urbanSTL

I retract my earlier statement about LBB's future rent. While true in part, the situation was actually more complicated that just landlord/tenant. It is still my understanding that there isn't necessarily another potential tenant though.

bprop wrote:I still have a hard time figuring in my head how a "town" of 10,000 or 15,000 or whatever downtown's true population is doesn't support a core of neighborhood businesses.

I've often thought about this as well. Obviously comparing downtown STL to a town of 10,000 is apples to oranges, but it's an interesting inquiry nonetheless. The truth is that a 10,000 resident town is not going to have a whole lot of retail. Take Mexico, MO as an example, which has 11,500 population. Mexico has Wal-Mart, IGA, Aldi, two Dollar Generals, O'Reilly Auto-Parts, Walgreen's, RadioShack, Family Video, Ace Hardware, discount shoe store, discount clothing store, small movie theater, liquor store, tattoo parlor, pay day loan stores, a rent-to-own furniture store, resale/antique mall/pawn shop discount stores, barber shop, and a bunch of banks and gas stations.

I think the most glaring shortcoming for downtown is the Walgreens. Others where Mexico bests downtown: RadioShack, Hardware store, shoe store, clothing store, dollar store. Again, it's comparing a neighborhood to an entire town, and DT does have plenty of shops that Mexico doesn't (book store - Left Bank - for now, bike shop -Big Shark, fashion boutique - Collective @ MX come to mind, and Cardinals Team Store come to mind), but it does seem downtown has some catching up to do in the retail sector. Obviously downtown is lightyears ahead of a place like Mexico in terms of dining, drinking, entertainment, and hospitality/lodging.

Wabash, are you from Mexico? That's actually where I am right now, looking at the very Walgreens you mentioned. This is my hometown, and I have always wondered why downtown St. Louis doesn't also have those businesses, too. The population of Mexico has remained about the same for decades.

fwiw, this is from downtown now:


The emerging downtown marketplace offers retail businesses a diverse customer base with an Average Daily Population of 145,300 people. Over 150 new street-level businesses have opened, adding activity and excitement to the streets of downtown while providing local residents, office workers and overnight visitors with a growing variety of shopping, dining and service offerings.

•Daily Residential Population - 13,500
•Daily Worker Population – 88,000
•Daily Hotel Guests – 7,050 (2.6 million annually)
•Daily Event/Attraction Visitors - 36,750 (16.8 million annually)

Since 2003, over 150 new street-level businesses have opened. These businesses have added activity and excitement to the streets of downtown while serving local residents, office workers and overnight visitors.

^ I learned that it was a punk club in the late 70s!

roger wyoming II wrote:And what's a downtown visit without something unexpected? Today was the bomb threat that closed down Market and cleared out some courts buildings... ah, the joys of downtown!

Maybe the bomb threat forced people to go out and eat at restaurants instead of at their desks!

Once the STLPD moves into their never building what are the plans for the older building? Have they ever said what they'll do with it or is it up in the air?

I spent the entire day downtown Sunday with my wife and 2 daughters (2 and 4 months). It was busy and beautiful. The streets were filled with families, residents, and tourists. Restaurants were doing well, especially Bailey's Range and Rooster (what an asset David Bailey is for the city). After brunch our 2 year old had a blast at City Garden with all the other kids. The experience made me very nostalgic for our loft.

Walking around there are still a lot of gaps. I truly believe a street (Olive or Locust) needs to be dedicated to retail for it to take off. I picture something like 16th street in Denver. Without critical mass to drive people there the small stand-alone retail ventures fizzle within a couple years.

Entertainment will help. Blues Museum will be a great asset. Future phases of BPV should have some good offerings. Maybe DT can land a Ripley's, Legoland, or Madame Tussaud's. Those are usually busy places when I have seen them in other cities. The duck Peabody thing is supposed to be a big draw too, right? Plus there's the proposed STL Sports Hall of Fame. C+A+R should bring lots more people DT to see what the big deal is. The proposed streetcar will anchor plenty of retail/dining. Hopefully the Orpheum can bring people DT as well, especially if it shows movies most other theatres aren't showing. Maybe a deal similar to the Moolah's $3 midnight movies will work.

DT probably won't attract much retail you can't find in the County, so I don't think most people will go out of their way to shop there. If it can land some specialty shops, that might help.

Maybe the only way we can get a full Walgreen's downtown is to bring Walgreen Co. here? The company reportedly is looking to move its HQ from the burbs to downtown Chicago, apparently seeking 1 million sq. ft. at the Old Main Post Office Building.

Maybe Saint Louis should purchase the ATT Building and Railway Exchange Buildings for a song and dance and offer Walgreen their choice of building for free. Give 'em an IKEA gift card as well for furnishings.

^It will be interesting to see if the move proves successful. Downtown Cincy definitely has a stronger retail scene than downtown St. Louis, but it's still tough at the top end. They have a Tiffany's, but they're also losing their Saks. Also, downtown Cincy is more rental units than condos (I believe even moreso than STL). I would think renters would be less likely to upgrade to a top-end customized home sound system than home owners.

Work is going on it the old Hamilton jewelers building at locust and 8th. I Saw a crew inside taring and cleaning out the inside of the old jewelers store front. Any one know what is going on?

^ sweet! its a great location and one of my faves... maybe they are going to put back the punk club somebody mentioned was there in the 70s! More seriously, I mentioned elsewhere that the rooftop would make for a pretty splendid spot for a bar/restaurant, but the first floor also is desirable for retail. Anyway, I hope something creative goes in!

A '70s punk or disco place would actually bring some peeps downtown, I think. I'd check it out.

Yeah downtown needs more music venues. Smaller ones like the Grove has. Just no hip hop.

Music venues def bring people out. Just gotta make sure we don't get so many that they cannibalize each other's business. I wish DT had ALL the kind of stuff you see on Cherokee, Euclid, The Grove, and the Loop. It doesn't, though. And that's why it's not where most people hang out. When my friends ask to hang out, we more often go to S. Gravois than Downtown. S. Gravois has cool venues and bars that DT just doesn't have. Lemmons has free pizzas on Mondays if you buy a pitcher of beer! Silver Ball Room has like 20 pinballs machines! Can't find that stuff Downtown. And I mean, S. Gravois isn't even one of the so-called "cool" areas, either!

S. Gravois isnt cool but its part of a 1.5 mile radius of Lemmons, Peppers, the Mack, Friendlys, Civil Life, Amsterdam Pub, Tower Pub, Three Monkeys... where most of the 21-30 crowd that live in the area go out drinking.

Yeah, so it's pretty cool. It just hasn't branded itself like the Loop or the Grove have. That stretch, given some flair, could truly form an identity of its own.