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PostMar 26, 2009#26

This may pass because the Missouri DOT is not able to redirect funding from this project.

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PostMar 26, 2009#27

Magnatron wrote:
Maybe we should have included a railway into the new MR bridge.


No, Politicians cant think that far ahead.

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PostMar 28, 2009#28

i fully support Slay. what other option do we have? are you kidding? who would honestly be in favor of Coleman.. i'd love to see her in front of Armstrong Teasdale, trying to convince them to stay downtown. scary.. I want this HSR to happen! give me 250 MPH, forget the 135-150 crap.

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PostMar 28, 2009#29

Yeah let's be real here...anyone other than Slay would be an absolute disaster. I suggest you get out and vote that day because you can bet ACORN will be shufflin' 'em down to the polling place.

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PostApr 15, 2009#30

Midwestern governors push for high-speed rail using stimulus



Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon and Illinois Gov. Pat Quinn, along with six other Midwestern governors, are pushing to use billions of federal stimulus dollars for high-speed passenger rail projects to link cities in their region.



The governors, along with Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, have sent a letter to U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood asking him to support plans for rail corridors between cities in their states, including St. Louis to Chicago, Nixon’s office said Tuesday.





The governors are seeking funding for the projects through the $787 billion American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA).



The so-called Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, first conceived by Missouri and eight other states in the mid-1990s, has done the needed studies and preliminary work for projects that would provide increased mobility for travelers and promote regional and economic development goals, Nixon’s office said.



The Phase I corridors would include Chicago-St. Louis, Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison and Chicago-Detroit-Pontiac. High-speed trains between those cities initially would travel at 110 miles per hour. Nixon said Illinois already has completed an environmental impact statement for the Chicago-St. Louis corridor. The letter states that with ARRA funds, projects in these corridors can be completed between 2012 and 2014. Preliminary engineering estimates indicate that the Phase I projects will require approximately $3.4 billion for track and operating equipment.



The proposal eventually calls for developing service along other routes, including St. Louis to Kansas City.





read more here



http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... ily29.html

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PostApr 15, 2009#31

^ It's probably mentioned earlier in this thread, but the nexus of this high-speed rail initiative is the stronghold of Barack Obama's power. Transportation Secretary, Ray LaHood, is a former Republican Congressan from Illinois.



Not that it matters... It doesn't appear that this "improvement" may only shave off 15 minutes from an already long 5 hour and 30 minute travel time. Thumbs down!


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20090326/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_fast_trains wrote:The only rail service that qualifies under America's lower high-speed standard is Amtrak's 9-year-old Acela Express route connecting Boston to Washington, D.C.



The trains are built to reach speeds up to 150 mph, but only average about 80 mph because of curving tracks and slower-moving freight and passenger trains that share the route. On the densely traveled line from New York City to the nation's capital, the Acela arrives just about 20 minutes earlier than standard service, at more than twice the cost during peak travel times.



"In virtually no way does the Acela Express perform near overseas standards," says author Joseph Vranich, a former Amtrak public affairs spokesman and president of the High Speed Rail Association. In 2004 he wrote a highly critical book titled, "End of the Line: The Failure of Amtrak Reform and the Future of America's Passenger Trains."



He's equally unimpressed with the federal stimulus money.



"Here's what's going to happen: The (Obama) administration will issue these funds in dribs and drabs — to this project and that project — and the result will be an Amtrak train from Chicago to St. Louis that takes maybe 15 minutes off the travel time."



Current Amtrak travel time between the two cities is about five hours, 30 minutes.



Trying to make American trains run faster will always go off the rails, Vranich says, as long as planners keep trying to recreate overseas systems. "We're not Europe. We're not Japan. We're looking at shorter travel times, through population densities that are much higher."



In other words, plans to put a screaming bullet train through American towns with concentrated populations will always face hard challenges.



Which is part of the reason previous efforts failed in Florida, Texas and Southern California.



Ross Capon of the National Association of Railroad Passengers, an advocacy group for rail travel, is a member of the anything-is-better-than-nothing group when it comes to improving train service.



He's also blunt in describing America's inability to make speedy tracks. "The reason why high-speed rail has never taken off is because this country is determined to live on cheap gasoline and airplane travel," he said.



And to his way of thinking, that means Obama's infusion will probably go toward fixing what the country already has.



"It's very likely that all of the money will go to significant improvements of existing tracks. It's not going to build bullet trains," Capon said.

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PostApr 16, 2009#32

From the Wall Street Journal (with quailty content on Chicago-Saint Louis):


APRIL 16, 2009, 4:56 P.M. ET

Obama Unveils Plan to Fund High-Speed Passenger Rail

By CHRISTOPHER CONKEY and ALEX ROTH



President Barack Obama on Thursday set U.S. transportation policy on a new course, announcing at least $13 billion to enhance passenger rail service as an alternative to clogged highways and overcrowded airports.



"Building a new system of high-speed rail in America will be faster, cheaper and easier than building more freeways or adding to an already overburdened aviation system, and everybody stands to benefit," Mr. Obama said, speaking at an event in Washington before leaving for Mexico.



Mr. Obama was flanked by Vice President Joe Biden, a long-time Amtrak rider who looked visibly moved, and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, who submitted a strategic plan to Congress on how the administration plans to carry out its vision. The plan, which includes an $8 billion grant program in the economic-stimulus bill and an additional $5 billion that Mr. Obama wants to allocate over the next five years, is particularly good news for states struggling to maintain existing rail corridors. It also holds out hope that states like California, which has a $30 billion plan with trains capable of traveling between Los Angeles and San Francisco in two hours, will receive grants to accelerate their programs. Manufacturers of rail cars and locomotives also stand to benefit from bolstered passenger rail service.



Amtrak's high-speed Acela Express service, shown here arriving in Boston, got a big boost in ridership following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but transportation officials say the train service and air shuttles are now competing neck-and-neck.



Many other regions are hoping to draw on the funds to set up fast rail corridors. Midwestern states want funding for a plan that would place Chicago at the center of a network of high-speed rail service that extends to St. Louis, Detroit and Madison, Wis. Advocates in the Northeast want money to upgrade Amtrak's Acela service between Washington and Boston, the route that currently comes the closest to the high-speed service common in Europe. Florida officials want up to $1.5 billion to build a passenger line between Tampa and Orlando.



Persistent highway congestion and the desire to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions and imports of foreign oil have prompted a shift in federal policy, and renewed interest at the state and local levels in developing speedy trains and dedicated rail corridors.



Lawmakers representing California have been pressing the Transportation Department for money to fund its plan for a bullet train. In a letter to Mr. LaHood last month, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others urged him to keep in mind "the potential for 'true' high-speed rail with dedicated corridor segments for trains traveling at speeds of 150 mph or more, no grade crossings, and no mixed traffic." The state also is seeking about $690 million in stimulus funding for a project to upgrade rail service between Sacramento and the Bay area.



Even with stimulus funding, it will likely be a decade or more before the California bullet-train service is running. Rail advocates in other states say money spent on existing passenger-rail routes could show benefits sooner.



For example, Amtrak trains take about five hours and 30 minutes to go between St. Louis and Chicago, longer than it takes to drive between them. But Rick Harnish, executive director of the Midwest High Speed Rail Association, a group of individuals, businesses and towns hoping to improve rail service in the area, said service along the route could be reduced to four hours -- faster than it can be driven in a car -- with $400 million in stimulus funding. Mr. Harnish said the money could fund new tracks, signals and flyovers that let passenger tracks pass over freight tracks, and that some of these projects could get under way in a matter of months.



The Chicago-St. Louis rail line is one candidate for stimulus money promised by the Obama administration. The Journal's Christopher Conkey reports.



Among the route's current limitations are that passenger trains going in opposite directions must share a single track and deal with outdated signaling technology that repeatedly slows their progress.



Those obstacles were evident in the experience of Chicago-bound Amtrak train 302 on Wednesday. The train had to detour onto a short waiting track to allow a southbound train to pass, causing a 15-minute delay. Later, the train's engineer, John Lotspeich, scoffed at a signaling error that forced him to halt the train even though the track ahead was clear for miles. "This close to being on time," he said. "This is terrible." The train ended up taking six hours and 20 minutes to complete the route.



Mr. Harnish also hopes that a separate line between the cities will win funding to launch service with trains traveling faster than 200 mph. "This line could become the test for what high-speed rail looks like in this country," Mr. Harnish said this week.





Write to Christopher Conkey at christopher.conkey@wsj.com and Alex Roth at alex.roth@wsj.com



Copyright 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved



This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. Distribution and use of this material are governed by our Subscriber Agreement and by copyright law. For non-personal use or to order multiple copies, please contact Dow Jones Reprints at 1-800-843-0008 or visit



www.djreprints.com


Source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123989461947625407.html



Most important statement:

The Chicago-St. Louis rail line is one candidate for stimulus money promised by the Obama administration.

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PostApr 16, 2009#33

I love the fact that this is being built, but it does represent how different America is now compared to 60 years ago when thinking about infrastructure. We have the chance to start something from scratch (more or less), why not make it better than anything we've ever seen...Hoover dam style.



Why is Amtrak settling for a measly 100 mph train. My dreams of living in a Jetson's world "when I grow up" are long gone. :(

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PostApr 17, 2009#34





St. Louis seems like a much more suitible/efficient location as a hub. I don't see the need for a KC to Des Moines to Chicago route. And there should be a route from StL to Indy IMO. It also seems idiotic to run a Chi to Memphis to NOLA line that doesn't include StL.





Fed to invest $13B in U.S. high-speed rail

St. Louis Business Journal



Four months after unveiling a high-speed rail plan for the United States, the federal government is now allocating money to get the ball rolling.



The White House and the U.S. Department of Transportation on Thursday said it will invest $8 billion from the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, and $1 billion a year for five years as a down payment to develop a passenger rail system.

http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/ ... rround=lfn

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PostApr 17, 2009#35

Moorlander wrote:St. Louis seems like a much more suitible/efficient location as a hub. I don't see the need for a KC to Des Moines to Chicago route. And there should be a route from StL to Indy IMO. It also seems idiotic to run a Chi to Memphis to NOLA line that doesn't include StL.
Agreed. Again, this is just politics, with a Chicagoan wanting to make Chicago all the more important. Not that I would do anything different for StL, and I'm still very much in favor of high speed rail between our cities.

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PostApr 17, 2009#36

The Chicago to New Orleans line is where the City of New Orleans currently runs. It'd be nice if it ran twice a day and one went through StL and joined the route at Carbondale.



Routes from StL to Indy, Louisville/Cincy, and Nashville/Atl would be great too, but starting by improving existing routes before adding new ones is understandable.

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PostApr 17, 2009#37

St. Louis could return as a significant rail hub if we can connect to Indy and then to the east coast, Denver on to the west and be included in any Chicago-Texas line.

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PostApr 17, 2009#38

Maybe its just me - but methinks that the excitement regarding this is a bit overblown. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it and hope to god it goes through - but I think the actual economic effect might be less than people are expecting. I mean, how many additional visitors can one rail line bring? the travel speeds they're talking about are hardly earth shattering and what makes anyone think that Amtrack will suddenly be able to run at full speed? They can't do it now - and their trains currently max out at about 70 or something. What makes everyone think that they will all of a sudden become more efficient? This could just be nothing more than window dressing - kind of like putting a 200 mph speedometer on a cavaliar

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PostApr 18, 2009#39

markofucity wrote:Maybe its just me - but methinks that the excitement regarding this is a bit overblown. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it and hope to god it goes through - but I think the actual economic effect might be less than people are expecting. I mean, how many additional visitors can one rail line bring? the travel speeds they're talking about are hardly earth shattering and what makes anyone think that Amtrack will suddenly be able to run at full speed? They can't do it now - and their trains currently max out at about 70 or something. What makes everyone think that they will all of a sudden become more efficient? This could just be nothing more than window dressing - kind of like putting a 200 mph speedometer on a cavaliar


I can see a benefit for business travelers and tourists from STL and surrounding who want to go to Chicago.

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PostApr 18, 2009#40

markofucity wrote:Maybe its just me - but methinks that the excitement regarding this is a bit overblown. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it and hope to god it goes through - but I think the actual economic effect might be less than people are expecting. I mean, how many additional visitors can one rail line bring? the travel speeds they're talking about are hardly earth shattering and what makes anyone think that Amtrack will suddenly be able to run at full speed? They can't do it now - and their trains currently max out at about 70 or something. What makes everyone think that they will all of a sudden become more efficient? This could just be nothing more than window dressing - kind of like putting a 200 mph speedometer on a cavaliar


I would hope that $13 billion dollars could sort out a few inefficiencies or straighten a few tracks here and there. I'm guessing all of that money isn't going towards new signs and engineer overalls.

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PostApr 18, 2009#41

^ though if it were I may just take the trip to check out the super fly overalls and insanely cool signs.

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PostApr 18, 2009#42

I'm just throwing this out there - I don't know. Hopefully someone else does:



I've always understood that Amtrack cannot run at full speed because of their scheduling incompetence, NOT technical inability. I.E. they can't coordinate the use of their tracks efficiently.



i wonder if the same problem will persist with high speed rail. In other words, if they can't manage to run at full speed with 70 mph trains - why will they suddenly be able to do so with 125mph trains?

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PostApr 18, 2009#43

From what I've read I don't believe it has anything to do with incompetence at all. They have the personnel and means to schedule trains. However, freight trains receive priority on our limited rail network - AMTRAK sits on sidings waiting for much longer freight trains to pass. A large portion of our rail system is single track and is one train runs late then everyone waits. Trains are also speed limited due to the number of at-grade crossings.

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PostApr 18, 2009#44

Another problem Amtrak suffers from, through no fault of their own, is that people in Illinois seem to like driving into the path of oncoming trains. I think it happened three times this past winter alone.

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PostApr 18, 2009#45

^I think you may be right. Seems to happen in Illinois more than anywhere else.

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PostApr 20, 2009#46

Spain seems to be experiencing some interesting results: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124018395386633143.html

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PostApr 20, 2009#47

Well, we shouldn't let our freight rail fall into disrepair. (OK - I know it's already there). Investments in freight rail is extremely important, but the real message this story reinforces is that if Spain can build a system like that the United States can do so much more easily. We do have built infrastructure, but nothing like the obstacles faced in much of older Europe. We need the political will and foresight to make this happen.

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PostApr 20, 2009#48

^Don't forget, Europe had an advantage over the US when it comes to their high speed rail and freight. There was some extensive 'remodeling' in Spain, Italy, Germany, France, etc. from 1936-1945. Essentially they had a clean slate to build off of. Our system is a patchwork of older to old railroad facilities.

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PostApr 20, 2009#49

brickandmortar wrote:^Don't forget, Europe had an advantage over the US when it comes to their high speed rail and freight. There was some extensive 'remodeling' in Spain, Italy, Germany, France, etc. from 1936-1945. Essentially they had a clean slate to build off of. Our system is a patchwork of older to old railroad facilities.


That is a good point but only in a sense. Anytime they build a road or train line they run into antiquities, roman roads, villages, etc. They are also much more urban and while much was "updated" after WWII, the new high speed trains needed a lot of new construction and right-of-way. Basically, if we can build the Interstate highway system we can build high-speed trains to connect our country. This seems to especially make sense on the east coast corridor from Boston to DC and in California and possibly StL-Chicago, but I'd also take a train from StL to Denver if it was a six-hour ride instead of a two-hour flight.

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PostApr 21, 2009#50

I would totally take a 6 hr train to Denver. I'd also take a train to Memphis and Nashville.

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