urbanSTL

Framer wrote:Really! After all, what's the average light-cycle anyway, 40 or 50 seconds? We all just need to learn to relax and slow down a bit.

I agree that we all need to relax a little behind the wheel, but there are still several intersections in the city where the wait time is much longer than 40-50 seconds, and the timing of some signals defies logic.



I'm convinced Stevie Wonder programmed some of the lights. Yesterday at Lansdowne and Wabash avenues, I had to stop for a red on eastbound Lansdowne to let- yes- zero cars through in a minute and a half! (I did see a Schnucks plastic bag blow through part of the intersection, but I think I could've dodged it if I had a green light.) The wait didn't bother me, but the timing of the light defies logic since there are cameras there (solely to regulate traffic flow, not for red light enforcement, at least not yet).



Our forum friend in the media, Joe Bonwich, wrote a post several months ago in the thread about synchronized traffic lights in which he posted several snippets from the archives (some dating back to 2003) which claimed the city was working on synchronizing signals at major intersections and would have the work done within a year. Well, almost five years later, there are still major intersections with poorly timed lights, yet there was no delay in installing red-light cameras?



I agree with others about the benefits of red-light cameras, and I certainly don't feel sorry for those that carelessly run them, but I still have to wonder if safety is really the city's priority here.

There are a lot of lights that simply defy logic. I don't understand why more lights don't switch to flashing yellow or red in the wee hours of the morning. That would make things much easier, instead of sitting at a stop light when the entire area is deserted.

ThreeOneFour wrote:I still have to wonder if safety is really the city's priority here.

Maybe not, but it would be a nice side effect. I have to think that the system will eventually pay for itself, and if there is a reduction in the number of accidents, that means our police officers will be spending less time writing up tickets, accident reports, etc.

DeBaliviere wrote:

ThreeOneFour wrote:I still have to wonder if safety is really the city's priority here.

Maybe not, but it would be a nice side effect. I have to think that the system will eventually pay for itself, and if there is a reduction in the number of accidents, that means our police officers will be spending less time writing up tickets, accident reports, etc.

Oh, I agree. And I'm not convinced the SLMPD has enough resources to devote as much manpower to traffic enforcement as we citizens would like, so these cameras are definitely a plus at busy intersections like Hampton Avenue @ Chippewa Street and Skinker Boulevard @ Clayton Road.



I just wish TPTB would finish what they started with traffic signal synchronization. Aside from the reduction of congestion and emissions, motorist safety would improve in areas with little traffic (I don't lose sleep over the possibility of being carjacked, but it still happens unfortunately). The latter would especially be important at night- and like trent said- I don't understand why many intersections don't switch to flashing yellow and red signals after a certain hour. Obviously that wouldn't work at Clayton and Skinker, but it would still improve travel time and motorist safety during the wee hours of the morning through many intersections.

If it takes our leadership 4 years (!) to get the little things fixed, what hope do we have for the big issues?



In fact, traffic signals downtown have regressed in the last year or so instead of improving. Fourteenth has taken over Tucker's traffic because of the deterioration of N Tucker, but the signals are worse than ever. 14th used to be much quicker than Tucker just because the signals were more timed - one could shoot from Washington down to Market without stopping. Now, however, it carries much more traffic and the signals are all over the place - one is routinely stopped at 2 lights between Market and Washington.



Don't even get me started about Market between Compton and Jefferson. Those 2 stupid signals for AGEdwards (which are nothing more than driveways) hit you with a red EVERY TIME going eastbound. Market is the major E-W arterial downtown and yet you can bank on stopping at two driveways for tumbleweeds, only to go two blocks and hit the end of the Jefferson signal. Unbelievable.



I am a mostly a pedestrian downtown and I don't think people should fly through without hitting some lights. However, when things are this bad they cause more people to speed trying to make up time. I have noticed that people blowing reds at the end of yellow signals has increased a lot in the past couple of years.

I asked. There are 60+ redlight cameras sending out violations in the metro area. Thirteen of those cameras are in the City, all at intersections which had the greatest number of accidents in 2005.



One of the most eloquent bits of testimony for redlight cameras is on the website of the Florissant police departntment:



http://www.florissantmo.com/policenew/p ... deos.shtml



As a person who bikes and walks more than I drive, I think I tend to watch out for redlight runners more carefully than do more frequent drivers. There are some very bad drivers out there.

How many people run red lights because they are completely fed up with sitting at a light that is red for no reason? Get the lights timed, and you will deal with a lot less road rage, and a lot fewer people trying to squeeze through the light. I see people run lights on Tucker southbound all the time because it actually makes sense in terms of how the lights function. If you run one at the right time, you actually have a pretty decent chance of making it through several others that are green. If you sit there like you are supposed to, you hit every god damned red light between Convention and Clark. For every really bad driver out there running lights, there is a person who is just taking a calculated risk fueled by their frustration with the idiocy of the nonexistent timing system.

Do you think a light in the City is timed wrongly, or is just broken? Use this useful link: http://stlcin.missouri.org/csb/csb1.cfm

It's definitely timing, or lack thereof.

Does anybody know if there is a camera for turning eastbound on Arsenal from northbound Kingshighway? I know there are cameras there, but I am not sure of how they are set up. Knowing full well that there were cameras there, I pulled up at that red light last night. Stopped for a full two seconds, and then turned right. I saw a flash, but I am not sure that it was for me. It ***** better not be. My girlfriend was behind me (we had just talked about the cameras there) and she saw me stop. When I got home, I called both the traffic division and the city counselors office to go on the record as protesting the legality of the (potential) ticket. If these things are going to start giving tickets for legal driving we are all in trouble. Somebody said that these were easy to fight if you in fact did not break the law in another thread. Innov8tion? Does anyone know if this is the case? The camera flashed AFTER I had stopped (when I proceeded to turn), doesn't this mean that they are just going to have a picture of me turning at the intersection and not stopped at the light?

If you stopped behind the stop line, then made your turn -- you won't get a violation notice. Your car has to be completely behind the stopline when the light turns and you have to keep going through the light anyway for the photo to be reviewed as a possible violation. The violations don't come from the cameras; they come from the police department that reviews the photos AND the video that the camera made of possible violations.



If you do get a violation notice, you will also get a link to the photo and the video of the incident to see if the digital evidence supports your recollection.



It is usually definitive.

So where are all these cameras now? I posted a list a few pages back but it didn't include Arsenal and Kingshwy. I noticed cameras at Chippewa and Kingshwy too.

Good to know public eye, I should be fine. Do they just take a picture of everyone that turns right on red and then review it later?

There's a red light camera at southbound Memorial and Walnut. There are none at Chestnut, Pine or Market. I swear there's a wreck at one of those intersections at least once a week. The City should add cameras there as well. There was just another wreck an hour ago.

brickandmortar wrote:So where are all these cameras now? I posted a list a few pages back but it didn't include Arsenal and Kingshwy. I noticed cameras at Chippewa and Kingshwy too.

While heading out for lunch today, I noticed the "photo enforced" signs ahead of the Chippewa/Kingshighway intersection for the first time.



As I've said before, I just wish the city could be this proactive in synchronizing signals properly.

TGE-ATW wrote:Does anybody know if there is a camera for turning eastbound on Arsenal from northbound Kingshighway? I know there are cameras there, but I am not sure of how they are set up. Knowing full well that there were cameras there, I pulled up at that red light last night. Stopped for a full two seconds, and then turned right. I saw a flash, but I am not sure that it was for me. It f***ing better not be. My girlfriend was behind me (we had just talked about the cameras there) and she saw me stop. When I got home, I called both the traffic division and the city counselors office to go on the record as protesting the legality of the (potential) ticket. If these things are going to start giving tickets for legal driving we are all in trouble. Somebody said that these were easy to fight if you in fact did not break the law in another thread. Innov8tion? Does anyone know if this is the case? The camera flashed AFTER I had stopped (when I proceeded to turn), doesn't this mean that they are just going to have a picture of me turning at the intersection and not stopped at the light?

Are you sure it wasn't the weird flashing light on the Walgreen's on the corner of Kings/Arsenal? It flashes about every 10 seconds and looks like a camera flash. It's on the northeast corner of the store. I have no idea what its purpose is.



With respect to the tickets, they are non moving violations and "no points' are assessed. Kind of like parking tickets.

The strobes on Walgreen's are on the bottoms of their security cameras.

Could have been. I am a little bit high-strung and am furious, in advance, with the thought that I may have gotten a ticket following a highly exaggerated "I don't want a ticket" stop. We'll see. While it is true that there are no points associated with the tickets, they are $100 each. I find that to be an economic hardship, especially during the holidays.

It wasn't the Walgreens strobe. I've seen the flash too, it's much brighter and closer to the intersection.

Do they just take a picture of everyone that turns right on red and then review it later?

A flash doesn't mean a violation notice.



The cameras' sensors trigger the flash whenever they "think" a car -- based on speed and direction -- is going to run a light. When people stop, the photo isn't forwarded for police review. The police, not the cameras, make the final determination.



Help?

So, the yellow at Skinker and Delmar is, what, 2 seconds? The light might as well go from green to red, forget the yellow. what a COMPLETE f ing joke that was the other day. I don't go around town running red lights, and I can gauge how long a yellow light is, but this one is at LEAST half as short as the average "yellow" on any signal in the entire city. These lights are a joke! what's next? regulators on the side of the road that control your cars speed? don't be too surprised, I'm sure it's next.

Traffic lights in the City are set and maintained by either MoDOT (at most major intersections) or by the Streets Dept. Yellow (and red and green) lights at intersections don't have standardized times. Rather, they are adjusted based on traffic surveys and accident reports.



If you think a light is mistimed or broken, report it on CIN here http://stlouis.missouri.org/government/csb.html (And if you think you might like to make a career out of this, the City is hiring traffic engineers and techs right now. You can find the job posting here http://stlcin.missouri.org/OnlineJob/jo ... ningID=745 .)

Next will not be regulators at the interchange, It will be sensors IN

your car that will detect your midhap and auto deduct the $100 from your account.. SCARY HUH.

KMOV provides a good run-down of the camera program - looks like violations are way down since the cameras were installed, and the city has pulled in $1.4 million.



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