I'm not sure the crowds at Chicago Fire games are that much different looking than the ones at Sox or Bears games...There are plenty of native born white, black and brown kids and their parents who would support MLS IMO...
Exactly what I believe. It takes a driving personality to bring a pro team into reality and nourish it into profitability. Ripe markets don't produce products; owner's do.Alex Ihnen wrote:I think this is an ownership issue. If someone with the $ stepped up, St. Louis would be the next team.
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Right. Sure, soccer may, in general, be more popular in Hispanic nations and among Hispanic immigrants (and other groups as well), but go to a youth soccer camp in St. Louis and it's mostly white and suburban - and there are so many more that fit that demographic than the (assumed) soccer-crazed immigrant, that their interest in attending MLS games is most important.RobbyD wrote:I'm not sure the crowds at Chicago Fire games are that much different looking than the ones at Sox or Bears games...There are plenty of native born white, black and brown kids and their parents who would support MLS IMO...
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That doesn't at all acknowledge the smaller non-native born population that St. Louis possesses. Whether it's true or not, the image is there. Can't say that it does, or doesn't, influence how the MLS would determine a successful franchise.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Can someone show that the demographics in St. Louis are less soccer friendly than the cities mentioned above? No. San Diego, Arizona, Las Vegas, Detroit, San Antonio, South Florida and Atlanta... Some are larger, a couple economically healthier, but others are not. St. Louis is a great market for MLS. There's an incredibly vibrant youth soccer scene here and at 2.8M, it's not a small metro. I think this is an ownership issue. If someone with the $ stepped up, St. Louis would be the next team.
My guess is that many of these are under-saturated markets, especially considering recent expansion cities (Seattle, Portland, Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Salt Lake) where MLS feels it can grab fans & money before a different league comes to town.
I don't think that's a very accurate assessment of a soccer fan. It might have more to do with kids who come from families with the means to send their kids to soccer camp go to soccer camp. You can go to a baseball camp and see virtually no fat, drunk folks there; go to a Cardinals game and you'll see a whole lot of them, probably more than you'd wish to see. Not really apples to apples.Alex Ihnen wrote: but go to a youth soccer camp in St. Louis and it's mostly white and suburban - and there are so many more that fit that demographic than the (assumed) soccer-crazed immigrant, that their interest in attending MLS games is most important.
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^ The kids at baseball camps are the fat drunk Cardinals fans + 40yrs.
Perhaps Stan will just move Arsenal to St. Louis. Appropriate name, no? But seriously, you have to think there's some interest on his part in having an MLS team in St. Louis, assuming he likes watching soccer.
Rams Owner Takes Over Arsenal Soccer Team Ownership: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/04/11/ ... ownership/
Rams Owner Takes Over Arsenal Soccer Team Ownership: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/04/11/ ... ownership/
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I think he already owns the Colorado MLS team. I assume you can't own two franchises (but maybe his son could manage one?).Alex Ihnen wrote:Perhaps Stan will just move Arsenal to St. Louis. Appropriate name, no? But seriously, you have to think there's some interest on his part in having an MLS team in St. Louis, assuming he likes watching soccer.
Rams Owner Takes Over Arsenal Soccer Team Ownership: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2011/04/11/ ... ownership/
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I don't know if there's an MLS rule, but the league would likely welcome more $ just about any way it can.
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south compton wrote:I think he already owns the Colorado MLS team. I assume you can't own two franchises (but maybe his son could manage one?).
Actually, not only is there no rule against it, but MLS wouldn't have survived without multiple-team owners in the past.Alex Ihnen wrote:I don't know if there's an MLS rule, but the league would likely welcome more $ just about any way it can.
The league is moving away from that, but even today, the (Lamar) Hunt family owns both the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas, and Anschutz Entertainment Group owns the Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, and LA Galaxy.
Like I said, MLS is moving away from that but if anybody would qualify for an exemption, it's Kroenke.
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Good to know. I'm curious why he hasn't pursued a St. Louis team in the past. Surely we would have been awarded an expansion franchise during one of the last two expansion periods if Stan was involved.southsidered wrote:south compton wrote:I think he already owns the Colorado MLS team. I assume you can't own two franchises (but maybe his son could manage one?).Actually, not only is there no rule against it, but MLS wouldn't have survived without multiple-team owners in the past.Alex Ihnen wrote:I don't know if there's an MLS rule, but the league would likely welcome more $ just about any way it can.
The league is moving away from that, but even today, the (Lamar) Hunt family owns both the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas, and Anschutz Entertainment Group owns the Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, and LA Galaxy.
Like I said, MLS is moving away from that but if anybody would qualify for an exemption, it's Kroenke.
Probably becuase he doesn't have any money left, even for a billionair, after his NFL move and now his Manchester move, for which the team is valued at an easy plus Billion. On more serious note, not sure if it is the same articule, but Wall Street Journal had a good story about Stan K (even a good picture) in yesterdays print edition. It can be found online atsouth compton wrote:Good to know. I'm curious why he hasn't pursued a St. Louis team in the past. Surely we would have been awarded an expansion franchise during one of the last two expansion periods if Stan was involved.southsidered wrote:south compton wrote:I think he already owns the Colorado MLS team. I assume you can't own two franchises (but maybe his son could manage one?).Actually, not only is there no rule against it, but MLS wouldn't have survived without multiple-team owners in the past.Alex Ihnen wrote:I don't know if there's an MLS rule, but the league would likely welcome more $ just about any way it can.
The league is moving away from that, but even today, the (Lamar) Hunt family owns both the Columbus Crew and FC Dallas, and Anschutz Entertainment Group owns the Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, and LA Galaxy.
Like I said, MLS is moving away from that but if anybody would qualify for an exemption, it's Kroenke.
A Sports Magnate's New Toy
In Stan Kroenke, English Soccer Gets Another Foreign Owner at a Time When Big Spending Is Key.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 50380.html
On a seperate note, wonder if Stan K ever thought or even thinks of his MSL team as a feeder or essentially a minor league team for the more established soccer cups. It might be a way to support the economics of any MSL team even a new team in St. Louis.
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No. Arsenal (and all the big clubs) have their own feeder systems, stocked with players generally better than those in MLS.dredger wrote:On a seperate note, wonder if Stan K ever thought or even thinks of his MSL team as a feeder or essentially a minor league team for the more established soccer cups. It might be a way to support the economics of any MSL team even a new team in St. Louis.
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^ OK, so how about a put-out-to-pasture team? The washed-up players could live high on the hog in STL for a year or two! Boom.
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I wonder if Stan will put a statue of Barry Manilow outside the stadium.
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Kroenke's MLS team, the Colorado Rapids, is indeed one of only three official Arsenal "partner clubs" around the world: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... -mls-startthe central scrutinizer wrote:No. Arsenal (and all the big clubs) have their own feeder systems, stocked with players generally better than those in MLS.dredger wrote:On a seperate note, wonder if Stan K ever thought or even thinks of his MSL team as a feeder or essentially a minor league team for the more established soccer cups. It might be a way to support the economics of any MSL team even a new team in St. Louis.
Premiership clubs do not have "feeder" systems a la Minor League Baseball. They have reserve and youth teams but they're all under the Arsenal banner. And the top players in their system who don't make the big club's roster are usually loaned out to other clubs so they can get competitive playing time.
Finally, it's not at all uncommon for MLS players to move to the Premiership, or the other way around. Most knowledgeable observers rank MLS as roughly equivalent to the English 2nd division (The Championship) - where, as it happens, many of Arsenal's current loaned-out players are playing.
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Does Football's cross ownership rule only apply to MLB, NHL, and NBA?
If not doesn't this eliminate Kroenke from the conversation anyway?
I think we would have better luck trying to get Cheketts (sp?) on board after he divests his stake in the Blues.
If not doesn't this eliminate Kroenke from the conversation anyway?
I think we would have better luck trying to get Cheketts (sp?) on board after he divests his stake in the Blues.
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^^ Nice southsidered - some actual knowledge.
^ newstl2020 - this was covered recently - there are owners that own multiple MLS teams and the NFL rule is that you can't own a pro franchise in another city. Stan's son now owns the teams in Colorado, Stan owns the Rams, so no problem there (yes, it's a slight of hand).
^ newstl2020 - this was covered recently - there are owners that own multiple MLS teams and the NFL rule is that you can't own a pro franchise in another city. Stan's son now owns the teams in Colorado, Stan owns the Rams, so no problem there (yes, it's a slight of hand).
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^Thank you for the refresher, Alex.
Well let's hope this bodes well for MLS soccer in StL. I wonder how receptive the MLS would be to having him move the Rapids here. I am sure they value the Denver market, and Stan likely does as well, but it may be easier than getting a new team at this point. I can't imagine them putting up that hard of a fight against one of their wealthiest (I am assuming) owners.
^Not much of a chance of happening now that I look. It appears that they got their own stadium sponsored by Home Depot in 2007. They also just won last year. I would be willing to bet they are signed to the new stadium for a while.
Well let's hope this bodes well for MLS soccer in StL. I wonder how receptive the MLS would be to having him move the Rapids here. I am sure they value the Denver market, and Stan likely does as well, but it may be easier than getting a new team at this point. I can't imagine them putting up that hard of a fight against one of their wealthiest (I am assuming) owners.
^Not much of a chance of happening now that I look. It appears that they got their own stadium sponsored by Home Depot in 2007. They also just won last year. I would be willing to bet they are signed to the new stadium for a while.
I think Denver was a stepping stone for Stan K to the NFL and think his money and efforts is going to geared towards what is or not going to happen come 2014 with Edwards Dome lease. Of course, wishful thinking is that Stan K will builds a open air stadium and putting a MSL team might fill some seats now and then.newstl2020 wrote:^Thank you for the refresher, Alex.
Well let's hope this bodes well for MLS soccer in StL. I wonder how receptive the MLS would be to having him move the Rapids here. I am sure they value the Denver market, and Stan likely does as well, but it may be easier than getting a new team at this point. I can't imagine them putting up that hard of a fight against one of their wealthiest (I am assuming) owners.
^Not much of a chance of happening now that I look. It appears that they got their own stadium sponsored by Home Depot in 2007. They also just won last year. I would be willing to bet they are signed to the new stadium for a while.
But I still believe that any involvement on his part would bring and is the by far the best chance for St. Louis to gain a MSL team.
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Correct. The reserves and juniors are effectively the feeders.southsidered wrote:Kroenke's MLS team, the Colorado Rapids, is indeed one of only three official Arsenal "partner clubs" around the world: http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... -mls-startthe central scrutinizer wrote:No. Arsenal (and all the big clubs) have their own feeder systems, stocked with players generally better than those in MLS.dredger wrote:On a seperate note, wonder if Stan K ever thought or even thinks of his MSL team as a feeder or essentially a minor league team for the more established soccer cups. It might be a way to support the economics of any MSL team even a new team in St. Louis.
Premiership clubs do not have "feeder" systems a la Minor League Baseball. They have reserve and youth teams but they're all under the Arsenal banner. And the top players in their system who don't make the big club's roster are usually loaned out to other clubs so they can get competitive playing time.
Finally, it's not at all uncommon for MLS players to move to the Premiership, or the other way around. Most knowledgeable observers rank MLS as roughly equivalent to the English 2nd division (The Championship) - where, as it happens, many of Arsenal's current loaned-out players are playing.
I didn't know the MLS Colorado side was considered a "feeder" to Arsenal, but since he owns both, there's no reason not to. I doubt there are any others. I know in the last round of expansion, one of the investors in the Miami (IIRC) entry was Barcelona (again, IIRC), or one of the other big European sides. Not as a feeder, but more to expand their brand over here.
The comparison of the MLS to Championship is probably about right.
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I was at PGE Park for some ball games and also the 2003 Women's WC Semis (or quarters, I can't remember which). It set up nicely for soccer, and they had temp stands where the new East stand is.moorlander wrote:This should be us. AWESOME. RIP AC StL,
I had a friend sitting with the Army last night. So now I'm planning a trip in July.
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Well that made my Monday more depressing than it already is...moorlander wrote:This should be us. AWESOME. RIP AC StL,
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St. Louis not on MLS radar....
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/soccer/a ... 1519b.html
I hope that a group can step up at some point, bring a team here and build a venue as great as the one KC. They built it right the first time. In turn, they have secured the team will stay there and also almost guarantee regular stops by the US MNT, traveling international pro clubs etc...... I give them credit for doing it right.
It is nice that they support STL getting a team. We'd be a natural rival for them.
I have to say, I'm jealous. I'd love to see a venue like this on the riverfront, midtown or Richmond Heights. Maybe someday......
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/soccer/a ... 1519b.html
I hope that a group can step up at some point, bring a team here and build a venue as great as the one KC. They built it right the first time. In turn, they have secured the team will stay there and also almost guarantee regular stops by the US MNT, traveling international pro clubs etc...... I give them credit for doing it right.
It is nice that they support STL getting a team. We'd be a natural rival for them.
I have to say, I'm jealous. I'd love to see a venue like this on the riverfront, midtown or Richmond Heights. Maybe someday......