Proposals for northeast corner of Grand and Lindell

mill204 · PostMar 24, 2008#1262008-03-24T05:57+00:00

Is that permanent 45-degree angle parking I see there? On Lindell?!

Keep the buildings. Plop another building on on at least 2/3 of the plaza: the plaza doesn't need to be that big.

Edit: Just noticed. What is represented by the white splotch just across Olive? Are they going to replace the parking lot with a parking garage? The rendering, oddly, shows a building in the background in "nothing to see here" gray.

wabash · PostMar 24, 2008#1272008-03-24T14:18+00:00

I think the plaza mirrors the park at Grand and Washington nicely. Not that it could possibly be as nice as that park, but at that scale, with 60,000 sqf. of retail, perhaps a Bread Co. pouring onto the sidewalk?, it could be quite active.

Building something substantial on the south east corner of Grand and Lindell would really help give the plaza a sense of space/purpose.

rbb · PostMar 24, 2008#1282008-03-24T16:12+00:00

Mill204 wrote:Edit: Just noticed. What is represented by the white splotch just across Olive? Are they going to replace the parking lot with a parking garage? The rendering, oddly, shows a building in the background in "nothing to see here" gray.

I was wondering the same thing. This is what's here now:

http://maps.live.com/#JnE9eXAuc3QlNDAyK ... M2NzE4NzU=

And per ChesterfieldKid03, this is what's proposed:

Honestly, I'm fine with the proposal. Would I like to see the fascia extend all the way along Grand? Sure. Would I like the building to butt up to the sidewalk on Lindell? Of course. But the placement of the building is fine as-is; to completely fill the block, you sacrafice building height.

As for the design of the building itself - it's too early to tell for sure. These are pretty crude renderings. It does appear to pay homage to the Council Tower and the Grandview Apartments, but the key is in the details and materials used. If it's a near copy, then I'll be a bit disappointed. If, however, it's a 21st-century interperetation of mid-century modern, then I'll be pleased.

It *is* better than the grass field that's there now <ducks>. IMO it represents real progress from SLU (we need more green space!) , and despite the plaza taking up 1/3 of the block, it should greaty improve the Grand streetscape. I'll have to wait until a more detailed rendering emerges before making a final judgement on the design, however.

-RBB

ecoabsence · PostMar 24, 2008#1292008-03-24T16:16+00:00

Why leave the prominent corner wide open as a plaza? Maybe the architect has a penchant for large areas splattered with pigeon sh^t.

jakektu · PostMar 24, 2008#1302008-03-24T18:04+00:00

The rendering looks like they paved over Vito's!

gone corporate · PostMar 24, 2008#1312008-03-24T18:11+00:00

This is tall, modern, and retail friendly. It is exactly what is needed.

The south plaza seems ideal for the openness that a University-oriented facility would want for student-related gatherings. It looks great for attracting outdoor dining (the Bread Company idea; think of all the people that eat out at Vito’s when the weather is nice) and providing a setting ideal for increased student foot traffic, and maybe less of a student emphasis on driving. It is a welcoming entrance to Grand Center.

The angled parking on Lindell looks great for St. Francis Xavier parishioners to grab a quick parking job for heading in or making a quick visit to the area, say for lunch.

The height of the two buildings will do great to build the atmosphere and attention of all of Midtown, including the University, Grand Center, and Automotive Row. This can add a strong modern, contemporary element to the Midtown skyline while respecting the architecture of the Continental Building.

I also think they’ve been designed to compliment the Council Tower and Grandview Apartments buildings; after all, anything too different could make them a compounded eyesore. Copying their basic design also could do much to enhance the perception of the University’s square footage, since SLU has really nothing to do with either the Council Tower or Grandview Apartments other than being neighbors.

As well, the larger building’s windowless south wall provides a minimalist compliment to the corner, enhancing the importance of St. Francis Xavier’s steeple. Maybe they also want to compliment the Contemporary Art Museum and the Pulitzer.

Q: Noting the space above the elevated low-rise sections of the buildings: are these rooftop greenways? If so, would it be fair to assume these buildings are going to be built for LEED qualification?

magnatron · PostMar 24, 2008#1322008-03-24T19:04+00:00

As well, the larger building’s windowless south wall provides a minimalist compliment to the corner, enhancing the importance of St. Francis Xavier’s steeple. Maybe they also want to compliment the Contemporary Art Museum and the Pulitzer.

Agreed.... and nicely put.

ecoabsence · PostMar 24, 2008#1332008-03-24T20:20+00:00

Gone Corporate wrote:The south plaza seems ideal for the openness that a University-oriented facility would want for student-related gatherings.

Isn't that the line SLU has used for all of its other plazas (including the large one across the street)?

gone corporate · PostMar 24, 2008#1342008-03-24T20:29+00:00

ecoabsence wrote:
Gone Corporate wrote:The south plaza seems ideal for the openness that a University-oriented facility would want for student-related gatherings.

Isn't that the line SLU has used for all of its other plazas (including the large one across the street)?

No idea. I would think that they'd want to promote a modern urban University that differentiates itself atmospherically from DePaul.

midcoaststl · PostMar 24, 2008#1352008-03-24T20:35+00:00

I will wait to make total judgement on a more detailed rendering, but I love it! Those 2 towers will really change that area. Now if we can dream maybe we will one day have towers dotting lindel connecting to Wachovia and then downtown!

wabash · PostMar 24, 2008#1362008-03-24T21:07+00:00

When considering the cost/quality of this project: For comparison the Park East cost $50 million, and this has a price tag of $100 million. Not that it says much considering we don't know how many stories, units, or total sqft. this will be.

u3ventures: This is the lesser known of the three partners on the project. Most of their activity/experience seems to come from development surrounding U Penn in Philly.

jlblues · PostMar 24, 2008#1372008-03-24T21:31+00:00

From the renderings, it appears to be two buildings of approximately 33 and 22 stories, on a 5 story podium with rooftop green space, garage, office, retail space, and performance space?, surrounded by a large paved plaza. No way could you build all of that for $100 million, so either there are multiple phases to this project, someone is living in fantasyland, or they plan to use imported, non-union labor.

gone corporate · PostMar 24, 2008#1382008-03-24T21:48+00:00

jlblues wrote:From the renderings, it appears to be two buildings of approximately 35 and 22 stories, on a 5 story podium with rooftop green space, garage, office, and retail space, surrounded by a large paved plaza. No way could you build all of that for $100 million, so either there are multiple phases to this project, someone is living in fantasyland, or they plan to use imported, non-union labor.

Eh, it works for Pudong.

wabash · PostMar 24, 2008#1392008-03-24T23:37+00:00

The text that accompanies the rendering reads, "The project will consist of 60,000 square feet of retail space and will include residential and hospitality." No mention of either garage, office, or performance space being included in the $100 million. Hopefully more detailed information will be released soon.

jlblues · PostMar 25, 2008#1402008-03-25T00:14+00:00

^I was going off of the rendering, flyer, and the project details in the Business Journal article from last June, which were summarized nicely by DeBaliviere. The numbers match those given on the Pace flyer, assuming the theatre takes up about 2/3 of the retail space. The buildings on the rendering look like more than 400,000 sf though, as well, so it would make sense that the building on the right is a future Phase II:

DeBaliviere wrote:Update in the Business Journal today:

- SLU is partnering with McCormack Baron on a $100 million development on the site

- 400,000 sf total

- 100 condos, 155,000 sf of retail space, 100,000 sf of office space

- McCormack Baron will be moving its hq to occupy about half of the office space in 2009

- Part of the retail component includes a mult-screen movie theater

- Not sure whether SLU will own the project or if the state office building will be demolished or incorporated (I hope it's demolished)

- Condos qualify for SLU's forgiveable loan program which gives down payment assistance to SLU employees

BTW, the building along Grand looks like a giant L. And if they added another tower to the building on the right, that building would look like a giant U. So, the question is, where are they going to build the giant S?

Somebody with PhotoShop and a lot of time on their hands...get to work!

jcity · PostMar 25, 2008#1412008-03-25T02:45+00:00

they plan to use imported, non-union labor

[-o<

framer · PostMar 25, 2008#1422008-03-25T04:35+00:00

The more I study the renderings, the more I like it. This is just the kind of transformative project that Midtown needs to truly turn the corner and become the thriving area it should be.

jmedwick · PostMar 25, 2008#1432008-03-25T13:31+00:00

The devil is in the details and none of those renderings show enough to for me to form an opinion as to whether this will help or hurt the all-important midtown-SLU connection. Depending on how the plaza is fronted and what the street level design looks like, the project could be great or horrible. We just don't know.

debaliviere · PostMar 25, 2008#1442008-03-25T13:36+00:00

My initial impression is that I'm not crazy about this, but I'll wait on more detailed plans.

I'm not sure I get the point of the plaza. There's already a plaza with a fountain directly across the street from it (on which I'd rather see a signature building for the university).

southslider · PostMar 25, 2008#1452008-03-25T15:35+00:00

I was back in town over Easter and saw SLU's changes among others while driving around. I thought the new research tower was kinda cool, the new arena rather ordinary, but the new parking signs on Olive closest to this site were just plain hideous. Given SLU's record, I'd be praying a lot.

newstl2020 · PostMar 26, 2008#1462008-03-26T19:51+00:00

Good god what do we have to do in this city to get a building that works in its space in a shape other than a square or a rectangle? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against this proposal in general, but WHY would they not consider a building which spanned the entire plaza area integrating both Grand and Olive into the same building? This would be a MUCH more successful and better planned design IMO.

drdrew · PostMar 26, 2008#1472008-03-26T19:57+00:00

So, when will we actually see something happening here? Is the government building that will need to be torn down still being used for anything? What happens to Vito's in this plan? It looks like a street will eliminate their building, maybe they'll move to a site in the new development?

kustramo · PostMar 26, 2008#1482008-03-26T21:42+00:00

Well I know the majority on here has to complain just because... ( I think that is in the rules, although I've never read them

) but I think this proposal is as good as any I have seen in this city for a long time. I don't see anything wrong with a plaza there next to two 20+ story high rises. It would be a great place for GC events, outdoor musicians, news stands, etc., and the view of this project coming up Grand from the south would be amazing and really add to the area. I'm thrilled that something this large scale might actually get built in Midtown

arch city · PostMar 27, 2008#1492008-03-27T01:21+00:00

Is this just another rough design? Like the height. Hate the design. Don't need another plaza in Midtown. Don't need another Council Plaza in St. Louis.

captainjackass · PostMar 27, 2008#1502008-03-27T15:27+00:00

What's so bad about the design? Is it that you consider it bland or uninspired?

Proposals for northeast corner of Grand and Lindell

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