urbanSTL

Macy's like flyers? Really. Have you ever been in a Macy's? Is that what you want you neighborhood stores to look like? As a former May Company employee who participated in the design of the flyer's I can tell you first hand they do not work. You train people to shop only sales, erode your margin, then force yourself to mark up merchandise even higher to maintain profits and shareholder expectations. So if that is what you would like then I am happy to take that to the Merchants Association. In the mean time, we offer the best merchandise at reasonable prices while maintaining our quality and selection. Rather than waste money on coupons and false sales.

shopgirl10 wrote:Macy's like flyers? Really. Have you ever been in a Macy's? Is that what you want you neighborhood stores to look like? As a former May Company employee who participated in the design of the flyer's I can tell you first hand they do not work. You train people to shop only sales, erode your margin, then force yourself to mark up merchandise even higher to maintain profits and shareholder expectations. So if that is what you would like then I am happy to take that to the Merchants Association. In the mean time, we offer the best merchandise at reasonable prices while maintaining our quality and selection. Rather than waste money on coupons and false sales.

Look I'm just throwing ideas out there; you are very quick to shrug it off as "It won't work".



Show me where I said your store needs look and feel like Macy's? I said nothing of the sort. Instead of getting all offended for no reason re-read what I posted.



You don't have to make the coupons for discounts, make it for an amenity, like a free beverage while they shop. How would that "erode your brand" or "train people to shop for sales".



I only cited Macy's to give you the idea for the format(dimensions, glossy color, multi-page) of the catalog. It would be to show customers what you all stock, and that they are priced reasonably. I don't see how that wouldn't battle the perception you were complaining about above. Ok, substitute Macy’s for say Arden B’s catalogs if that makes you feel psychologically better. They don’t do coupons, but they DO advertise what they stock. I assure that works because my fiancé goes and buys stuff whenever one of those things comes in the mail.



Work with your fellow Boutique owners and bounce ideas off each other. The purpose of brainstorming is not to criticize ideas, it's to generate as many ideas as possible, then narrow them down later.



As I stated earlier, your website needs a dedicated area on the main page directing people to a dedicated reasonably priced items. You should have your link and logo attached to your profile here. You have no discernible marketing plan, yet you complain about the perception people have of your store. Doesn’t make much sense.

Urban Elitist wrote: You have no discernible marketing plan, yet you complain about the perception people have of your store. Doesn’t make much sense.

Just because a person doesn't lay it out on an online forum doesn't mean they don't have a marketing plan.



Edit: I think Moorlander is on to something with the comment about a downtown organization. Where I last lived (Columbia, MO) there was a strong, active and successful downtown organization to improve and promote their area (discoverthedistrict.com). Other areas of St. Louis such as the Central West End (thecwe.com) and The Loop (Visittheloop.com) have similar organizations.



I've been searching this afternoon and I haven't found much for the Washington Avenue area (Having to search instead of having an organization prominently known and visible is a large problem already). The closest I've found is the Downtown St. Louis Partnership (downtownstl.org). However, at least the website doesn't seem to be geared towards residents or those visiting the area for events, shopping, dining etc. There isn't a list of area shops, restaurants or services (let alone descriptions or a list of events each business is having). The events list for the area is out of date (it still features July). While the map does include the entire Washington Ave. area, the site seems to be more geared towards downtown than the Washington Ave. garment district. Finally, there isn't a good listing of information on how someone could get involved.



Whether it is the Downtown St. Louis Partnership or a new organization, I think the Washington Avenue Garment District really needs an organization to improve it, promote it and set it apart, perhaps using other successful organizations/districts as a model. I don't own a business myself, but I'm going to continue looking into this to see what I can do.

I hate to have Jennifer do all the heavy lifting here. Both this and the comments about the DT merchants limiting their hours & merchandise are both mis-guided and ill informed. To assist you all, yes there (kinda) is a merchant's association. We do have a print piece, available at most stores and also at the CVC information office on Wash Ave. You can even print a map on our website, www.eatshoplive.com.



Many downtown retailers signed up once upon a time for a resident discount program. If you see a sticker with a big "R" then as a resident you already have a discount.



Just as Jennifer said, if we are not offering merchandise that you are interested in we are all interested in suggestions-no mind readers here! The suggestion of the mulitple page color monthly flier, even at 3-5 K per month is unrealistic. We are all small, independent retailers, and in addition to the cost of this is the job of design, not to mention the bigger nut of coordination and collections. Many of the businesses are limited to one or two employees or sole proprietors who already have their plate full with their own businesses.



I would recommend that if the residents are interested in supporting the retailers, be proactive and educate yourself about what exists. Do not limit yourself to a particular type of shop, explore even the ones that have been around for years-that's part of the fun of living downtown. Word of mouth goes a lot longer, is often more credible,and is greatly appreciated. None of what we do here is easy and whereas we may appear to be giving short shrift on the marketing, that is often tied to extremely limited resources. There have also been a number of joint efforts, the Downtown Gallery walk, holiday marketing and promotions, designer-targeted events, and even "WOW"-Women On Washington efforts to name a few. It is my hope and expectation that these efforts will continue.

Thanks for the link to eatshoplive.com !

The last couple of times i've been on Washinton for dinner, drinks, almost none of the retail stores were open. I live in the city and would rather shop there than run out to the mall but, if your not open when I want to shop then i go elsewhere. I think there is a missed oppurtunity with the hours that alot of the stores keep.

saltearth wrote: The suggestion of the mulitple page color monthly flier, even at 3-5 K per month is unrealistic. We are all small, independent retailers, and in addition to the cost of this is the job of design, not to mention the bigger nut of coordination and collections. Many of the businesses are limited to one or two employees or sole proprietors who already have their plate full with their own businesses.

Is anyone actually reading what I am saying before criticizing?



I agree 3-5k a month would be unrealistic. I said 3-5k bi-annually for a boutique flyer that all boutique owners could share the cost of publishing. Why is that such a difficult thing to do?



The idea of forming a current Boutique association is a good one. That is the kind of thing they should all be doing to work together so they can all make more money.

Since 2004 there have been organizations of retailers/boutiques/galleries/restaurants downtown. The first incarnation, organized the Downtown Gallery Walk on the first Friday of each month. Subsequently efforts outside of a formal organization with the support of the Downtown Partnership and a number of the developers staged the first "new Downtown" holiday promotional event with Festivus (2005). Additionally there were group ads designed and paid for by the participating businesses. In January 2006 a group of motivated businesses met to organize the Downtown St. Louis Merchant's Association. This group staged, again with Partnership, developer and other supporting businesses more events, ad campaigns, and the Downtown Shopping rack card (now a tri-fold with shopping & dining) and its related website. During the holiday season we sponsored a free trolley, offered extended hours, including one week-day evening. All of these efforts have been met with a variety of results, as usual, some hits and some misses.



We have several challenges downtown, and perhaps this will help you all to realize that we are not a munch of mutton-heads, who have less of a command of the obvious than those who post on this forum. The first is the geographical spread of the retail. For the sake of clarity and not to slight those businesses that have been in operation for years and years, this reference is to the newer crop of retailers. To the east, at Broadway and Olive is Niche, with Atom a half-block west of them. There is a cluster (actually currently two of us) on Locust east of Tucker, then you jump to Washington Ave, the area most folks are familiar with. The eastern most point would be Art St. Louis at 555 Washington or the Time at 10th & Washington and now extending to 20th & Washington with the Tudor building, so, 10 blocks walking with great gaps in between. The original model for retail development was to have far greater concentration, so this spread dilutes the impression of retail.



The second challenge is financial. Many of us were recruited to move or expand our businesses downtown with vague expectations of potential revenues. The turnover in some of the retail establishments is to some extent due to financial goals not met. External factors such as the economy and softening real estate markets contribute to these challenges.



The third challenge is that of human resources. Between turnover of businesses and the needs of the businesses owners to focus on their own survival, it has proven a challenge to sustain consistent membership that has the ability to organize and coordinate group efforts as has been suggested.



With regard to evening hours and missed opportunities. I agree that for many of the businesses that are adjacent to restaurants this is a wise move. I would also venture to say that many of them have tried this and found it not worth their while. Perhaps if the only time you shop is when you are out eating and drinking, it makes sense, but my response would be, is that the only time you are downtown? Why not try coming down on a Saturday or Sunday? A number of us are open on Sundays.



I would also add that simply being open when people are downtown is not always the ticket to successful business. This past Saturday all the parking around our business on Locust was taken up with tailgaters (similar to when the Rams play). We had one, yes one, sale and after a while no one even came into the store.



I apologize for this being too long, but I hope it provides some informative facts for those of you who speculate or are interested in Downtown retail.



I will also extend an invitation. Our next meeting is this coming Tuesday at 6:00 pm at Union Station. We have had dialogues about how to reach the resident base and would love to have some motivated liasons to work as facilitators. You can PM me for more information if you wish.



We all want to be successful, can't think of too many businesses who open with the goal to fail-so if you want to help you are welcome to do so.

Excellent post, saltearth.

Urban Elitist wrote:Make a prominent theme on your website that advertises bargain items. Advertise your website on your user account here and direct people to it.



Change the paradigm that people have that all DT boutiques must be expensive. It’s not complicated, just make a marketing plan and execute it. If you want I’ll even help you guys.

With your passion and depth of knowledge, perhaps you could become a top-notch boutique consultant.



Why would a boutique emphasize bargain prices? Would they really want to compare/compete with a department store? It weakens the brand.



Boutiques should market their strengths. In my opinion of the Time, they don't just sell classy and timeless pieces -- they sell excellent service and craft relationships over time. They know who their clientele is, and they cater to their individual needs. This is highly valued by their clientele.



Just my opinion.

shopgirl10 wrote:I think people need to move past the false perception that if a store is downtown it is expensive. Every store down here carries a wide range of price points.

I believe the debate started with this comment.



Urban Elitist was simply pointing out that it is the downtown retail managers' responsibility to correct that perception, not the potential customers' as shopgirl10 seems to be implying. How long do you think you will be in business if you start blaming your target market for not patronizing your store?



"Why, I opened this store to sell purple whirlygigs!", exclaims shopgirl. "I know people want purple whirlygigs, and hundreds of people walk by on the sidewalk every day, but nobody is buying. Apparently, they think my purple whirlygigs are too expensive. Clearly there is something wrong with them, that they don't want to buy my purple whirlygigs!"

innov8ion wrote:Why would a boutique emphasize bargain prices? Would they really want to compare/compete with a department store? It weakens the brand.



Boutiques should market their strengths. In my opinion of the Time, they don't just sell classy and timeless pieces -- they sell excellent service and craft relationships over time. They know who their clientele is, and they cater to their individual needs. This is highly valued by their clientele.

Which would be fine except shopgirl10 was complaining that there was a false perception that all botique stores are expensive. Her and other shop owners seem to think that the customer should come to their shops to educate themselves on their merchandise.



That is absurd. If they want the perception to change, they need to do somehting to change it.

jlblues wrote:Urban Elitist was simply pointing out that it is the downtown retail managers' responsibility to correct that perception, not the potential customers' as shopgirl10 seems to be implying. How long do you think you will be in business if you start blaming your target market for not patronizing your store?

You are the first person to have actually read and understood what I have been saying.

jlblues wrote:

shopgirl10 wrote:I think people need to move past the false perception that if a store is downtown it is expensive. Every store down here carries a wide range of price points.

I believe the debate started with this comment.



Urban Elitist was simply pointing out that it is the downtown retail managers' responsibility to correct that perception, not the potential customers' as shopgirl10 seems to be implying. How long do you think you will be in business if you start blaming your target market for not patronizing your store?

Have you even considered that individuals that may perceive boutiques to be expensive may or may not be in a boutique's target market? Every boutique is different. Some may focus more or less on price. For those that do, perhaps it would be beneficial to place some focus on changing those perceptions.

jlblues wrote:"Why, I opened this store to sell purple whirlygigs!", exclaims shopgirl. "I know people want purple whirlygigs, and hundreds of people walk by on the sidewalk every day, but nobody is buying. Apparently, they think my purple whirlygigs are too expensive. Clearly there is something wrong with them, that they don't want to buy my purple whirlygigs!"

That appears to be both an unfair and dishonest representation of what she said. Clearly people are buying as she stated her business was very successful. It's also rational to consider that those outside its target market may not stop in but may be pleasantly surprised if they do. She never stated that there is anything wrong with those that don't.



I can't speak for the strategies and implementations of other downtown boutiques as I'm less familiar.



In conclusion, I'm surprised to find some forum members so bent on attacking and misrepresenting downtown retail. Wasn't this forum based upon support of city progress? We may want to take a step back and think about this if conversation is able to mature.

innov8ion wrote:

jlblues wrote:

shopgirl10 wrote:I think people need to move past the false perception that if a store is downtown it is expensive. Every store down here carries a wide range of price points.

I believe the debate started with this comment.



Urban Elitist was simply pointing out that it is the downtown retail managers' responsibility to correct that perception, not the potential customers' as shopgirl10 seems to be implying. How long do you think you will be in business if you start blaming your target market for not patronizing your store?

Have you even considered that individuals that may perceive boutiques to be expensive may or may not be in a boutique's target market? Every boutique is different. Some may focus more or less on price. For those that do, perhaps it would be beneficial to place some focus on changing those perceptions.

Yes, I believe that was UE's original point. Shopgirl10 was complaining that she believes there is a misperception that all downtown retail is expensive. UE suggested that perhaps it would be more constructive to try to do something about that misperception, rather than assigning blame and complaining about it. He then noted that, as a downtown resident, he has never seen any marketing materials for downtown businesses, which would be one obvious method of correcting that misperception. So, again, whose responsibility is it to correct that apparent misperception, UE's (assuming he is a potential customer), or shopgirl10's, along with any other merchants that believe there is a problem?

innov8ion wrote:

jlblues wrote:"Why, I opened this store to sell purple whirlygigs!", exclaims shopgirl. "I know people want purple whirlygigs, and hundreds of people walk by on the sidewalk every day, but nobody is buying. Apparently, they think my purple whirlygigs are too expensive. Clearly there is something wrong with them, that they don't want to buy my purple whirlygigs!"

You know that's not an honest representation of what she said. Clearly people are buying as she stated her business was very successful.



I can't speak for the strategies and implementations of other downtown boutiques as I'm less familiar.

She was defending an hypothetical unhappy merchant, by placing herself in that merchant's shoes, and then complaining about a conclusion that she has apparently reached while in her own shoes. Which perspective I used in the above representation is irrelevant, not dishonest.

jlblues wrote:

innov8ion wrote:

jlblues wrote:"Why, I opened this store to sell purple whirlygigs!", exclaims shopgirl. "I know people want purple whirlygigs, and hundreds of people walk by on the sidewalk every day, but nobody is buying. Apparently, they think my purple whirlygigs are too expensive. Clearly there is something wrong with them, that they don't want to buy my purple whirlygigs!"

You know that's not an honest representation of what she said.



I can't speak for the strategies and implementations of other downtown boutiques as I'm less familiar.

She was defending another retailer, by placing herself in that retailer's shoes, and then complaining about a conclusion that she apparently reached while in her own shoes. Which perspective I used in the above representation is irrelevant, not dishonest.

In your paragraph you claimed she stated that there was something wrong with people not wanting to buy purple whirlygigs because of price perceptions. She never once stated that. I think a fair person would see that as a dishonest representation of shopgirl's words.



When people are dishonest and work to belittle others, how do you think it affects their integrity and credibility?



The crux of this business issue revolves around both target markets and price perceptions. You have yet to acknowledge that individuals that may perceive boutiques to be expensive may or may not be in a boutique's target market.



Every boutique is different. Some may focus more or less on price. For those that do, perhaps it would be beneficial to place some focus on changing those perceptions.



As a WashU MBA student, I believe I have some understanding about business and strategy. Does this explanation make some sense or does it not?

It's also rational to consider that those outside its target market may not stop in but may be pleasantly surprised if they do. She never stated that there is anything wrong with those that don't.

Also, several of you have stated that you have never seen marketing material from DT retailers. Where can we place brochures so you can find them? I know every loft building, hotel and office building in the CBD and loft district were given Eat, Shop, Live brochures within the last month. We also have placed coupons for our salon in them. We have plenty of printed material, we may not be placing them in the best locations. Suggestions???

jlblues wrote:Shopgirl10 was complaining that she believes there is a misperception that all downtown retail is expensive.

I still don't see her comment as a complaint. She was simply rebuting Downtown2007's comment where he stated a perception about the cost of downtown retail. One of the best ways to challenge a presumption is to try to change the perception where the presumption is being presented. If people on this forum are saying downtown retail is expensive then it makes sense to mention on this forum that downtown retail is not as expensive as it is perceived to be.

innovation wrote:In conclusion, I'm surprised to find some forum members so bent on attacking and misrepresenting downtown retail. Wasn't this forum based upon support of city progress?

This is something that often surprises me about this forum. Do the supporters of the city on the forum actually go check out the businesses around the area as they open? I know I do. Since moving down here I've tried to visit most all the businesses near by. Some weren't for me, but at least I now know what they have and I can spread the word about them to other folks interested in downtown.

innov8ion wrote: The crux of this business issue revolves around both target markets and price perceptions. You have yet to acknowledge that individuals that may perceive boutiques to be expensive may or may not be in a boutique's target market.



Every boutique is different. Some may focus more or less on price. For those that do, perhaps it would be beneficial to place some focus on changing those perceptions. All this makes sense, doesn't it?

If the misconception is not among her target market, then why was she here complaining about it? She implied that a segment of her target market believes her store to be too expensive. She said that she carries a wide range of product prices. I suggested that instead of complaining and blaming the consumer, perhaps responsibility falls on her to educate her customers.



Another merchant, saltearth, even had the audacity to suggest customers are responsible to come to their store to learn about what they carry:

saltearth wrote:I would recommend that if the residents are interested in supporting the retailers, be proactive and educate yourself about what exists.

Those are ridiculous attitudes to have. You the merchant should be educating the consumers what your business is about, not the other way around. If they want perceptions to change, they need to do some marketing.

shopgirl10 wrote:Also, several of you have stated that you have never seen marketing material from DT retailers. Where can we place brochures so you can find them? I know every loft building, hotel and office building in the CBD and loft district were given Eat, Shop, Live brochures within the last month. We also have placed coupons for our salon in them. We have plenty of printed material, we may not be placing them in the best locations. Suggestions???

Again, I never said this. Read what I am typing.



Of coure I've seen marketing materials for downtown retailers. What I have not seen are brochures for you or any other boutique. MAIL THEM TO EVERY DT RESIDENT AS I HAVE STATED, do not just leave them sitting in buildings, no one picks that junk up.

innov8tion wrote:In conclusion, I'm surprised to find some forum members so bent on attacking and misrepresenting downtown retail. Wasn't this forum based upon support of city progress?

No one is attacking retailers. I fully support all DT businesses and I have been inside Time, and my fiance has bought clothing there. This discussion is about the attitude that it's somehow the consumers fault that there is a perception about her industry.

Urban Elitist wrote:Those are ridiculous attitudes to have.

I don't think it is ridiculous at all. Downtown will never thrive if people in the area never check out the businesses around them. Advertising can certainly be beneficial, but if it takes that much targeted advertising to get people already in the area to stop leaving the area for their shopping needs then half the battle for downtown is already lost. If people already in the area have that little interest in checking out stores around them, then people who haven't checked out the area are likely going to have even less interest.

Urban Elitist wrote:MAIL THEM TO EVERY DT RESIDENT AS I HAVE STATED

Yes master? (What the hell?)

Urban Elitist wrote:

innov8ion wrote: The crux of this business issue revolves around both target markets and price perceptions. You have yet to acknowledge that individuals that may perceive boutiques to be expensive may or may not be in a boutique's target market.



Every boutique is different. Some may focus more or less on price. For those that do, perhaps it would be beneficial to place some focus on changing those perceptions. All this makes sense, doesn't it?

If the misconception is not among her target market, then why was she here complaining about it? She implied that a segment of her target market believes her store to be too expensive. She said that she carries a wide range of product prices. I suggested that instead of complaining and blaming the consumer, perhaps responsibility falls on her to educate her customers.

I failed to see where she was complaining or blaming anyone. But I guess I'm not as bitter as you to understand your perspective.

Urban Elitist wrote:Another merchant, saltearth, even had the audacity to suggest customers are responsible to come to their store to learn about what they carry:

saltearth wrote:I would recommend that if the residents are interested in supporting the retailers, be proactive and educate yourself about what exists.

Those are ridiculous attitudes to have. You the merchant should be educating the consumers what your business is about, not the other way around. If they want perceptions to change, they need to do some marketing.

You acknowledge Salt of the Earth and other downtown businesses advertise and are therefore proactive in educating the local market of their presence, services and wares. But business takes two to tango, verdad? saltearth and other business owners merely suggest that potential customers may want to stop by and see for themselves.



There always exists potential for marketing and other improvements. Perhaps you could share your ideas in more constructive ways rather than acting in a manner that makes you look rude, belittling and immature. Additionally, there is something to be said for taking the opportunity to reread your posts before clicking submit.



By the way, I think Salt of the Earth has an amazing and unique collection of art and other wares. I'm especially fond of the still-life fruit paintings by the hispanic gentleman whose name escapes me. His pieces look so real and vibrant! It makes me want to take a bite but I know I'd end up with indigestion and have to deal with an unhappy store owner.

innov8ion wrote:There always exists potential for marketing and other improvements. Perhaps you could share your ideas in more constructive ways rather than acting in such a rude, belittling and immature manner. Additionally, there is something to be said for taking the opportunity to reread your posts before clicking submit.

I tried to throw out a few ideas and was quickly dismissed. I do support these businesses, I have been inside them and I will go again. You are being quite irrational on this issue. Maybe you have a little crush on Jennifer?



I want to apologize to shopgirl10 if I have come off as attacking her. I felt as though I offered some ideas, and then people ignored them and came up with excuses.



I am communicating via PM with shopgirl10 and she has some good ideas about how to do some new marketing, so she is being proactive. Time is a wonderful boutique, and I'm sure it will remain succusful.

Urban Elitist wrote:

innov8ion wrote:There always exists potential for marketing and other improvements. Perhaps you could share your ideas in more constructive ways rather than acting in a manner that makes you look rude, belittling and immature. Additionally, there is something to be said for taking the opportunity to reread your posts before clicking submit.

I tried to throw out a few ideas and was quickly dismissed. I do support these businesses, I have been inside them and I will go again. You are being quite irrational on this issue. Maybe you have a little crush on Jennifer?



I want to apologize to shopgirl10 if I have come off as attacking her. I felt as though I offered some ideas, and then people ignored them and came up with excuses.



I am communicating via PM with shopgirl10 and she has some good ideas about how to do some new marketing, so she is being proactive. Time is a wonderful boutique, and I'm sure it will remain succusful.

Were they dismissive of your ideas? I don't know. Tell me this, UE. Do you think you might be dismissive with someone who came across to you like you came across to shopgirl and saltearth in this thread?



I think it's great that you have ideas that may help improve downtown businesses. But you know, these are people that have invested their livelihoods into their work. Adversarial tact may turn them off to any ideas you may have. I'm glad you're now reaching out to shopgirl10 in a constructive way.



Do I have a crush on Jennifer? I think she's talented and funny although I hadn't thought about any crush. I heard her boyfriend is in a rough biker gang and I would fear any retribution if he were to find out about any improper advances.



Is my perspective on these matters irrational? In this case, I am content with the possibility.

^ I have seen Inno in his biker shorts and it is pretty tempting. Thanks for the idea. Maybe we will leave the BF behind next time....

Here is an idea...



Post a sign that shows what days and times they are open. I walked by today and noticed they dont have a sign that shows when they are open... not even a sign showing they WERE open. (They were open)

We do not have our hours posted as our front door glass was recently broken out when we were vandalized. We are waiting on the vinyl letter people to replace the hours. We do have an open/close sign on the left door (it has a picture of a lady on it).