Yesldai_phs wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2021Highway row to higher speed rail
If Amtrak, or a private operator, were able to operate at 125mph like Brightline will eventually do between West Palm Beach and Orlando, and you retained the current River Runner and Lincoln Service Routes, travel time wouldn't be bad at all. Express from KC to Chicago, or vice versa, would be 4.5 hours. Have a 15-20 minute stop in St. Louis along the way and you'd get about 4 hours and 50 minute travel time. If you were able to run at 110mph in Missouri and Illinois, travel time, with the stop in STL, would be about 5.5 hours. Other numbers...dredger wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2021Thanks Chris, forgot about their interest in CHI - STL. It makes sense as now you have a metro pair w +10 million, relatively flat & straight run w some pretty significant investment made already as well as a run mostly on UP tracks/operator familiar w dispatching passenger rail traffic. So some decent parallels to Brightline existing Florida East Coast run from Miami up to Palm Beach.chriss752 wrote: ↑Dec 15, 2021Regarding Brightline, they previously identified as STL-Chicago as a future "route of interest" a while back. There was an internal memo I found prior to their and the Florida East Coast Industries website redesign earlier this year that listed STL-Chicago as "Brightline 3" after the completion of Brightline West. So, they've been looking at this area, just they haven't included KC in the mixdredger wrote: ↑Dec 15, 2021Addxb2 expressed my thoughts exactly and why I put the question of St Louis and KC going in on supporting a 2nd round trip. Heck, will double down and why not a 3rd round trip express only between the two (maybe 3 wiht Jeff City) cities. It is interesting to note that a Montana group known a Big Sky Passenger Rail is trying to drum support for a county based transportation group to pursue and support reinstated Amtrak service through central ND and Southern Montana. So why not go out of the box instead of analogy of throwing up the arms?
Another twist, considering that the port and business committed giving a Germain airline $5 million a year for the trice weekly flights. Why not reach out to the folks that own brightline and see what possibility of MO, St Louis, KC and Amtrak would entertain in terms of turning over River Runner to a private entity if they would run minimum twice daily and or even three times daily schedule. Would free up equipment for Amtrak and getting a five year commitment to show if a private public is viable option might go over well politically. I brought up Brightline group because you need something more substantial then Indiana poor attempt at it a few years back.
In that respect, it would interesting to think of a Brightline daily express run from Chi town, to St Louis to KC. Could see 8 hour run if you could get 110 in rural IL and 90 mph in rural MO. Doubt they would have much CHI to KC run through traffic base but with most of your traffic base doing CHI-STL and STL-KC city pairs you could see biz travel in morning, afternoon meetings and then return evening trips if Brightline could commit enough trainset & twice daily if I got my math right.
- STL to KC (or vice versa) at 125mph: 2 hours, 15 minutes (express)
- STL to KC (or vice versa) at 110mph: 2 Hours, 30 minutes (express)
- STL to KC (or vice versa) at 90mph: Just over 3 Hours (express)
- STL to Chicago (or vice versa) at 125mph: 2 Hours, 15 Minutes (express)
- STL to Chicago (or vice versa) at 110mph: 2 Hours, 30 Minutes (express)
P.S.: 90mph service in Missouri would be possible if the state were able to pass a law that put passenger trains first. Amtrak would also have to work with Union Pacific on this, but it is very possible.
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If I win a few billion dollars at Powerball I promise I'll invest in your regional rail startup. Maybe add in some commuter trains if there's money left over.
Just be sure to send your investment to 161 NW 6th Street Suite 900, Miami, FL 33136MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2021If I win a few billion dollars at Powerball I promise I'll invest in your regional rail startup. Maybe add in some commuter trains if there's money left over.
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Perhaps that's the argument that can lead to restoring these routes...MarkHaversham wrote: ↑Dec 15, 2021I'm gonna miss Amtrak day trips to Hermann though.
Missouri's Wine Country recognizes significant traffic from STL and I assume KC residents, who take the first train out to wine country and the second train home, imbibing themselves to their fill in between. With the cancellation of the second train, visitors to wine country - especially on weekends - will likely fall precipitously, not just kneecapping leisure travel to central Missouri but also hurting small businesses. And, while Governor Hee Haw has stated that he is not seeking reelection, I'm sure his party wants to retain that office, and they're going to have a much harder time doing so if they're actively hurting Central Missouri's economy.
Their setting policy objectives to cut this route for a funding shortcoming of around $2MM (while the State is recognizing significant revenue increases) will hurt these tourism, hospitality, and beverage industries by much greater than $2MM. This will proactively cripple small businesses in Central Missouri, including the economies of many towns and communities.
Add-in that new Lufthansa-flying German tourists to STL & MO would be drawn to visiting the "American Rhineland" wineries, and likely will want to do so on round-trip day trains.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the area operate a regular old commuter line between St. Louis and Hermann. Take Amtrak out of it for the most part. You could get more frequent service on a local line than a state supported line anyway (even with two daily trains).
Would require some decent investment…but we’re already running passenger trains on the route…it’s not like we’d have to reinvent the wheel.
Operate a shuttle from Washington to Augusta that would open up the new Hoffmann properties to the line as well.
Would require some decent investment…but we’re already running passenger trains on the route…it’s not like we’d have to reinvent the wheel.
Operate a shuttle from Washington to Augusta that would open up the new Hoffmann properties to the line as well.
You could take it one step further and add Alton, IL to Hermann. You could plug in some simple platform stations say for East St. Louis on IL side and FPSE/Grove station, Maplewood, Downton Webster Groves, Pacific in addition to existing Alton, Downtown, Kirkwood stations. Ridership and funding requirements probably in line with Nashville commuter line Music City Star as reference on why it would be doable vs METRAsc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2021I wouldn’t mind seeing the area operate a regular old commuter line between St. Louis and Hermann. Take Amtrak out of it for the most part. You could get more frequent service on a local line than a state supported line anyway (even with two daily trains).
Would require some decent investment…but we’re already running passenger trains on the route…it’s not like we’d have to reinvent the wheel.
Operate a shuttle from Washington to Augusta that would open up the new Hoffmann properties to the line as well.
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What would the cost look like? Skimming a blog, something like $1000/hr to run the trains, and $1mil/mi to upgrade the track. If it's 80mi and 10 hours per day that would be $80mil in capital costs and $3,650,000/yr. If you get 1mil passengers per year paying $6 fares that would get you $6mil/yr. I dunno, my numbers could be way off but it seems like it would need some investment from UP or the Feds or something.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Dec 16, 2021I wouldn’t mind seeing the area operate a regular old commuter line between St. Louis and Hermann. Take Amtrak out of it for the most part. You could get more frequent service on a local line than a state supported line anyway (even with two daily trains).
Would require some decent investment…but we’re already running passenger trains on the route…it’s not like we’d have to reinvent the wheel.
Operate a shuttle from Washington to Augusta that would open up the new Hoffmann properties to the line as well.
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I would love to see a commuter line go all the way up to Alton.
I think that's a neat little town that I'd like to explore a little more.
Maybe you could hit Edwardsville on the way up there, too.
I think that's a neat little town that I'd like to explore a little more.
Maybe you could hit Edwardsville on the way up there, too.
So we’re all in agreement then?
High Speed Rail, Kansas City - St. Louis - Chicago with hourly service.
Regional service. Two lines.
1. Herman - Washington - Eureka (Six Flags) - Kirkwood - Maplewood - Downtown.
2. St. Charles - Downtown - Alton
Total cost: $1.50 give or take $3-6 billion.
Welcome Germans!
High Speed Rail, Kansas City - St. Louis - Chicago with hourly service.
Regional service. Two lines.
1. Herman - Washington - Eureka (Six Flags) - Kirkwood - Maplewood - Downtown.
2. St. Charles - Downtown - Alton
Total cost: $1.50 give or take $3-6 billion.
Welcome Germans!
^ & ^^, Thanks for posting the update Chris and addxb2 goes all in!!
I do think a PPP on River Runner/Lincoln service routes, variation of a CHI/STL/KC only service, is viable. Especially when you could add capacity & speed improvements within the metro area that would also support a future Alton/Downtown/Pacific commuter line. Both private passenger rail option and commuter rail viable options for region IMO.
Region had big wins in rail investment w current rebuilding of Merchant Bridge to full capacity (huge) to a number of individual rail junction projects under the freight way initiative that have secured so grants to move ahead on as well (Big Impacts as well).
However, I think the next step for the region is go beyond Freight way improvements for rail and go along the lines of a Chicago CREATE like level/regional group to identify right of away separations, speed improvements, dispatch and future station projects that would speed up passenger trains through the metro area as well as add capacity for private public partnerships (give Brightline folks competitive access if they are interested in Chi to St Louis service) and future commuter to use that as a basis to go after additional Infrastructure funds. Amtrak getting a big chunk of the rail/transit infrastructure funds but their is some to be had but region needs to get behind a vision that can offer multiple pluses and varied support (think blue infrastructure support on one side of river and entertaining red private passenger support in the midwest) .
I do think a PPP on River Runner/Lincoln service routes, variation of a CHI/STL/KC only service, is viable. Especially when you could add capacity & speed improvements within the metro area that would also support a future Alton/Downtown/Pacific commuter line. Both private passenger rail option and commuter rail viable options for region IMO.
Region had big wins in rail investment w current rebuilding of Merchant Bridge to full capacity (huge) to a number of individual rail junction projects under the freight way initiative that have secured so grants to move ahead on as well (Big Impacts as well).
However, I think the next step for the region is go beyond Freight way improvements for rail and go along the lines of a Chicago CREATE like level/regional group to identify right of away separations, speed improvements, dispatch and future station projects that would speed up passenger trains through the metro area as well as add capacity for private public partnerships (give Brightline folks competitive access if they are interested in Chi to St Louis service) and future commuter to use that as a basis to go after additional Infrastructure funds. Amtrak getting a big chunk of the rail/transit infrastructure funds but their is some to be had but region needs to get behind a vision that can offer multiple pluses and varied support (think blue infrastructure support on one side of river and entertaining red private passenger support in the midwest) .
Is it sad that my first thought is "when will they be available on Walthers?"
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^No. Entirely reasonable. You thinking about fantasy paint schemes for them yet?
Sorry no pics, but I just watched the 303 from Chicago come across the river and that new car is *beautiful*. They had one on the back of the normal 5 car consist, I guess they're not being used yet, or maybe there are passengers in there, no idea. It's taller than the existing cars and beefier, with much bigger windows. Next to this new one it looks like the old horizon (amfleet?) car has no windows at all. Looks very handsome and modern. Can't wait to see these fully deployed.
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^Horizon and Amfleet are two different car types. The Amfleet cars are the rounder ones that matched the Budd Metroliners. They're older, fluted, stainless steel, and lovely. (Read Budd-built.) They look like retro-futurism because they were futurist. Inside frames so the wheels are big and obvious and strange looking. Weird and lovely, but probably hard to maintain. The Horizon cars are . . . fine? They're a bit newer, but older looking. Square and smooth sided. Painted silver rather than stainless steel. Traditional outside frames on the trucks. More conservative, but probably also easier to work with. (Don't quote me on that. I only played railroad. I've done real enough work on a real enough train crew, but strictly as a volunteer and it was a long time ago. Listening to the old hands talk about shimming couplers while you needle file rust off a passenger car roof doesn't really give you the best idea of what's going on with the new equipment.)
Anyway . . . I'm with you. I can't wait to see 'em fully deployed. I'll always have a soft spot for the Amfleet cars. And even the Horizon cars. But Amtrak getting new toys is most generally a win.
Anyway . . . I'm with you. I can't wait to see 'em fully deployed. I'll always have a soft spot for the Amfleet cars. And even the Horizon cars. But Amtrak getting new toys is most generally a win.
Amtrak has more phases than the moon and it makes keeping up in this hobby rather expensive...
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That’s because it’s run by the federal government. Phases, studies, etc. it’s what they do best.It's not. It's gets a lot of funding and regulation of course. So do defense contractors.
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so i rode Amtrak (first time in many many years) from Charlottesville, VA to St. Louis for the holidays and aside from the COVID craziness i gotta say it was an enjoyable (albeit lengthy) experience. took the Northeast Regional from CHO ---> DC, the Capitol Limited from DC ---> CHI, and the Lincoln from CHI ---> STL. anyway, it's Amtrak everywhere all the time for this guy from now on. 
just wish there were a more direct route from DC to STL.
just wish there were a more direct route from DC to STL.Missouri Times - Missouri Legislature could appropriate funds for historic Jefferson City Amtrak station repairs
https://themissouritimes.com/missouri-l ... n-repairs/
https://themissouritimes.com/missouri-l ... n-repairs/
I would argue the opposite. The fact that the interior of the train between STL and Chicago looks exactly like the one between Philadelphia and New York is odd. Those would be two completely different experiences on any other continent. There's basically 7 different rail cars in the entire Amtrak system:shadrach wrote: ↑Dec 18, 2021Amtrak has more phases than the moon and it makes keeping up in this hobby rather expensive...
You've got Amfleets running in Illinois, the Northeast, and the Cascades.
Some Horizons also running in Illinois and Cascades.
If you're taking a long distance train that goes to New York, you'll be on a Viewliner.
If you're on a long distance train that goes to Chicago and/or LA or the Autotrain, you'll be on a Superliner.
California has the similar California Car and Surfliner.
And the the Cascades has a few Talgo sets left.
Then there's Acela of course but none of you are businessmen living in Washington D.C. so you don't really need to acknowledge its existence.
The new Siemens cars will be incredible. Here's a video of Via Rail's new cars that I don't think has been posted here yet. Unfortunately our seat won't be nearly this fancy but they will be an upgrade from the current Amtrak seats, which as of the recent refurbishment are already great. The large windows, luggage racks, and ceiling details will all be the same though.
There have been several different paint scheme phases but that couldn't be a more pointless conversation.
When I wrote ‘more phases than the moon’ I was referring to their livery paint scheme. Just google ‘Amtrak phases’ and it’ll come up with a list of paint schemes. By the time Amtrak fully implemented their ‘phase III’ design they started introducing phase IV….then IVB in the middle of that. Current phase VI is intentionally temporary (celebrating their 50th anniversary) while they figure out phase VII paint scheme for the new Siemens train sets. Supposedly, rumor has it the Charger’s current paint scheme is not official but from the factory.
I was lamenting as someone who models HO Amtrak trains…locos and cars ain’t cheap and by (buy) the time I can afford to update it’s already outdated….
Regarding your post, no argument there. Siemens is a game changer. Since they’re made in the US, I’m hoping they’re similar to amfleet/horizon cars in that, I rode the Virgin train in England and it was as cramped as the smallest pencil tube airplane you’ve ever flown on. Very uncomfortable on that train. I’m pushing 6’ 3” and there’s a reason I liked the spaciousness of Amtrak trains. (Go ahead Beavis/Butthead, make your ‘Virgin/tight’ joke…)
I was lamenting as someone who models HO Amtrak trains…locos and cars ain’t cheap and by (buy) the time I can afford to update it’s already outdated….
Regarding your post, no argument there. Siemens is a game changer. Since they’re made in the US, I’m hoping they’re similar to amfleet/horizon cars in that, I rode the Virgin train in England and it was as cramped as the smallest pencil tube airplane you’ve ever flown on. Very uncomfortable on that train. I’m pushing 6’ 3” and there’s a reason I liked the spaciousness of Amtrak trains. (Go ahead Beavis/Butthead, make your ‘Virgin/tight’ joke…)
