Are we even sure we are geting an MLS team?
- 6,775
St. Louis Texan wrote:Are we even sure we are geting an MLS team?
No.
I wonder if there would be enough space to build an MLS stadium, and include parking, where two dead/dying malls are currently located:
Deer Creek Center, which is between Hanley/Laclede Station Road and Big Bend Boulevard.
Saint Louis Marketplace, off of Manchester between McCausland and Hampton.
Side note: Deer Creek could certainly use some redevelopment, if not a stadium, since the Maplewood Commons retail development north of it on Hanley has sapped any of its retail draw. Perhaps, given Maplewood's popularity, it could be redeveloped along a New Urbanist vein?
Deer Creek Center, which is between Hanley/Laclede Station Road and Big Bend Boulevard.
Saint Louis Marketplace, off of Manchester between McCausland and Hampton.
Side note: Deer Creek could certainly use some redevelopment, if not a stadium, since the Maplewood Commons retail development north of it on Hanley has sapped any of its retail draw. Perhaps, given Maplewood's popularity, it could be redeveloped along a New Urbanist vein?
- 366
Shouldnt we focus on getting a team before planning a new stadium?
- 6,775
St. Louis Texan wrote:Shouldnt we focus on getting a team before planning a new stadium?
That would be the prudent move.
I don't think so. Shouldn't you have a clear cut plan of action before you get a team? The city started building the Dome to lure an NFL team, it had a plan of action, and that plan worked. Eventually, the goal of St. Louis should be to have an MLS team...and that MLS team needs a place to play. So then you have to figure out where to put the stadium. Why not get that sort of stuff out of the way now?
All this World Cup watching has got me hungry for some first class footy (well MLS class anyway)
Rumor now is expect an anouncement at the MLS all star game, early August, we are up against Cleveland.
Rumor now is expect an anouncement at the MLS all star game, early August, we are up against Cleveland.
- 179
trent wrote:I don't think so. Shouldn't you have a clear cut plan of action before you get a team? The city started building the Dome to lure an NFL team, it had a plan of action, and that plan worked. Eventually, the goal of St. Louis should be to have an MLS team...and that MLS team needs a place to play. So then you have to figure out where to put the stadium. Why not get that sort of stuff out of the way now?
Well-said, Trent.
Also, I'm sure some leaders may read this forum in addition to other people in power. I have a feeling that some of us, on this forum, can be those leaders too. I have, unsuccessfully though, looked up the developers at the coke site to give them my two cents.
I am of the thought that you can really affect someone's thinking with a positive mind. I am in NO way a professional at this but I will try. The problem with some of the st.louis urban blogs (esp. scooter guy) out there is that they are so very simple minded, bitter, and angry. They have some really GREAT ideas but always ruffle the feathers, start sh*t, instead of having friendly dialogue with those in charge. Sometimes those same bloggers who preach openness are in fact just like those to whom they preach.
There is a saying that you can catch more bees with honey...well, I think if we collectively begin mini campaigns, individually or under one banner, we can change this city one project at a time. But we have to keep an open mind to some of the ideas out there. And stop preaching to the choir (forums/blogs) and start contacting those in charge!
I got off on a tangent. #-o
I think it is VERY important to be "in" on the new developments even if they are years out. (chouteau lake, chouteau landing, coke development, mls location, etc. Bottle district and ballpark village are two giants and I think we missed the boat on them.) If we can influence those people, in charge, we can definitely make a difference.
Now, if anyone has the contact info to the stl mls developer and coke developer, I have some writing to do.
St. Louis----King of France----Royalty?
Thus, my team name-
Real St. Louis
named after Real Madrid. (ree-al - translates to Royal)
Great soccer clubs don't have cheezy mascots.
Thus, my team name-
Real St. Louis
named after Real Madrid. (ree-al - translates to Royal)
Great soccer clubs don't have cheezy mascots.
rustedhinge wrote:St. Louis----King of France----Royalty?
Thus, my team name-
Real St. Louis
named after Real Madrid. (ree-al - translates to Royal)
Great soccer clubs don't have cheezy mascots.
I think that's great! Colors could be white, blue and yellow, and the mascot being Louis IX riding -- as the statue in front of the Art Museum. It's a great piece of Saint Louis history, and a part of our cultural legacy that we should encourage people to remember. BUT -- the question is, would the crusader king be offensive as a mascot? I don't think he would be here, but would it be a problem in competing teams' cities, or for the MLS?
I prefer Manchester United Football Club to Real Madrid.
As I said before:
St. Louis Cardinals Football Club. Makes the marketing and mascot choice easy.....
Plus since when is any soccer team in America considered "great"??
As I said before:
St. Louis Cardinals Football Club. Makes the marketing and mascot choice easy.....
Plus since when is any soccer team in America considered "great"??
- 179
Tysalpha wrote:rustedhinge wrote:St. Louis----King of France----Royalty?
Thus, my team name-
Real St. Louis
named after Real Madrid. (ree-al - translates to Royal)
Great soccer clubs don't have cheezy mascots.
I think that's great! Colors could be white, blue and yellow, and the mascot being Louis IX riding -- as the statue in front of the Art Museum. It's a great piece of Saint Louis history, and a part of our cultural legacy that we should encourage people to remember. BUT -- the question is, would the crusader king be offensive as a mascot? I don't think he would be here, but would it be a problem in competing teams' cities, or for the MLS?
I think having King Louis IX would work within the logo.
DC United in Washington DC has a nice name. In fact the MLS wants to change the names of some of the team names as they don't sound "elite" like those in the European leagues. Kansas City Wizards, Chicago Fire to name a few.
I don't want a "mascot". The "logo" is all we need, here are some examples:
http://real-madrid-news.newslib.com/
http://www.chelseafc.com/article.asp?ar ... v=&sublid=
http://www.fcbarcelona.com/
RSL done in Utah?
The team may find warmer welcome elsewhere
By Derek P. Jensen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Heads hung. A smattering of scarlet scarves lay limp, and an awkward silence choked the chamber.
For Real Salt Lake fans, this defeat really stung. Not only did they just lose a nail-biter vote for a Sandy stadium, they also fear they might lose something far more dear: their team.
Indeed, RSL owner Dave Checketts warned that Tuesday's 5-4 County Council decision - which sent the team's suburban stadium dreams into oblivion - ''puts the future of the club in Utah in serious jeopardy.''
Media reports in St. Louis (where Checketts owns the National Hockey League's Blues) say RSL already is looking at moving the team there. Portland, Phoenix and Rochester, N.Y., are also considered in the running, along with a rejuvenated Salt Lake City offer.
But Sandy?
"As far as I'm concerned, the [stadium] project is dead," said Mayor Tom Dolan, who in part blamed the news media. "It's totally anti-Sandy. It's always been about Salt Lake City."
MLS Commissioner Don Garber, who was eating lunch with Checketts when the pair received word of the council rejection, offered a grim analysis hours after digesting the news.
"We can't allow that team to stay in that market unless we have some vision for a soccer-specific stadium," he said.
Despite the bewilderment from soccer brass, county politicians may have revived proposals intent on erecting a 20,000-seat stadium in or near downtown Salt Lake City.
Before jaws could be collected - Councilman David Wilde shocked fellow Republicans including Dolan with the decisive "no" vote - Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson was touting the merits of taking the team to the Utah State Fairpark. Unlike the $35 million in tourist tax RSL wanted from the county, the fairpark plan would cost half that amount.
If no such bond can be brokered, Anderson worries the team could bolt - perhaps for western New York. Tuesday evening, he said Rochester investors are willing to offer Checketts "three times" what he paid for the franchise.
At the same time, Salt Lake City Councilman Eric Jergensen is pushing downtown. He said there are a "number" of locations. Past possibilities include property west of The Gateway, land owned by Gastronomy north of Gateway, and an Earl Holding block on Main Street at 600 South.
"There is a possible proposal in downtown Salt Lake," he revealed. "The issue is, where does Real want to go? What works for Real, as well as what makes sense for the city and the county from a financial standpoint?"
Sandy's proposal - it called for $35 million in hotel taxes for a city-issued bond, with the remaining $60 million available for other county projects - did not pass muster with county accountants.
Council attorney Karl Hendrickson warned the finance scheme put the county at risk and could jeopardize its ability to fund other projects.
County Mayor Peter Corroon agreed - "the project still does not work," he said - and later said he would have vetoed the request.
After the dire pronouncements, Councilman Joe Hatch tried to resuscitate the stadium with a revamped proposal that he argued shifted the risk to Sandy. The plan took the collateral element off the hotel tax and called for giving the suburb just $30 million, while steering $45 million toward a downtown arts district and $15 million for west-side parks and baseball.
But when Hatch refused to lower the capital's take to $41 million, Wilde ended his endorsement.
"It's got to be $45 [million] and screw you if it's anything else," he said incredulously about Hatch. "My constituents want fairness for the rest of the county."
The major concern now, Wilde said, "is how this is going to play with the Legislature. I'm not trying to poke them in the eye, but I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over doing what I think is right."
After the vote, Hatch alleged Wilde "has made a career of making Salt Lake City a bogeyman. This is a continuation of that career."
But Councilman Mark Crockett called Wilde a "hero" and the vote "a triumph for democracy."
"Today, more so than anything else, says when people voice their opinion, it does change the outcome," he said.
But the decision left RSL fans at a loss.
"I'm really disappointed," said Steve McAfee, a West Jordan season-ticket holder. ''It seems like there are a few people who say, 'I love soccer, I love soccer.' Obviously, they don't.''
Even so, Midvale's Scott Stucki argues too many powerful people still are pulling for soccer in Utah. "It will happen somewhere," he said.
Corroon says despite being dubbed a contrarian, his door is open.
''Everybody seems to think it's: 'no, no, no, heck no,' '' he said. ''It's: 'Bring us something that makes sense and we'll consider it.' ''
While Checketts allows the setback is not the "end of the road," he took a swipe at Corroon and the council for their "lack of support."
"They believe, mistakenly, that they have protected the Utah taxpayer. In fact, they have only stood in the way of what would be one of the largest private capital investments ever made in state history."
Although Dolan said he is through courting public money for the stadium, he plans to go to the Legislature to help with a $650 million mega-development - blending shops, restaurants, condos and offices - near 9400 S. State St.
At one point during Tuesday's debate, perhaps in an omen of the vote to come, Dolan's cell phone went off. The ring tone: the Rolling Stones' ''I Can't Get No Satisfaction.''
---
Tribune reporters Heather May, Michael C. Lewis and Jacob Santini contributed to this report.
The team may find warmer welcome elsewhere
By Derek P. Jensen
The Salt Lake Tribune
Heads hung. A smattering of scarlet scarves lay limp, and an awkward silence choked the chamber.
For Real Salt Lake fans, this defeat really stung. Not only did they just lose a nail-biter vote for a Sandy stadium, they also fear they might lose something far more dear: their team.
Indeed, RSL owner Dave Checketts warned that Tuesday's 5-4 County Council decision - which sent the team's suburban stadium dreams into oblivion - ''puts the future of the club in Utah in serious jeopardy.''
Media reports in St. Louis (where Checketts owns the National Hockey League's Blues) say RSL already is looking at moving the team there. Portland, Phoenix and Rochester, N.Y., are also considered in the running, along with a rejuvenated Salt Lake City offer.
But Sandy?
"As far as I'm concerned, the [stadium] project is dead," said Mayor Tom Dolan, who in part blamed the news media. "It's totally anti-Sandy. It's always been about Salt Lake City."
MLS Commissioner Don Garber, who was eating lunch with Checketts when the pair received word of the council rejection, offered a grim analysis hours after digesting the news.
"We can't allow that team to stay in that market unless we have some vision for a soccer-specific stadium," he said.
Despite the bewilderment from soccer brass, county politicians may have revived proposals intent on erecting a 20,000-seat stadium in or near downtown Salt Lake City.
Before jaws could be collected - Councilman David Wilde shocked fellow Republicans including Dolan with the decisive "no" vote - Salt Lake City Mayor Rocky Anderson was touting the merits of taking the team to the Utah State Fairpark. Unlike the $35 million in tourist tax RSL wanted from the county, the fairpark plan would cost half that amount.
If no such bond can be brokered, Anderson worries the team could bolt - perhaps for western New York. Tuesday evening, he said Rochester investors are willing to offer Checketts "three times" what he paid for the franchise.
At the same time, Salt Lake City Councilman Eric Jergensen is pushing downtown. He said there are a "number" of locations. Past possibilities include property west of The Gateway, land owned by Gastronomy north of Gateway, and an Earl Holding block on Main Street at 600 South.
"There is a possible proposal in downtown Salt Lake," he revealed. "The issue is, where does Real want to go? What works for Real, as well as what makes sense for the city and the county from a financial standpoint?"
Sandy's proposal - it called for $35 million in hotel taxes for a city-issued bond, with the remaining $60 million available for other county projects - did not pass muster with county accountants.
Council attorney Karl Hendrickson warned the finance scheme put the county at risk and could jeopardize its ability to fund other projects.
County Mayor Peter Corroon agreed - "the project still does not work," he said - and later said he would have vetoed the request.
After the dire pronouncements, Councilman Joe Hatch tried to resuscitate the stadium with a revamped proposal that he argued shifted the risk to Sandy. The plan took the collateral element off the hotel tax and called for giving the suburb just $30 million, while steering $45 million toward a downtown arts district and $15 million for west-side parks and baseball.
But when Hatch refused to lower the capital's take to $41 million, Wilde ended his endorsement.
"It's got to be $45 [million] and screw you if it's anything else," he said incredulously about Hatch. "My constituents want fairness for the rest of the county."
The major concern now, Wilde said, "is how this is going to play with the Legislature. I'm not trying to poke them in the eye, but I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over doing what I think is right."
After the vote, Hatch alleged Wilde "has made a career of making Salt Lake City a bogeyman. This is a continuation of that career."
But Councilman Mark Crockett called Wilde a "hero" and the vote "a triumph for democracy."
"Today, more so than anything else, says when people voice their opinion, it does change the outcome," he said.
But the decision left RSL fans at a loss.
"I'm really disappointed," said Steve McAfee, a West Jordan season-ticket holder. ''It seems like there are a few people who say, 'I love soccer, I love soccer.' Obviously, they don't.''
Even so, Midvale's Scott Stucki argues too many powerful people still are pulling for soccer in Utah. "It will happen somewhere," he said.
Corroon says despite being dubbed a contrarian, his door is open.
''Everybody seems to think it's: 'no, no, no, heck no,' '' he said. ''It's: 'Bring us something that makes sense and we'll consider it.' ''
While Checketts allows the setback is not the "end of the road," he took a swipe at Corroon and the council for their "lack of support."
"They believe, mistakenly, that they have protected the Utah taxpayer. In fact, they have only stood in the way of what would be one of the largest private capital investments ever made in state history."
Although Dolan said he is through courting public money for the stadium, he plans to go to the Legislature to help with a $650 million mega-development - blending shops, restaurants, condos and offices - near 9400 S. State St.
At one point during Tuesday's debate, perhaps in an omen of the vote to come, Dolan's cell phone went off. The ring tone: the Rolling Stones' ''I Can't Get No Satisfaction.''
---
Tribune reporters Heather May, Michael C. Lewis and Jacob Santini contributed to this report.
- 6,775
B.A. wrote:RSL done in Utah?
The team may find warmer welcome elsewhere
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
This is what has excited me most about the new Blues owner, Dave Checketts. He also own Real Salt Lake. If they were to struggle financially he could move them here.
Yep. I saw it coming!
BTW, do you have a link for that aricle?
- 179
Holy shizzle. Great news this morning!
After I posted my suggestion for Real St. Louis I realized there was already a "Real" team in the league. Realty set it and I thought the name wouldn't fly here in St. Louis.
BUT Oh man. If we lose our bid to get a new fresh team, I would gladly take Salt Lakes' team but obviously change their logo to match our needs.
So thinking positively, we now have TWO chances of landing an MLS team. It's funny, when we tried to get an NFL expansion team we lost but looked elsewhere and found the Rams!
Real St. Louis everybody!!!
After I posted my suggestion for Real St. Louis I realized there was already a "Real" team in the league. Realty set it and I thought the name wouldn't fly here in St. Louis.
BUT Oh man. If we lose our bid to get a new fresh team, I would gladly take Salt Lakes' team but obviously change their logo to match our needs.
So thinking positively, we now have TWO chances of landing an MLS team. It's funny, when we tried to get an NFL expansion team we lost but looked elsewhere and found the Rams!
Real St. Louis everybody!!!
- 10K
This is from John Hadley, who is prone to crying wolf:
GOOOOAL: According to an inside source with Major League Soccer, SCP is eyeing a move of Real Salt Lake to St. Louis.
My source indicated that talks between SCP and St. Louis regarding a move of Real Salt Lake are heating up this summer with rapid advancement.
Locally, two sources have confirmed that Checketts & Co. have been in discussions regarding a venue. I was told that influential local leaders have embraced the potential of luring an MLS team to St. Louis.
Attempts to reach Dave Checketts have proven unsuccessful to this point.
Further details on discussion tonight on The Big 550 (KTRS) on Sports Nite from 9:00 p.m. until midnight.
- 10K
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Linky?
Sorry, no link - copied it from another forum. It was apparently part of Hadley's e-mail newsletter.
- 6,775
DeBaliviere wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Linky?
Sorry, no link - copied it from another forum. It was apparently part of Hadley's e-mail newsletter.
I found it: http://www.hadleyonsports.com/getReport ... 5&size=595
rustedhinge wrote:Real St. Louis everybody!!!
How about FC Hoosier?
But to keep with the French theme, shouldn't it be Royale Saint Louis?
Real Salt Lake could just start producing a bunch of RSL gear now, and they wouldn't have to change if they move!
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4039611The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
BTW, do you have a link for that article?
- 5,433
stannate wrote:I wonder if there would be enough space to build an MLS stadium, and include parking, where two dead/dying malls are currently located:
Deer Creek Center, which is between Hanley/Laclede Station Road and Big Bend Boulevard.
Saint Louis Marketplace, off of Manchester between McCausland and Hampton.
Side note: Deer Creek could certainly use some redevelopment, if not a stadium, since the Maplewood Commons retail development north of it on Hanley has sapped any of its retail draw. Perhaps, given Maplewood's popularity, it could be redeveloped along a New Urbanist vein?
I think both locations would require improved access to Interstate 44 to be attractive possibilities for an MLS venue. A collector road might work from the Interstate 44/Hampton Avenue interchange to the Marketplace site, but I'm not sure there's enough room anyway.
As for the Deer Creek Center site, I was just there yesterday replacing stolen license plates (unfortunately, that's becoming a ritual for me in the weeks or months following the ritual of the two-year renewal)- and it always irks me to see this seemingly prime real estate underutilized.
I think there's enough room for a stadium per se at Deer Creek, but parking would be a challenge, as would vehicular ingress/egress from the stadium's parking lots and/or structures onto already-busy nearby streets. I think any plans to add capacity to Shrewsbury Avenue (the nearest link to Interstate 44) would be met with strong resistance as well. Overall, I think Deer Creek is a better candidate for small-scale retail fronting Laclede Station and Big Bend roads with New Urbanism housing between the two north-south corridors, with TOD standards in mind of course...
We may not have a team yet, but it doesn't hurt to consider a variety of locations for a new stadium. Those hoping to attract an expansion team here seem primarily interested in the Metro East, but I think there are still attractive options in and near downtown, or at least the city proper.
Although the bad news in Salt Lake might eventually be good news for us, it's too early to get our hopes up IMHO. And I'd hate to see the powers-that-be put all their eggs into the basket of Real Salt Lake, only to lose the chance to bring that team to Saint Louis AND the expansion franchise. That said, I'm fairly confident that we'll get a team one way or the other. And as long as they're not located west of the Missouri River (I hate driving out there!), they'll have my full support. As for the name, I like either Real Saint Louis or FC Saint Louis, with a King Louis IX logo. There's no need to try too hard with the name IMHO.