Just posted another update at the New Old North Blog.
I just put up another update on the New Old North Blog.
Work has now started on the Pedestrian Mall itself, although it is only visible from the alley. Several more buildings will be starting soon, and the commercial portion will close in the near future allowing work to start on all buildings. I woke up too late this morning to attend the weekly construction meeting, but I will be sure to get an update on the current scheduling tomorrow.
Work has now started on the Pedestrian Mall itself, although it is only visible from the alley. Several more buildings will be starting soon, and the commercial portion will close in the near future allowing work to start on all buildings. I woke up too late this morning to attend the weekly construction meeting, but I will be sure to get an update on the current scheduling tomorrow.
Just posted another update on the New Old North Blog.
I also made a mistake a few posts back even though I knew better. The Mall development itself is being branded as Crown Square. The Crown Square development taken together with the North Market Place homes is being branded as Crown Village.
I also made a mistake a few posts back even though I knew better. The Mall development itself is being branded as Crown Square. The Crown Square development taken together with the North Market Place homes is being branded as Crown Village.
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Matt, are there plans to fix up 2626? N 14th? It's the building just to the right of 2828 N. 14th. (the one with the white storefront)
Yes, the demo men were in it yesterday. It is physically connected with little separation to 2828. It's basically one building.
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^Wow, that is good news. That building is in terrible shape. It looks even worse from the back. I'm glad to see it's getting fixed. I always thought it would collapse when I lived across the street. They just don't build 'em like they used too.
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Considering that the gutt rehab work started on August 20 according to the What's New in Old North blog, work is happening very rapidly. I guess the Restoration Group found a fantastic contractor.
Say what happens if in the future developers want to build new in Old North after the 14th Mall is done? Is their a historic review area that encompasses the whole districts and requires them to follow standards similar to Soulard and build historic-like buildings?
Do you want to surround the old buildings in ONSL with similar architecture or something different? I think it would be interesting to have a Deconstructivist version of these old rowhomes.
Say what happens if in the future developers want to build new in Old North after the 14th Mall is done? Is their a historic review area that encompasses the whole districts and requires them to follow standards similar to Soulard and build historic-like buildings?
Do you want to surround the old buildings in ONSL with similar architecture or something different? I think it would be interesting to have a Deconstructivist version of these old rowhomes.
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Historic Deconstructivist Rowhouses. OK. Yeah, That could be cool... (or horrible).
I've thought that an architectural ruins park might be cool... Fill in mostly fallen buildings basements with dirt and leave (and tuckpoint) the corners sticking out of the ground to show the footprint once left. Add benches, trees and some sort of path. Kind of a Fallen Architecture Memorial, not sure it fits in anywhere here, but made me think of it.
I've thought that an architectural ruins park might be cool... Fill in mostly fallen buildings basements with dirt and leave (and tuckpoint) the corners sticking out of the ground to show the footprint once left. Add benches, trees and some sort of path. Kind of a Fallen Architecture Memorial, not sure it fits in anywhere here, but made me think of it.
umm, no. Sorry, not in this area. ONSL is similar to Soulard, and I think that new infill should match the old for the SAME reasons I'd advocate this policy in Lafayette Park. If you disagree, please visit Charleston SC. They have extremely stringent historic guidelines and it seems to have paid off. It's always ranked with New York and San Fransisco as being the best 3 places to visit. St. Louis should capitalize on its architecture. I would LOVE to see an entire neighborhood, remember we have plenty, to be ultra modern. I always thought the strip along Delmar between Union and Kingshighway would be perfect for new modern retail/condos. Keep ONSL in it's historical context. Remember too that "historic" structures always age well, contemporary ones usually don't.
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Let's say that ONSL, tomorrow, had every vacant lot filled with a structure. Whatever that infill was would dominate the style of the neighborhood, since there are more lots than houses currently on the whole. So, do we want a neighborhood of all faux history or buildings that recognize the architectural details of the old beauties that can attempt to have their own character and style as well?
If the neighborhood were constructed of all replicas, it would be obvious. It would probably resemble a second rate New Town, since the economics just aren't there now. Parts of the Gate District show the folly of trying to turn areas into architectural museums, with mullet houses abounding and shallowly pretending to be their older counterparts.
Don't get me wrong. I am a proponent of historic preservation. Places like Lafayette Square that have amazing and unique architecture should be saved and spared from any further demolition, but even there vacant lots should not be used for historic replicas in my opinion.
You can complement historic architecture well while at the same time modernizing a home. Look at the infill on Boyle and West Pine, for instance. It's all brick and at the same scale as the rest of the neighborhood, but it took a bulkier, more curvilinear look. Obviously modern, but fits in well, with a character all its own.
If the neighborhood were constructed of all replicas, it would be obvious. It would probably resemble a second rate New Town, since the economics just aren't there now. Parts of the Gate District show the folly of trying to turn areas into architectural museums, with mullet houses abounding and shallowly pretending to be their older counterparts.
Don't get me wrong. I am a proponent of historic preservation. Places like Lafayette Square that have amazing and unique architecture should be saved and spared from any further demolition, but even there vacant lots should not be used for historic replicas in my opinion.
You can complement historic architecture well while at the same time modernizing a home. Look at the infill on Boyle and West Pine, for instance. It's all brick and at the same scale as the rest of the neighborhood, but it took a bulkier, more curvilinear look. Obviously modern, but fits in well, with a character all its own.
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i think well designed modern (but highly urban) architecture would be fantastic in old north and it could be seen (and marketed) as the more creative, artsy, edgy twin of soulard. besides, i'd rather not risk what has happened in other areas near downtown outside of lafayette square and soulard with really clumsy historicism...i think that would be really unfortunate for old north.
Matt, what are the plans for future construction along 14th street south of the mall? It is mainly vacant, but the buildings that remain are commercial. I assume that they plan to continue the retail strip south, but then again, they built a residential unit on the Northeast corner of 14th and North Market.
Architecture standards more lax than Lafayette Square would be fine by me since the area has already lost so many buildings, especially to the south. A modern take on what was once there could look cool (or better than half-assed attempts at the old stuff) and help differentiate the area from Soulard.
As I mentioned pages back, incorporating more porches in new construction would really add to the bluesy French rivercity atmosphere. I can't count on my hands how many of my friends were blown away when I showed them the city. Most did not expect it to have so much character. We really need to play up the French connection and the blues and jazz. My friends who visited last week did not even know that St. Louis had a blues scene. St. Louis needs to be thought of as in the same category as Memphis and New Orleans, not Tulsa and Toledo.
Architecture standards more lax than Lafayette Square would be fine by me since the area has already lost so many buildings, especially to the south. A modern take on what was once there could look cool (or better than half-assed attempts at the old stuff) and help differentiate the area from Soulard.
As I mentioned pages back, incorporating more porches in new construction would really add to the bluesy French rivercity atmosphere. I can't count on my hands how many of my friends were blown away when I showed them the city. Most did not expect it to have so much character. We really need to play up the French connection and the blues and jazz. My friends who visited last week did not even know that St. Louis had a blues scene. St. Louis needs to be thought of as in the same category as Memphis and New Orleans, not Tulsa and Toledo.
Future plans are kind of unknown at this point. There has been so much effort put into just getting the renovations going that the only thought is that there will be some. The second round of financing for the commercial component doesn't even close until tentatively September 30. What is know is that future new construction will be built in an urban manner.
The neighborhood is getting ready to start work on design standards that will hopefully become ordinance. There is a design code now, but it has no enforcement mechanism. The new code will generally be written to enforce urban design. Things such as set back, size, proportions, some suggested materials, etc. It will very likely not be historic design codes. There is a lot of concern with not putting historic restrictions like Lafayette Square has because of the large amount of low income and elderly residents. The code will mainly be in place to prevent suburban development.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some modern architecture in the neighborhood. Done right it could make for a really cool area.
I really like the porches as well. Many of the buildings did have them, but were lost through the years.
The North Market Place Homes are being wrapped into the whole Crown Village effort, so the different developments should eventually take on a more cohesive look.
The neighborhood is getting ready to start work on design standards that will hopefully become ordinance. There is a design code now, but it has no enforcement mechanism. The new code will generally be written to enforce urban design. Things such as set back, size, proportions, some suggested materials, etc. It will very likely not be historic design codes. There is a lot of concern with not putting historic restrictions like Lafayette Square has because of the large amount of low income and elderly residents. The code will mainly be in place to prevent suburban development.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing some modern architecture in the neighborhood. Done right it could make for a really cool area.
I really like the porches as well. Many of the buildings did have them, but were lost through the years.
The North Market Place Homes are being wrapped into the whole Crown Village effort, so the different developments should eventually take on a more cohesive look.
I just posted another update on the New Old North blog.
Matt--I've been to the blog several times and posted comments but I must be doing something wrong. Anyway, great job on everything.
Old North is probably my favorite topic on this forum!
Old North is probably my favorite topic on this forum!
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^ Same here - haven't been able to post comments on the ONSL blog . . .
MattnSTL wrote:The neighborhood is getting ready to start work on design standards that will hopefully become ordinance.
Will this make ONSL the first neighborhood with enforceable form-based standards for urban design? Hopefully other neighborhoods will follow.
^We'll see how the process goes. We really want to include the community in all the decisions, so who knows how it will end up in the end.
If you want to post a comment, do it like normal. We have comment moderation on since it is an official organization blog. Sean Thomas or I then OK the comments. Sometimes it's not the quickest on our part, but I login pretty much daily now.
If you want to post a comment, do it like normal. We have comment moderation on since it is an official organization blog. Sean Thomas or I then OK the comments. Sometimes it's not the quickest on our part, but I login pretty much daily now.
Old North is a neighborhood that I've considered for my first home buy. But if I were a part of that community, I would want to see some mixture of infill in there. I like the historic stuff, but I just think its so hard to find modern contractors that can capture the uniqueness of the historic architecture, and eve the best stuff seems to fall short of the charm that the older structures have.
At the same time, the more modern looking structures can easily blend right in to a neighborhood, making it a very cool and unique nabe. I'd like to see St. Louis take steps forward in this regard. The gate district has already done some of this, especially with the Vivienne, but even those structures are using a brick exterior which I think doesn't go far enough.
At the same time, the more modern looking structures can easily blend right in to a neighborhood, making it a very cool and unique nabe. I'd like to see St. Louis take steps forward in this regard. The gate district has already done some of this, especially with the Vivienne, but even those structures are using a brick exterior which I think doesn't go far enough.
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Jax wrote:MattnSTL wrote:The neighborhood is getting ready to start work on design standards that will hopefully become ordinance.
Will this make ONSL the first neighborhood with enforceable form-based standards for urban design? Hopefully other neighborhoods will follow.
Any standards will have to be considered by both the city's Preservation Board and the Board of Aldermen, so the process will involve plenty of public input and plenty of opportunities to modify the standards. That's after neighborhood debate and making the Fifth Ward alderwoman comfortable enough with the standards to introduce them as an ordinance.
This will be a long process.
Ballpark Village, Bottle District, Park East Tower, etc. None of these bring as big a smile to my face as this here. All of those other projects are great, but this just seems so real(not because some of the others haven't lifted off yet). Yes, this work needs brick and concrete and wood and mortar just like all the others, but this seems to be all about the people and the community. A sincere thanks to everyone involved.
