainment and shopping in the 'hood as well.

I'm speaking as someone who personally is not a chronically stoned hipster but as someone who wants to see the local economy flourish and who wants non-violent criminals like pot smokers to no longer be a priority for cops, especially in a city like St. Louis where, let's face it, there's just too much violent crime to justify wasting police resources on chasing people with a plant. Tourism from St. Louis to Colorado is up almost 20% already because of what they have done. Let's make it so people are coming to Missouri seeking the freedom to get toasted, too. This would give us an extremely unique, popular, vibrant Downtown. We'll just have a few weird smells to get used to. In short, these big dispensaries would really help anchor other businesses, lure tourists and encourage more development Downtown.

314- the answer to your question IMO for retail (not bars/nightclubs, alcohol centric restaurants) is Olive St from 4th to Tucker (12th). It's the spine of the CBD (similar to I64 to the St Louis region). Culinaria is the starting point. Go east and west from there.

Thoughts:

Finding a 2nd anchor to the CBD by re-leasing the first floor of the former Macy's space needs to be the first priority. Don't know who the tenant(s) needs to be, but I still think its ridiculous that CVS or Walgreens doesn't have a store in the downtown CBD. 12,000 plus permanent population (that's growing), six figure daytime population, tourists, conventions, hotels, sporting events, etc. While I think some of you are insane to think the CBD can support some of the retailers thrown out by some on this forum, this is a category I think is dropping the ball. Off the top of my head, some others: Jos A Bank/Mens Warehouse, a small urban prototype of Office Depot, one of the dollar stores, full service fitness facility, and more (but least important) quick serve restaurants.

I also strongly believe that we have to get rid of the one way system/grid we have downtown. This will make it easier to get around and easier to sell a particular street block to tenants/retailers. Plus, it slows traffic down for better exposure to the storefronts.