urbanSTL

$122M road expansion. Spreading out is expansive.

KSDK - MoDOT displays new plan for St. Charles County I-70, I-64 interchange

https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local ... 51eacce647

I'd ask MODOT to first focus on the horrendous trash and overgrown weeds, brush/trees issue on our local roads before they do anything. I can't stand driving down our local highways and looking at the embarrassing mess that our roadways have become. 

The reliance on volunteers to pickup trash on MoDOT's system instead of taxing drivers to pay people to do it grinds my gear, yet another driving subsidy.  Imagine if with each new thing they had to obligate money to pay for properly taking care of and eventually replace it. But taking care of what's already built would take away from building more new stuff.  Now to be fair they did hire an outfit to pick up trash recently. I can't remember how much they're spending.

KMOX - MoDOT hires private company to clean up interstates after KMOX efforts

https://www.audacy.com/kmox/news/local/ ... nterstates

KMOV - MoDOT hires Illinois company to clean litter off MO highways

https://www.kmov.com/2022/05/19/modot-h ... -highways/

It is looking pretty rough out there; there are basically full grown trees at some points on very visible/developed stretches.

Would you guys say that I-64 has the same issues? 

I rarely ever drive that north county, St. Charles County stretch of I-70, as I typically take I-64 when headed westward into the state. 

^  I was actually thinking of 64 with my comment; do not post before coffee.  But both are pretty bad, yes.

The 1-70 - I-64 interchange, ramps and general area is a microcosm of problems that MODOT is having with highway clean-up and tree/brush/weed removal. What a complete embarrassment to the region. I am surprised that cities like Brentwood and Clayton haven't taken this problem into their own hands. There has to be some representative in the region that can demand answers and action. This makes our region look like a dump. Throw in gang tags, old infrastructure and abandoned buildings and you have a perception nobody wants to send to visitors... And residents deserve better!

Freeways are used as trashcans all over the country. You should see I-55 through south city rn. The closed lanes are piling with garbage and car accident debris.

I was in Milwaukee a few months ago, and I was shocked by how much trash they had on their regular city streets. STL looks like Singapore in comparison. 

I understand there is a nationwide shortage of workers in various industries. I have spoken to MODOT customer service. Trash pick-up was handled to some extent by low-level inmates. I was told covid put a hold on that. I do not believe covid should still be an issue. Why not restart this program? There's no shortage of inmates. 

Not to mention, I reported to MODOT years ago, well before covid, about the full-on trees growing out of cracks on the 170/I64 interchange and nothing was done back then. The weeds have always grown out of control on sidewalks on Watson Rd. and also Mackenzie Rd. in south county. I think the issues go deeper than the worker shortage, but who knows. 

^Oh, but this solution will last for twenty five years. At least. So they say. Moar lanes for the lane gods. (Lanes=blood, in this case. By the way.)

More driving subsidies.

Stl Public Radio - Lawmaker wants to use Missouri surplus to widen I-70

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/governm ... widen-i-70

I'm inclined to think this is all another boondoggle. More lanes on 70 is about the last thing we need to be spending money on.

I would be on board if their was money dedicated towards an improving rail transit times between KC/STL and including a CoMo spur.  Have options to take you through Jeff City and CoMo.  But I-70 is a mess of a highway right now with an enormous volume.  

Even if they just added passing lanes without redoing entire interchanges.  

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Dec 06, 2022

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Dec 06, 2022

I'm inclined to think this is all another boondoggle. More lanes on 70 is about the last thing we need to be spending money on.

It's hard to deny there is excessive congestion on I70 between STL and KC.  This is primarily driven by long haul trucking which adds very little to our state in terms of local retail commerce.  There is an opportunity though is to extract revenues from those industries to pay back the investment either through fuel taxes or tolls.  Could easily focus on # wheels or axles to minimize impact to personal vehicles.

The law of induced demand might still play out, but if it did the increase would be revenue generating so not a boondoggle IMO.

Is it the most important thing.  Probably not.  Is it the last.  Definitely not.

One thing i will agree with is there are too many ramps along I70 corridor that encourage poorly though out low-density car centric development over food producing farmland.  I would like to see a significant reduction, but you would be gutting the fast food and gas station owners on those exits which feels unfair even if it would be a better approach to development.

Adding reliability to the River Runner is a worthwhile investment but even if it did reduce personal vehicle travel on 70 (which it won't) it doesn't solve the long haul truck issue on I 70.

If the problem truly is freight traffic, I would be much more supportive of incentives to grow the freight rail connection than the trucking connection. Nothing good comes out of more trucking, even if we can charge the trucks to use the highway, they will still be eating up the local roads when they exit and encouraging more road- and large vehicle-centric development throughout the state to the detriment of everyone else. If we have excess funds we should be incentivizing getting the trucks off the road and get back to shipping things through much less intrusive means like over rail again.

The trouble with adding lanes is it doesn't solve anything. More companies will dispatch their drivers on 70 instead of 40 or 90. More companies will ship via highway. Induced demand makes it nearly impossible to stay ahead of traffic with construction, and it's a bad system to begin with, so we should be inducing the demand in another market.

pappysoulard wrote: ↑

Dec 06, 2022

I would be on board if their was money dedicated towards an improving rail transit times between KC/STL and including a CoMo spur.  Have options to take you through Jeff City and CoMo.  But I-70 is a mess of a highway right now with an enormous volume.  

Even if they just added passing lanes without redoing entire interchanges.  

CoMo Spur from the Missouri River Runner would require either building a new bridge over the Missouri River and using the MKT trail or using the very curvy Katy Train ROW between Sedalia -> Booneville -> McBaine, then using the MKT trail into CoMo. And that would really only benefit CoMO to KC trips.
I'd rather see a new train like this:

STL-COU-Train by A P, on Flickr

But having two parallel Amtrak lines like this would be pretty unprecedented. STL has to become much much more car independent before it becomes a passenger rail hub again. Not needing a car on one side of your train trip greatly increases your chance of taking the train.

Adding just a handful of sidings and replacing some bridges along the River Runner would help immensely. The train sells out all the time. People want to use it.

This always makes me think of how Wisconsin put its big state univ and its state capital in the same city, for the better I think.

3rd lane isn’t necessary along the entire route, there are few hills that could use it just to have space to get around the truckers.

^And they've already added that third lane at least at the Loutre River. There's a couple of other spots that could use it. Maybe Auxvasse Creek. Maybe the Lamine River. But generally, it's not remotely as bad as people sometimes make it out to be, and there really are better solutions than just dumping more money into the asphalt incinerator. I know that's not a popular truth around here right now, but adding lanes is just dumping good money after bad. We'll end up with more trucks contributing an ever smaller share of our revenue and contributing ever less to the local economy as they zip through the state faster, stopping even less. Better by far to spend the same money on port infrastructure and rail improvements. It will bring more and better paying jobs. It will decrease congestion. They're talking about six billion dollars for two extra lanes across the state. That would more than pay for double tracking the UP from Jefferson City to Kansas City. It'd go a long way towards electrifying the whole thing, and and upgrading it to 220mph service a la California HSR. They're spending about six billion on doing more or less just that to the 120 mile segment from Merced to Bakersfield. And the entire five hundred mile project, with quite a lot of brand new construction at California land acquisition prices inside SF and LA is presently projected to cost a bit north of $30B altogether. So maybe $15B would be a good ballpark for a line half the length here. Say it with me: we can do better. Missouri was not built by highways. We've gone nowhere but down since the inception of the interstate highway system. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past.