urbanSTL

innov8ion wrote:There always exists potential for marketing and other improvements. Perhaps you could share your ideas in more constructive ways rather than acting in a manner that makes you look rude, belittling and immature. Additionally, there is something to be said for taking the opportunity to reread your posts before clicking submit.

Honestly, I was not being attacking and was only throwing out ideas. I was looking to get some discussion going on how the perspective could be changed, not denials and the blame the customers game. Your posts are honestly coming across as more attacking than mine, which is why you must keep editing them after the fact to tone down your remarks. Since you think before you hit click, why are you editing out past comments of yours in this thread? Yes I read them all before you edited them so I saw your remarks to me.

innov8ion wrote:As a WashU MBA student, I believe I have some understanding about business and strategy. Does this explanation make some sense or does it not?

What makes you think you are the only WashU MBA candidate in this thread? Maybe others aren't so quick to try to use that as a qualifier. Especially when it is your first semester in the program. Oh and how are you plannig to deal with the tax ramifications of your employer assistance above $5250 which will zing you in 2009? Surely LTP warned you of that. Have fun paying that 22k out of pocket.

innov8ion wrote:I think it's great that you have ideas that may help improve downtown businesses. But you know, these are people that have invested their livelihoods into their work.

Again, what makes you think they are the only ones who have done such a thing in this thread? Perhaps you are not as well informed as you believe.

shopgirl10 wrote:Also, several of you have stated that you have never seen marketing material from DT retailers. Where can we place brochures so you can find them? I know every loft building, hotel and office building in the CBD and loft district were given Eat, Shop, Live brochures within the last month. We also have placed coupons for our salon in them. We have plenty of printed material, we may not be placing them in the best locations. Suggestions???

I work in a large downtown office building and have unfortunately never seen any marketing materials. The only thing I see on a semi-regular basis is the Washington Avenue Greensheet in our breakroom.



I might suggest going directly to the HR departments of downtown employers. They can communicate directly to employees via e-mail, memos, etc. If the message is coming from a large group of retailers, as opposed to one or two, it really gives the impression of a value-added service for downtown workers.



Another strategy might be to go directly to office building managers - for instance, pick a day in which anyone who works in Met Square (for example) is entitled to special discounts at all of the retailers in your consortium.

Urban Elitist wrote:

innov8ion wrote:There always exists potential for marketing and other improvements. Perhaps you could share your ideas in more constructive ways rather than acting in a manner that makes you look rude, belittling and immature. Additionally, there is something to be said for taking the opportunity to reread your posts before clicking submit.

Honestly, I was not being attacking and was only throwing out ideas. I was looking to get some discussion going on how the perspective could be changed, not denials and the blame the customers game. Your posts are honestly coming across as more attacking than mine, which is why you must keep editing them after the fact to tone down your remarks. Since you think before you hit click, why are you editing out past comments of yours in this thread? Yes I read them all before you edited them so I saw your remarks to me.

innov8ion wrote:As a WashU MBA student, I believe I have some understanding about business and strategy. Does this explanation make some sense or does it not?

What makes you think you are the only WashU MBA candidate in this thread? Maybe others aren't so quick to try to use that as a qualifier. Especially when it is your first semester in the program. Oh and how are you plannig to deal with the tax ramifications of your employer assistance above $5250 which will zing you in 2009? Surely LTP warned you of that. Have fun paying that 22k out of pocket.

innov8ion wrote:I think it's great that you have ideas that may help improve downtown businesses. But you know, these are people that have invested their livelihoods into their work.

Again, what makes you think they are the only ones who have done such a thing in this thread? Perhaps you are not as well informed as you believe.

Nerd Fight! Hey, you guys should settle this the old fashion way - with Dungeons and Dragons.

ttricamo wrote:Seriously though. Dave's my boy and I can't help but agree with him on UE; he's a bit abrasive.

I'm ok with this.



I just think in the earlier case that the pot was calling the kettle black.

Interesting what is going on in this thread.



Related directly to an article in the current Economist talking about "crowdsourcing"



"WHEN the British government established the Longitude prize in 1714, offering a cash prize for a simple and practical way to determine the position of ships at sea, it was ahead of its time. Rather than funding a single research scientist to solve the problem, it adopted an approach that has lately become known as “crowdsourcing”. Jeff Howe, who coined the term in an article in Wired in 2006, defined it as “the act of taking a job traditionally performed by a designated agent (usually an employee) and outsourcing it to an undefined, generally large group of people in the form of an open call.”



http://www.economist.com/science/tq/dis ... d=11999251





Seems like St. Louis can greatly benefit from crowdsources which is what urbanstl is. (mostly is)





O, and I think Stratego would be a better nerd game. (Anyone know if they have that game online!?)

Urban Elitist wrote:

innov8ion wrote:I think it's great that you have ideas that may help improve downtown businesses. But you know, these are people that have invested their livelihoods into their work.

Again, what makes you think they are the only ones who have done such a thing in this thread? Perhaps you are not as well informed as you believe.

That's a fallacious argument as I never made the claim that others don't. I'm pretty sure we all understood the point was that poor tact does not go over well with anyone. You seem to be a fair person so I doubt you would disagree. Just take it with a grain of salt and let's move on...

^Fair enough.



But again, you've edited your response after the fact. You said you thought paying 1/3 of the cost for your MBA was fair. Why did you edit that out? Surely you "thought before you typed".



I'll swallow said salt however and move on.

zink wrote:Interesting what is going on in this thread.



Related directly to an article in the current Economist talking about "crowdsourcing"



"WHEN the British government established the Longitude prize in 1714, offering a cash prize for a simple and practical way to determine the position of ships at sea, it was ahead of its time. Rather than funding a single research scientist to solve the problem, it adopted an approach that has lately become known as “crowdsourcing”. Jeff Howe, who coined the term in an article in Wired in 2006, defined it as “the act of taking a job traditionally performed by a designated agent (usually an employee) and outsourcing it to an undefined, generally large group of people in the form of an open call.”



http://www.economist.com/science/tq/dis ... d=11999251





Seems like St. Louis can greatly benefit from crowdsources which is what urbanstl is. (mostly is)



O, and I think Stratego would be a better nerd game. (Anyone know if they have that game online!?)

Stratego online: http://boardgames.about.com/od/stratego ... Online.htm



Great point! This is directly related to "Wisdom of the Crowds" / Web 2.0 methodologies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wisdom_of_Crowds



I also like the idea of creating decision markets based on incentives (it's more accurate if game players put something they value on the line, but this could be considered gambling so there are legal ramifications...)



Anyhoo, I'd like to better incorporate smart "crowdsourcing" paradigms into large enterprises. Maybe I'll start with one.

innov8ion wrote:As a WashU MBA student, I believe I have some understanding about business and strategy. Does this explanation make some sense or does it not?

Didn't you just start the program, or was that an old post I read recently?

saltearth wrote:The original model for retail development was to have far greater concentration, so this spread dilutes the impression of retail.

I think this is the single biggest problem facing downtown retail. No matter how much organization or marketing goes into an effort to create a downtown shopping "district", you can't just "go shopping" downtown, you have to go to a shop, then go to a different shop, and then to a different shop. It's not shopping, it's hopping.

saltearth wrote:With regard to evening hours and missed opportunities. I agree that for many of the businesses that are adjacent to restaurants this is a wise move. I would also venture to say that many of them have tried this and found it not worth their while.

I think this is probably the second biggest issue. At least one retail study found that over 70% of retail sales occur after 5:30 on weekdays and on Sunday. Without a good concentration of stores all committing to evening and Sunday hours on a regular basis, I can see that it probably wouldn't be worth any individual (or even a couple) store's while to add hours. But, the bottom line is that Downtown stores are not open when most people want to shop.

saltearth wrote:I would also add that simply being open when people are downtown is not always the ticket to successful business. This past Saturday all the parking around our business on Locust was taken up with tailgaters (similar to when the Rams play). We had one, yes one, sale and after a while no one even came into the store.

Understandable, the typical Rams fan is probably not your target customer. Sorry to pick on you here but this is an actual example...



A couple of years ago my wife, a friend and I came down for brunch on a Saturday around 11am at Rooster. Stupid us, it Race for the Cure just finished and it was packed and the streets were teeming with women of all ages. No big deal, our friend specifically was interested in shopping at Salt of the Earth. We walk over and the store is closed, check the hours posted on the door, check hour watches, 11:10, wait for a while and finally leave.



Other than Kitchen K, nothing else we saw was open before noon, by that time most of the participants are already headed out of downtown, as did we.



On a beautiful Sunday in March we decided to go downtown stroll and shop along Washington Ave. Nothing was open, including most restaurants. We weren't the only ones. The Valley tournament was in progress and there were a bunch of fans wandering along Washington Ave. along with us.



Often we blame parking and the fact that people won't walk a couple of blocks. But I think that actually might be less an issue than inconvenient and inconsistent hours and a lack of cohesiveness within the downtown shopping environment. When you put it all together shopping downtown is more difficult than it should be.

Thanks for the feedback and I apologize for not being open two years ago. Actually it was probably a situation where our employee at the time, who lives south of downtown had a bit of difficulty getting to us due to closed roads and traffic. This is every business owner's nightmare, and we do not always know if employees are there on time or not-especially fun when we get a call about this from St. Louis when we are in the middle of nowhere in Mexico.



But I digress. There are retailers who are open on Sunday, some of us are not on Washington, though, so think of those of us off Washington. We are open for precisely the observation made about dining/retail. I am a firm believer in the "if you feed them they will come" draw to retail. We and UMA benefit from the brunch business at Rooster and have adjusted our hours to be open on Sunday for precisely this reason.



Many of the retailers are sole proprieters or have very small staffs. Decisions have to be made to maximize these scarce human resources, and that means that the hours may appear to the outside world to be too limited. Until the density of downtown increases most likely the best tactic is clustered marketing where businesses in close proximity offer unified hours to enhance the shopping experience.



My husband's solution to improved business at the end of the business day? Speed bumps on Locust.

MattonArsenal wrote:I think this is the single biggest problem facing downtown retail. No matter how much organization or marketing goes into an effort to create a downtown shopping "district", you can't just "go shopping" downtown, you have to go to a shop, then go to a different shop, and then to a different shop. It's not shopping, it's hopping.

IMHO, this is one of downtown's biggest challenges. Don't get me wrong, because I don't think there's anything wrong with where downtown's retailers have located. However, I find it sad that the one project hailed as the panacea to save downtown retail (St. Louis Centre) ultimately weakened it more than any other decision. St. Louis Centre took out a solid if indistinguished row of buildings along Sixth and Seventh streets that was home to several retailers, the largest of which was Woolworth's. Dillard's closed many of the downtown stores it inherited when it swallowed department stores like Stix Baer & Fuller, but it may have fared better if St. Louis Centre hadn't been built. Other poor decisions nearby, like the demolition of the Ambassador Theater and Boyd's have also ripped away at what was once the heart of downtown retail.



This is why I'm so disappointed with the delays in Mercantile Exchange. Although I realize it would bring mostly chains to downtown, I also believe a rising tide raises all ships. Right now, Macy's is an island unto itself, and while its parent company has made some improvements, more could and should be done. With additional retailers nearby as part of MX, people would be more likely to make downtown a retail destination, and independent retailers can take advantage of this by offering something beyond the retailers that got these people downtown in the first place.

IIRC, the convention center expansion also wiped out quite a bit of retail along Washington.

The store was empty this morning. Not all that suprising, seeing as they've had an off-centered "SALE" sign in the window for the past several months. Wonder if the timing has anything to do with Matt Burghoff's sentencing a couple weeks ago (his wife owned the store, I believe)...

This is a great little space with even a great better location... I am sure it will be rented soon.

I walked by as well. It says they have moved locations to off of Jefferson Ave... Ill look again and see exactly where.

see exactly where

Kirkwood, to their other location.

publiceye wrote:

see exactly where

Kirkwood, to their other location.

Their Kirkwood location is on Jefferson Avenue in downtown K-Wood, just to clarify further.

Wonder what they'll do about the sign.

Sign is gone, too bad I always thought it was a neat one.

This is too bad, as it was my wife's favorite boutique downtown. It's a shame the owner(s) didn't close the Kirkwood location and keep the downtown store. I mean, it's not like downtown Kirkwood has the same challenges with attracting and retaining businesses that downtown St. Louis faces, but I'm sure that (i.e., the lack of critical mass and sufficient pedestrian traffic) was at least part of the reasons that the decision was made in the first place.

My understanding on the Kirkwood location - it is owned by a relative of the Burgoffs. Originally it was owned and managed by Carolyn but was then sold to a niece. This may be part of the reason Kirkwood remains and DT is closed.

Sign on old Paper Dolls space announces an “Italian Market” coming soon. Will focus on St. Louis’s Italian heritage with local items and gift baskets.



Looks like they want to be tourist oriented, means I won’t have to venture over to the Hill for my Oldani